Overall High-Achievers (non-academic, too)

[VisionaryMom]

My Disclaimer: This post is a high-brow problem. I'm aware of that. I'm also aware of how "brag-y" it sounds, but I'm using objective measures to assess DS. 

DS had a piece of art selected for a community-wide student art show. About 5-10% of the students at his school had pieces there. He is the high scorer on his soccer team. He ran his first foot race last year and placed seventh. He decided to train for the next ones (just sort of showed up the day of the first one) and placed 4th and then 2nd. He has a 5K coming up, and he's training for it now and working on improving what "slowed me down" in the last one. He's multiple grade levels ahead in both language and math, and he's well...cute. He has a gaggle of girls who follow him around and offer to do things like write his name on his paper for him! He's told me that all of the teachers tell him that he's "adorable," (confirmed, they all tell me that they think he's precious) and he hates that. "I'd rather be handsome." Oh, and he's - of his own initiation - planning a local event for kids for Earth Day (with my help, of course, but his ideas and plans).

So...he thinks he is the most awesome person in the world. Of course I love him dearly, but I see the beginnings of someone who could become unbearable. 

If you have a child who is like this, is there anything that you do to mitigate that tendency? A couple of weeks ago, someone was making fun of another child at soccer practice, and DS stepped right in and stood up for the other kid. Yay! I was really proud of him, especially given my previous concerns about his social acumen. The thing is that the other boys listened to him - no questions asked. His teacher says that he's definitely the leader of the class.

I spoke to an educational specialist just in passing after an event a couple of weeks ago, and he suggested putting DS in something that we think would challenge him. To be clear, I have 2 concerns. 1) He is developing an inflated view of himself. 2) I want him to learn how to handle challenge and even frustration in healthy, safe ways.

Would you put him in something else? He doesn't do anything with music, and that's a possibility. He has said that he wants to take karate. He also would like to build a robot from scratch, design a miniature farmhouse, and learn Spanish. (He took a few lessons when we were homeschooling and can recall what he learned pretty readily.)

[serenbat]

I spoke to an educational specialist just in passing after an event a couple of weeks ago, and he suggested putting DS in something that we think would challenge him.

I don't get this??? what was the context?

Is what he is doing not challenging for him?

There is a big difference between an academic "challenge" and doing something that is of interest such as music.

Why does you child need this "challenge"? What is it that you are trying to have your child gain?

it is not clear from you post 

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by serenbat 
I don't get this??? what was the context?

Is what he is doing not challenging for him?

There is a big difference between an academic "challenge" and doing something that is of interest such as music.

Why does you child need this "challenge"? What is it that you are trying to have your child gain?

it is not clear from you post 

No, what he's doing isn't a challenge. He obviously is working toward 1st place in his races. He enjoys soccer, but he's not really put in any effort to be the top scorer. His art teacher says that he has an "intuitive understanding" for how to draw. His classroom teacher has pulled him back from answering questions and said that when he was out sick for a week, she had a really hard time getting anyone else to answer because he does so much and that one kid said, "I can't wait until [DS] is back."

I want him to learn how to handle doing something that doesn't come naturally to him while he's small, and it's safe. Everything that he's doing comes very naturally to him. While it feels great at the time (he's always the kid being rewarded...), I want over the long-term to teach him how to work for something. I don't want to enroll him in something to "teach humility," which I've known parents of gifted children to do. I'm not looking for something that he's likely to fail at doing. I'm just looking for something that he may have to have some concentration and effort to do well. 

I don't think the concept is foreign. It's commonly discussed as an issue with gifted children. I've just never seen anything really address how to deal with the problem, just that it can become a problem. The specialist I spoke to is one of the co-authors of Parent's Guide to Gifted Children. He spoke with DS, and he really would like us to bring him in for formal testing. We may, but we probably won't do so for a while.

I experienced some of what DS is, and it wasn't until graduate school that a class or activity ever really challenged me. That was the worst time to learn those lessons, and it was rough.

[physmom]

I'm not sure how old your son is, but could you get him involved in volunteer work, maybe something like a soup kitchen?  It might not be challenging in the academic sense but it could help him to realize that the world a bigger place than just winning races and good grades.  I volunteered at a local church program all the way until I graduated high school and it really grounded me.  There were some really poor kids there and it was a challenge helping them when they didn't always have the best family life. 

[loraxc]

Well...if everything is a snap for him at school, too, it would seem that one answer would be to get some work that challenges him more, no? My DD is precocious in just academics and art (she's actually pretty bad at physical stuff) and even with that we feel like she def. needs this balance/challenge you're referring to. I consider it a real issue that she hasn't gotten anything wrong on her schoolwork all year.

Other than that, I do think an instrument is a good idea. I also like the volunteering idea.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by loraxc 

Well...if everything is a snap for him at school, too, it would seem that one answer would be to get some work that challenges him more, no? My DD is precocious in just academics and art (she's actually pretty bad at physical stuff) and even with that we feel like she def. needs this balance/challenge you're referring to. I consider it a real issue that she hasn't gotten anything wrong on her schoolwork all year.

Other than that, I do think an instrument is a good idea. I also like the volunteering idea.

I wish we could get harder academic work. He's accelerated in reading. It's weird because at the beginning of K, he couldn't read more than a handful of words. He knew his letters, sounds, etc., but he didn't care to read beyond that. (He often said, "Why do I need to read? I like numbers." lol) Then, in mid-November, it clicked, and he started reading. He was reading at a first-grade level by early December and then tested at a 2nd grade level at the end of January. So he's in a 1st grade reading group, but now he's moved beyond that group and is probably nearing a 3rd grade reading level. So I don't know what I think of his reading, other than that it's been an uneven development.

We do lots of math at home - working with fractions, equations, etc. He's still "learning" to count to 20 and add single-digit numbers at school. They're very hesitant to accelerate him. His teacher is really for it, but the administrators won't approve. DH & I are going to run an after-school program for advanced math kids next year, which they've approved. Their librarian was the elementary gifted teacher (before that position was cut), and she's open to doing a pull-out program, even if it means no break because she liked running the gifted program better (shockingly, that's why it's her certification area!). So far, though, we haven't gotten a green light on doing that. 

We're also open to paying for EPGY or some other program for him, though I don't know how the school would feel about the precedent that sets to provide that option for kids whose parents can't afford it. Heck, I'd be fine with him having a shortened day and just doing a math curriculum at home. 

Our family does a good bit of volunteering, but I'm thinking that maybe I could guide DS to something that *he* could do on his own or with us supervising, rather than the kids being the tag alongs with our projects.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by physmom 

I'm not sure how old your son is, but could you get him involved in volunteer work, maybe something like a soup kitchen?  It might not be challenging in the academic sense but it could help him to realize that the world a bigger place than just winning races and good grades.  I volunteered at a local church program all the way until I graduated high school and it really grounded me.  There were some really poor kids there and it was a challenge helping them when they didn't always have the best family life. 

This would be my suggestion....depending on how old he is.

Reaching outside your comfort and ability zone is good for everyone and really helps people (kids and adults) keep a worldview and build a view of the differences in people and their situations, abilities, and circumstances.

Tutoring, soup kitchen, Habitat for Humanity, English Language Learner tutoring, Hospital Peer visitor (visit sick kids and play with them), peer buddy ( child is paired with a child with special needs), etc are all good  volunteering situations.

I would also maybe pick one weekend a month to explore something new-- that he may or may not be good at. Robotics, museum lectures, piano or violin lessons, yoga, zoo classes, etc.

I would also try to get the school to challenge him- even if he is ahead of his grade, if it comes really easy- he still needs to learn study skills/writing skills/etc that will benefit him later in life when he *may* be challenged more and find it an interesting experience.

** edited to add** looks like he is younger (K? 1st?). Push the school if you need to. There is no reason they can not supplement math and reading at a lower Elem. level.

As for the running, not many little kids run 5K. He may (and probably will) find more competition as he gets older (middle school, etc).

Also maybe look for clubs that he can get involved in: Chess, Odessy of the Mind, Reading Club, Drama, Readers Theater, etc.

Any groups that are multi-age may also help him see some older kids that are more advanced and give him something to strive for-- as well as help him see outside of his agemate comparisons.

[JessBB]

Ok, I have never actually posted in the forum but I have a bit of a unique perspective... as a kid, I was a "star." Top academically, also socially... just well rounded. If I wasn't good at something (like running) I would work at it until I was, if not the best, good enough to be considered good. My parents never sought out challenges or academic differentiation for me and I feel like I was done a bit of a disservice.  My brother was the same way, if not more so and has a lot of carryover issues into adulthood because lo and behold, things are hard now. As for me, I was the classic overpraised gifted child, when I got to college and couldn't get A's in my sleep, I was adrift and took years to get back on track...and the same thing happened *again* in grad school. All this by way of saying you should really make your child stretch, resiliency is learned and I think it is the MOST important trait to be a successful adult, far more so than IQ or talent.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by JessBB 

My parents never sought out challenges or academic differentiation for me and I feel like I was done a bit of a disservice. 

.... when I got to college and couldn't get A's in my sleep, I was adrift and took years to get back on track...and the same thing happened *again* in grad school. All this by way of saying you should really make your child stretch, resiliency is learned and I think it is the MOST important trait to be a successful adult, far more so than IQ or talent.

This part could have been written about my "gifted as young person" husband. He has had a delayed adolescence of sorts because he wasn't challenged at all until college.. and then he flubbed. It took him years to get back on track and deal with the world properly.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by physmom 

I'm not sure how old your son is, but could you get him involved in volunteer work, maybe something like a soup kitchen? 

This was my first thought too.

I have a child is who also good at everything. I don't talk about her much because it does just sound like bragging!  She's gifted, athletic, and talented. She's also pretty. She's 12 and just started her own business. The kid is amazing.

BUT she is a truly nice person. In her case, having a sibling with special needs has kept life pretty grounded and not just about how wonderful she is. And kept our families conversations about things other than what a perfect child she is. And kept our family outings about things other than achievement. We like to spend time in nature together. 

Your guy is really young, and not everything about his growing up has to happen right now. I do think that community service is VERY important, but his options are most likely limited right now. I'd keep on eye on them as he is getting older, and make time for service a priority as he hits those middle school years where the kids really have so many options for what to do, and are experimenting with their identity.

[Galatea]

Subbing bc we have the same problems.  For me, as an adult, what has worked is trying totally new things like running, yoga, entrepreneurship.  I plan to tell my kids explicitly what took me 33 years to learn: "B/c you are bright, you will likely be good at many things, but some things may not come instantly, and that is okay, and not a sign that you are not 'smart.'  Your intelligence will also help you to learn new things quickly, but you will still have to practice, stretch yourself, and take risks, and needing to do so, or risk failure, is not evidence of failure."

[Freeman]

Volunteering to help children w/ special needs immediately came to mind here, too. Also, most people are eventually challenged academically, if they keep pursuing academics at higher levels (i.e., post-grad, etc.) It's important for a child to realize that these challenges are an opportunity to learn and grow so that he doesn't feel shocked the first time he doesn't ace something.

[serenbat]

He enjoys soccer, but he's not really put in any effort to be the top scorer. His art teacher says that he has an "intuitive understanding" for how to draw.

I see no problems here- so what if he puts no effort into a top scorer? Isn't it more about pleasure? It does not need to be a challenge in any way-IMO Just because he pushed himself for a foot race does not make it the same. As for the art-that's a good thing! Why would that need to be challenged?

Pleasurable activities -IMO need only be challenged from within and for self gratification.

In one way you say you don't want him to be -

developing an inflated view of himself

BUT you seem to see no challenge if he is not pushing himself-I'm very confused by this notion.

Quote:

I want him to learn how to handle doing something that doesn't come naturally to him while he's small, and it's safe. Everything that he's doing comes very naturally to him. While it feels great at the time (he's always the kid being rewarded...), I want over the long-term to teach him how to work for something.

Is this academic of pleasurable pursuits-hobby-interest?

Things coming naturally IMO are a good thing in many cases (NON-academic) and should be fostered. I would only seek academic challenges and let the "others" come as they do.

Some "challenges" you are saying seem to really come across as a push. I'm sure you don't mean that but it comes across as that.

Taking up a musical program should first be for pleasure--------way down the road the challenge comes from the enjoyment and the personal challenge from within, not from a teacher or a parent. Many children are turned off by a teacher that "challenges" or a parent that wants something that child may not want.

Just because it wasn't until grad school for for you does not mean it will be the same for you child.

As the other posters have said, it seems to be a real academic issue that first needs to be looked into to give more challenge from the school.

If you are concerned about him getting the rewards all the time you could opt him out of certain programs so that he would not be getting them in the first place.

We don't do any programs that give rewards for that reason and we are a family that detests sports competitions, we don't do organized sports at all!

No where do you say how your child feels----is he unhappy? Is he complaining? If so, regarding school, there a many things to be done in that area but as far as the other's, he seems very young and should be finding he own way--again, IMO and how we raise our children.

[Tjej]

I think a really accessible thing would be volunteering with shut-ins or children with special needs.  Although it doesn't provide too much on the challenge aspect, when you love all kinds of people, it ends up harder to have a big head.  As far as challenge - it sounds like you are working on getting things in place for math, and playing an instrument is always a good thing to be able to do (although if he is as natural as you say then it likely won't be that hard for him either).

Tjej

[whatsnextmom]

I always think it's good for a kid to be in activities where they are either not "the best" or there really is no "best." This can be harder to find in the younger ages. I have found that what sets apart gifted kids in this age is their unusual ability to focus. That focus pulls up their ability in everything... even stuff they aren't passionate or truely gifted in. As they age though, their peers do catch up in focusing ability and coupled with individual passions makes it not so easy for gifted kids to always be on top in everything. Plus, they start to congregate and the talent pool gets larger. Instead of being that "one" kid in school who can draw, you start taking art classes with 20 kids who are all the top at their schools. Suddenly, you aren't such a stand-out.

We've found high-end multi-aged/multi-level activities helpful in keeping feet on the ground. For example, both my kids do theatre where there really isn't a "best" only a "right for this particular role." Plus, their competition is not those of their age but those of their size/type. Because they are naturally talented and love it, we don't have them in their school drama programs where they are overly heralded. Instead they are part of a competitive youth theatre and in professional theatre. It evens the playing field more. Both play instruments and while they did seem quite talented when they were little (that focus I was talking about,) they are pretty much just average now that their interest has wained. My DD was considered a gifted artist when she was younger but as a teenager, she's nothing compared to the kids who developed a passion for it and continued to seek training. Both are naturally atheletic but they are both much younger than their schoolmates and competing with kids that have a full year or more muscle growth makes them more 3rd places than 1st's. They still do well at pretty much everything but only in the areas they are passionate about do they continue to be stand-outs.

Edited by whatsnextmom - 3/28/11 at 10:35am

[whatsnextmom]

I like the suggestion of volunteer work. I think it's great for all kids. However, I wouldn't be hesitant on tutoring. Gifted kids are often not good at it. They don't learn like other kids and so really have no idea how to teach them. My own DD was incredibly impatient when put in tutoring roles though middle school. She's still not a particularly good teacher but she's at least patient and more understanding to the struggles of others academically. My DS who is both gifted and has some mild learning disabilities is much, much better at tutoring.
 

Originally Posted by KCMichigan 

This would be my suggestion....depending on how old he is.

Reaching outside your comfort and ability zone is good for everyone and really helps people (kids and adults) keep a worldview and build a view of the differences in people and their situations, abilities, and circumstances.

Tutoring, soup kitchen, Habitat for Humanity, English Language Learner tutoring, Hospital Peer visitor (visit sick kids and play with them), peer buddy ( child is paired with a child with special needs), etc are all good  volunteering situations.

I would also maybe pick one weekend a month to explore something new-- that he may or may not be good at. Robotics, museum lectures, piano or violin lessons, yoga, zoo classes, etc.

I would also try to get the school to challenge him- even if he is ahead of his grade, if it comes really easy- he still needs to learn study skills/writing skills/etc that will benefit him later in life when he *may* be challenged more and find it an interesting experience.

** edited to add** looks like he is younger (K? 1st?). Push the school if you need to. There is no reason they can not supplement math and reading at a lower Elem. level.

As for the running, not many little kids run 5K. He may (and probably will) find more competition as he gets older (middle school, etc).

Also maybe look for clubs that he can get involved in: Chess, Odessy of the Mind, Reading Club, Drama, Readers Theater, etc.

Any groups that are multi-age may also help him see some older kids that are more advanced and give him something to strive for-- as well as help him see outside of his agemate comparisons.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

I always think it's good for a kid to be in activities where they are either not "the best" or there really is no "best." This can be harder to find in the younger ages. I have found that what sets apart gifted kids in this age is their unusual ability to focus. That focus pulls up their ability in everything... even stuff they aren't passionate or truely gifted in. As they age though, their peers do catch up in focusing ability and coupled with individual passions makes it not so easy for gifted kids to always be on top in everything. Plus, they start to congregate and the talent pool gets larger. Instead of being that "one" kid in school who can draw, you start taking art classes with 20 kids who are all the top at their schools. Suddenly, you aren't such a stand-out.

We've found high-end multi-aged/multi-level activities helpful in keeping feet on the ground. For example, both my kids do theatre where there really isn't a "best" only a "right for this particular role." Plus, their competition is not those of their age but those of their size/type. Both play instruments and while they did seem quite talented when they were little (that focus I was talking about,) they are pretty much just average now that their interest has wained. My DD was considered a gifted artist when she was younger but as a teenager, she's nothing compared to the kids who developed a passion for it. In the areas they are passionate about, they continue to be stand-outs. They always land on the hide side of the bell curve. They just figured out long ago that the world is big and filled with people more capable, passionate and educated than yourself.

This. 

I also really agree that having a broad sense of the world, and openness to difference, is a prerequisite to grace.  What is charming to five and six year olds may or may not be charming to older kids :). 

Musical instruments are a great approach, in that even a gifted artist has to work at it.

All this by way of saying you should really make your child stretch, resiliency is learned and I think it is the MOST important trait to be a successful adult, far more so than IQ or talent. 

I agree, resilience is so important.

[LynnS6]

How old is he?

Developmentally, 5-6 year olds often think they're the best at everything. Now in your ds' case, it sounds like a lot of it is true. But, I wouldn't worry too much until he's a few years older. Remember the threads about 7 year olds suddenly saying "I'm not good at anything?" Well, that's partly because developmentally they've moved out of the "I'm great at everything" mode and have realized their own limitations. It can lead to a mini existential crisis for a child who has seen themselves at good at everything to realize that they're not!

[Bird Girl]

I do find that instrument instruction helps gifted kids face perfectionism issues and develop humility. It doesn't really matter whether they start with musical talent or not. My kids take Suzuki lessons, and I'm a big fan of the non-competitive, nurturing philosophy, but as with Montessori education, many, many people claim to be "Suzuki trained" or "Suzuki influenced" and the individual teacher or program makes all the difference.

[NewBeginnings1]

Your kid sounds a lot like me when I was little, but with better social skills. Even though you may be able to challenge him in other ways, he'll most likely focus on the areas where he excels and garners the most praise. Being challenged, without being guided by a parent, would have made me try harder at the things I did best. 

I think that talking with him is the best way to address his need for humility. When I look back on why I tried so hard in sports and school, I think it was because success made me feel better about myself. Because people knew that I was a leader, smart, athletic, and a good person, a could hold my head up high when I felt socially awkward. Does he recognize or acknowledge other children's abilities and achievements? Be sure to tell him that you're proud of all that he is doing, but no amount of accomplishments or failures will change your love for him. Emphasize character over the accomplishment. Work on his ability to initiate compliments as well as receive them humbly. Try to deter him from boasting of his accomplishments too frequently.

You've got a good kid on your hands. Best of luck.