Need help with effective discipline for 8yo boy

[heathera1978]

I'm at my wits end with my 8 yr old son.  We've tried everything we know of for effective discipline for him.  He is ADHD & ODD and we have been told by all the doctor's that disiplining him will be difficult because he tunes things out and doesn't attach emotionally to objects.

Our latest battle is sneaking food into his room.  We're tried buying healthy snacks and telling him that he can have them if he gets hungry, all he needs to do is ask.  We are constantly finding food remains in his room along with drink bottles.  We do not let him have liquids at night because he still wets the bed.  We've tried taking toys away, taking privledges away, everything we can think of.  We've resorted to having to use those window alarms on the cabinets and fridge doors to alert us when he's into something. 

We've talked to him until we are blue in the face but he has learned how to tune us out. 

Anyone have any suggestions?????

[NellieKatz]

Where is he getting the food and drink bottles that you find in his room? I only ask because you say "We tried buying healthy snacks..." so it sounds like he is sneaking in something unhealthy. Maybe you can clarify.

Also, he's 8 years old now, so why does he have to ask? If you have nothing but healthy food and drink around, and he's hungry for some, why can't he just go and get it?

Maybe he's just reacting to the control? The more controlling and punitive I get (which is less & less these days, thankfully), the more "bad" my son's behavior gets. He's real bright and very sensitive, and if he were in school he's probably be diagnosed with all sorts of "disorders" because, well, he doesn't suffer nonsense very well.  :-) 

[heathera1978]

In the beginning he was getting things from the kitchen and from the refridgerator.  When we realized what was going on, we started putting things in the cabinets and checking his room.  We now have to do a sweep of the kitchen every night.  Some of the food we can keep locked up but the things in the fridge are a different story.

I want him to ask because I want to monitor what he is eating especially if we are getting close to meal time.  Other than that I don't care if he has healthy snacks.  Also, because he is still wetting the bed, we have been advised by the doctor not to give him anything to drink 2 hours before bed.

He sneaks everything, healthy and unhealthy.  We bought apples and put them in a bowl where he could reach them and we found candy wrappers in his room. 

I think it is a control thing, he is very headstrong, and directed in the right direction it could be a very powerful thing.  He is a bright kid, does well in school, etc.  He doesn't handle control of things really well.  We've tried letting him have a lot more (age appropriate) responsibility and it has not worked well. 

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Does he wet the bed even if he doesn't have liquids within two hours of bedtime? If so, I would drop that requirement if its not working. The doctor doesn't know your child as well as you do or what is going to work for your child as well as you.

If you think that the food issue really is important enough that you want to continue to try to control this, maybe a positive instead of punitive approach would work better. Can you incorporate a room clean in the evening as part of your bedtime ritual? If his room is free of food and is clean, he earns a treat. If it is not, if it has food remains in it or whatever, then it would be assumed he has already had his treat. I would keep those special treats locked up. And emphasize that it really is his choice. He can forego his special treat if he wants to by choosing to have other foods in his room without asking.

From my work with ODD kids (and I've only worked with a few), it seemed most important to let them make their own choices. Even bad choices. As soon as they smelled control, they just had to do what was prohibited. Even if it meant shooting themselves in the foot.

[NellieKatz]

I know that in our society it's conventional wisdom that meal times have to be a certain way, but I'd urge you to just stock the house with healthy stuff and ditch the rules about what he eats when. It sounds like all the controlling is just making everybody crazy. Have you ever asked yourself why all of it's necessary? Why not just drop it? So what if he fills up on apples to the extent that he can't eat everything you give him at dinner? (please tell me you don't make him finish his supper). Food is about nutrition and full-ness. Meals are about gathering together around food to enjoy each other's company, talk, catch up on the day, and to eat what's served to us if we're hungry, or to decline it politely if we're not. Right?

I think that too much food control is just asking for trouble, not only behaviorally but with him not ever learning to SELF-regulate (since you seem to be doing it for him). As long as over the course of a week he is getting various types of foods that he needs into his body, and keeping bad stuff OUT (and by "bad" I mean stuff like artifical food colorings and other additives that can alter kids' behavior, high fructose corn syrup, etc.)

I know it's easy to forget that as they grow older. Sometimes I catch myself doing things that I "always did that way" with my son even when he was little, and then sort of suddenly realize that he's 8 now and we ought to do some things differently....that he can (and should) be taking on more & more responsibility.

Just think of what might happen if nobody said a thing to him about food any more. It could be interesting! (and positive)  :-)

(This is probably shedding a little light onto your own attitudes about food and control in the process, too. Happens to us all the time.)

Originally Posted by heathera1978 

I want him to ask because I want to monitor what he is eating especially if we are getting close to meal time. 

[joensally]

If he has been diagnosed with ODD by a qualified practitioner through a thorough diagnostic process, what services are you accessing?  Standard protocol for ODD includes family therapy and parent coaching in the specific strategies that work for an individual child's ODD behaviours.

I'm not at all surprised that a child with ODD is reacting this way to these kinds of restrictions.  If you really don't want him to have candy, don't have ANY in the house.  Unfortunately, it sounds like you're now in an entrenched engagement on this issue (his opposition has been triggered).  It will likely take a lot of work to change.  I would highly recommend seeking help from a professional experienced with ODD and who supports your general parenting philosophies.

I also agree not to worry about the liquids before bed issue.  Is he in some kind of absorbent pant at night?  That, in combination with a hospital pad layer can work.  This is a physiological issue and his body and brain just haven't developed communication on this yet - they will.  If you layer the bed, it's short work in the middle of the night (full waterproof fitted sheet, regular fitted sheet, hospital pad, regular fitted sheet, plus a spare comforter).  Then if he wets, you or he strip the top layer and possibly comforter, and he goes back to bed in a dry, clean bed. 

Pick your battles, because he's not cogntively able to pick his at this point in his development.

[mom2grrls]

Also, because he is still wetting the bed, we have been advised by the doctor not to give him anything to drink 2 hours before bed.>>>>>

Older children do not wet the bed b/c of drinking 2 hrs. w/in bedtime.  My son recently stopped wetting overnight(he's 6, almost 7) and it did not matter whether he had a drink of water right before bed or 2 hrs. before, he just sleeps deeply.  His body just needed time.  He wore a pull up or something similar and had a waterproof cover on the mattress.  I agree with the other posters, give him control over his eating, children are good at regulating food intake in general when not given unnecessary restrictions.

[Alyantavid]

I'd forget about the no drinking at night thing right now.  If he's wetting the bed at 8, limiting his liquid isn't going to make any difference.

If you know it's a control thing, stop fighting him.  Tell him he can eat whatever he wants whenever he wants it as long as it stays in the kitchen.  And only bring things into the house that you're ok with him eating.  Give him some freedom.  Is it really a big deal if he has an apple right before dinner?

[Marsupialmom]

As a person that bed wet until 10 years of age, please, please, please, I beg of you ignore the doctor's advice about no drinking two hours before bed time!!  

Eliminate caffine drinks (through out the day).  If you can't make them a morning early afternoon treat.  None after 4ish.  

Watch out for dairy sensitivity. 

Encourage him to water, drink through out the day.  

But eliminating drink two hours before bed only leaves him thirsty and sneaking drinks.  I use to go to the bathroom and drink out of the sink faucet.  I was thirsty.  I think watering more in the day would have helped.  

This is very old unfounded advice.  

I agree with if you don't want him eating it, don't bring it in the house.

But --- I can understand the limit of a half hour before diner served no snacks for an 8 year old.  Noticed I said SERVED.  My dh and I have butted heads a time or to about this.  He will start diner and it take 1 to 1.5 hours to cook....he will nibble a little while cooking but wasn't allowing snacks for the kids.  A few times he didn't adjust for the kids age. When my kids were smaller, we would stop them to snack so they wouldn't run into "I'm so hungry and I can't wait." You might want to start doing this if their is a gap between meals/snack time for family eating.  Sometimes this meant stopping play, my kids seem to at times get so engrossed they ignored signals until they were way pasted negotiation and holding on for a bit.  

I agree with all food eaten in kitchen/dining room with as little restriction as possible.  We sit down to eat and don't take it into the bedrooms.  This prevents choking and bugs.  This is reasonable.  Having one spot to eat prevents over eating while in front of the tv or computer. 

[heathera1978]

Thank you for all the advice!

We have noticed that even through he is in a pull up he still wets outside of it even after going to the bathroom right before bed if he has had something to drink right before bed.  If we limit what he drinks before bed then this doesn't happen.  If he has been outside playing hard then we will let him drink whatever water he wants because we do not want him to get dehydrated. 

We do not expect him to finish his plate but we do expect him to sit at the table with the rest of the family because it is an opportunity for everyone to catch up on the days activities and spend time together.  If he is not eating with us then he is fidgity and disruptive to the point it's unbearable.  We do not give him soda except for the RARE occasion of getting a Sprite.  Normally he drinks water or milk and has a juice box at lunch (I know they're not the healthiest but he wants to be like his friends). 

We did have a break through this morning.  While we were getting ready to leave for the day he told me he was hungry and wanted something to eat before breakfast.  I gave him options to pick from and let him choose what to eat before breakfast.  He does get 2 snacks at school and we tend to eat dinner pretty early.