Well, gee, why didnt you say in the beginning that he could have seen porn while you were istting in the livingroom watching it?
Actually, I did say that it was apparent that he SAW it. Not that he was abused. But SAW it.
And you answered with the bit of info that you exposed him to it.
Editing b/c it must have com across harshly when it was my intention to just point it out. Not jump on the OP.
I didn't mention it because to me it had nothing to do with him and the dog situation. What he saw on TV could have been related to the Barbie incident, which was over a year ago and was dealt with properly (therapy, pediatrician). It's funny how people start digging through threads to revisit old drama.
If the Barbie thing happened last month, then this month the dog thing, ok, yes I would see people's point. But when so much time has elapsed between incidents, AND he has been seen regularly by trained professionals, I'm inclined to think that the dog thing is not sexual and is not related to the barbie thing.
It wasn't porn, ftr, I was just thinking of R-rated movies. I'm quite definite about the fact that I have never watched any kind of movie where dogs and people "interacted" like that!
I'm sure I will get beaten up all over again for this, but when we were getting him out of teh bath tonight he made like he was going to the dog to do it again, and when I told him to stop he laughed and said, "I can't let the dog lick me? Can I let the dog poop on me? Can she do a fart on me? If she bites my pee pee off I'll put her in timeout and she'll cry." I have no idea what *that* little monologue meant, exactly, but it didn't sound sexual. I called the ped's office and asked for their soonest appt (just in case, since this is obviously still an issue) and when they asked what it was for and I told them, the nurse actually LAUGHED at me, and said, "You'll survive the weekend, Mom." And asked me if it was my first boy. grrrrrrrrrrr.
I don't understand the discrepancy between the responses I get on MDC and the responses I get IRL. I have nothing to hide. It's very frustrating.
Well, gee, why didnt you say in the beginning that he could have seen porn while you were istting in the livingroom watching it?
Actually, I did say that it was apparent that he SAW it. Not that he was abused. But SAW it.
And you answered with the bit of info that you exposed him to it.
So, I guess I was right.
.
What would YOU say to someone who said that their 2 year old son performed accurate sexual posistioning, including removing both the dolls clothes and his own, in conjunction with that same person saying that this same child has a dog licking their penis.
And why would we want to see your son crying and holding onto your leg? That is just ridiculous. Your not 8 years old. I have no idea why you thought that was an acceptable thing to say.
Well, gee, why didnt you say in the beginning that he could have seen porn while you were istting in the livingroom watching
Wow, this is off the chain. Freakin' HATEFUL!
I don't understand the discrepancy between the responses I get on MDC and the responses I get IRL. I have nothing to hide. It's very frustrating.
The discrepancy is likely because the receptionist got just a snapshot of your life. Did you say, "I caught my son letting our dog lick his penis repeatedly and now he's still talking about it?" or did you go over the monologue, which by itself just sounds like a silly thing that a preschooler may say? What long-time posters here have is a long, sordid history of some really bad decisions with efforts in between to right the problems. I do think that you love your children and that you want to do what's right by them. I honestly think that you're not equipped to do that right now. I don't think that means your children should go into foster care, but I do think that if you could remove some of your disdain for social workers (who were only doing their *jobs* when they followed up on your mom's complaint), then perhaps you could see that your family could benefit from some of the things that social services can offer.
You seem to want to become stable, but you don't stay in one place more than a few months at a time. That's not stability. It's not good for your children. You need a realistic plan that you can follow through on.
You've said that your son is seeing people and has been, but you said a few months ago that you'd moved 3 hours away from your parents, which is where you used to live, right? So, are you driving your son 3 hours to see a pediatrician, a therapist, and other specialists? Did you move *back* to the place where you had so many problems before? Those are the kinds of questions that people here ask ourselves, and for some people, that comes out as anger at you for continuing to put your kids through more upheaval.
The discrepancy is likely because the receptionist got just a snapshot of your life. Did you say, "I caught my son letting our dog lick his penis repeatedly and now he's still talking about it?" or did you go over the monologue, which by itself just sounds like a silly thing that a preschooler may say?
I was talking about overall, not just the receptionist. My exact words to her, "I'm very concerned about some inappropriate behavior with my three year old. I'm not sure if it's sexual or not, but it concerns me because we have had issues in the past with this.' I then told her what he had done, skipping the 3 yr old monologue. But that comment was more about the overall vibe I get from people IRL vs here.
What long-time posters here have is a long, sordid history of some really bad decisions with efforts in between to right the problems. I do think that you love your children and that you want to do what's right by them. I honestly think that you're not equipped to do that right now. I don't think that means your children should go into foster care, but I do think that if you could remove some of your disdain for social workers (who were only doing their *jobs* when they followed up on your mom's complaint), then perhaps you could see that your family could benefit from some of the things that social services can offer.
What services would those be? I'm not being snarky, I'm being serious. So far, I have obtained (of my own accord)
food stamps (flame away, I don't care, DP works 2 jobs and I work 1 and we still can use the help)
medicaid for the childre to access medical care, including mental health services.
play therapy for ds
occupational therapy for ds (he goes for another OT eval monday)
special ed services/eval/support through the public schools for ds (currently in diagnostic classroom with full time psychologist and behaviorist)
therapy for myself and for DP and I together. I did this for myself when dd was about 2 months old and I realized I had no feelings about her. It terrified me. I called every place in the phone book til I got someone to listen to me. It has been a lifesaver. I love her so much now. I"m about to cry just writing this because therapy and my therapist in particular has done SO SO SO much for me I can't even being to explain.
Psychiatrist for myself (zoloft, for PTSD and PPD)
neuropsych for ds (Asperger's dx)
developmental ped for ds
WIC for the kids and myself
In addition I take my children to places and events that not only put them in contact with caring and experience adults but also give them new experiences. like the farmer's market, story time at the library, family night at the beach or city park, arts and crafts at the book store, the "reading bus" a special preschool program they have here.
Is there some other resource social services can offer me that anyone with reasonable intelligence and motivation can't locate on their own?
You seem to want to become stable, but you don't stay in one place more than a few months at a time. That's not stability. It's not good for your children. You need a realistic plan that you can follow through on.
We were in the same place and were doing alright until I stupidly (as people here on MDC said!!) moved back in with my mother, with her subsequently calling CPS on me. That led to us *temporarily* moving away for about 6 weeks. That had to be done for my kids' safety. She was stalking us.
I'm sure I will get beaten up all over again for this, but when we were getting him out of teh bath tonight he made like he was going to the dog to do it again, and when I told him to stop he laughed and said, "I can't let the dog lick me? Can I let the dog poop on me? Can she do a fart on me? If she bites my pee pee off I'll put her in timeout and she'll cry." I have no idea what *that* little monologue meant, exactly, but it didn't sound sexual.
I would take this as a sign that he is processing the new information you and the therapist presented him with and is working through the experience with the dog and with your responses to it in a developmentally appropriate way. It is awesome that you were right there with him when he tried it again.
That's what I mean about "line of sight"...if you are there, then you can have not only a window into what is going on but also can help to mold and direct the experience in a natural, fluid way--instead of "catching" him at something after the fact and trying to make sense of it from that place.
By the way the way you explain this latest bathtub incident it does not personally strike me as sexually reactive/predatory...I mean, does it strike you that way? Because to me, the poop on me fart on me bite me and go to time out bit sounds really normative and indicative that he is indeed a member of the 3/4 age group more than anything else...I don't know that I would bring him to the ped over this latest incident...esp if you are already addressed it in session work with the therapist. personally I would just (ok third time in this thread I am saying this, sorry so redundant) keep him under your wing and supervised and keep up with the therapy.
I would take this as a sign that he is processing the new information you and the therapist presented him with and is working through the experience with the dog and with your responses to it in a developmentally appropriate way. It is awesome that you were right there with him when he tried it again.
That's what I mean about "line of sight"...if you are there, then you can have not only a window into what is going on but also can help to mold and direct the experience in a natural, fluid way--instead of "catching" him at something after the fact and trying to make sense of it from that place.
By the way the way you explain this latest bathtub incident it does not personally strike me as sexually reactive/predatory...I mean, does it strike you that way? Because to me, the poop on me fart on me bite me and go to time out bit sounds really normative and indicative that he is indeed a member of the 3/4 age group more than anything else...I don't know that I would bring him to the ped over this latest incident...esp if you are already addressed it in session work with the therapist. personally I would just (ok third time in this thread I am saying this, sorry so redundant) keep him under your wing and supervised and keep up with the therapy.
Junipermoon, this *the most helpful* post in this entire thread. your explanation makes perfect sense as far as addressing it while it is happening vs after it's already happened.
Junipermoon, this *the most helpful* post in this entire thread. your explanation makes perfect sense as far as addressing it while it is happening vs after it's already happened.
I would highly second this -- especially if he's on the autism spectrum (or even close), making connections about socially acceptable behavior might be a bit harder for him. He's also going to need a fair amount of repetition. Remember, 3-4 year olds don't learn too many things the first time around.
For any child whose under the age of about 5 or 6, addressing issues while something is happening is much better than after the fact (OK, even for older kids). The one exception is, of course, when they're in the middle of a meltdown, when it's impossible to address anything.
Junipermoon, this *the most helpful* post in this entire thread. your explanation makes perfect sense as far as addressing it while it is happening vs after it's already happened.
I was thinking the same thing. You know what OP, just big, big hugs to you and your babies.
Line of sight supervision, while difficult, is in everyone's best interest. I strongly agree with Junipermoon. It's a tool that foster parents, like myself, use to prevent things from happening and to help the child navigate appropriately in the world.
I also wouldn't take him to the ped over this last incident. I agree that it seemed pretty typical for the age. In fact I think that could re-inforce the behavior by giving it too much attention. Kids often do things because it gets a big reaction out of you.
nak
Just a thought to the OP. It is not uncommon or unheard of for 11 or 12 yr olds to sexually abusive younger kids, esp if the younger child is special needs. Am I saying that that is happening or has happened? No. I dont have enough info to come to that conclusion. I do have a friend, though, who grew up in a neighborhood like what you are describing and was sexually abused by an older child. The older child's family was family friends w/ my friend's family and her parents trusted him to care for her when they went out and played in large groups of kids as you described. He obviously didn't. I knew a woman a few yrs back who's job was to be a lawyer for kids, usually around 12-15 yrs old, who were accused of sexually abusing younger children. Some were innocent. Many weren't.
Again, Im not sayin this is happening. You, OP, probably even know this. I just feel that I would be remiss if I did not say it.
As for the original issue, I personally think it sounds like iy hapened once on accident, it felt good so he went for it. I think a small discussion on it followed up by prevention is the best course of action. Basically, I agree w/ what you've done esp w the intervention that happened after his last bath. So I wouldnt worry too much about it and just do my best to prevent it from happening again. Good luck!!
I have a background in child development and Crisis intervention and work with kids deemed at risk. All of which this child is and yet everything is being down played by this mother.
Nothing I said was rude, it was the same concerns professionals would ask.
The notion that any of us would want to see a video of this child crying and hanging off his mums legs is absurd. It was said strictly to make me feel shame for daring to suggest that there may have been a concrete reason WHY he behaves this way. B/c we ALL just must want to see this boy being ripped kicking and screaming from his mother b/c we DARED to point out that she may have some responsibility for her sons behaviours.
Its clear that there are major denial issues. And until those issues of denial are addressed this boy is in danger of developing increasing disturbing behaviours...both to himself and to other children.
I said I was right, b/c she immedicately treid to make me sound like I was blinded by irrationality and bias. I said that he had probably seen something and was told that I was just jumping on her back...but then flat out said that she "knew" that he had probably seen something inappropriate....but still insists she has no idea WHY he does the things he does.
Put all of her posts together and there is a level of denial. A level of dissasocation between her concerns and then her ability to rationalizise them.
A pedi office that laughs at a child who has a dog sexually masturbate him, exclaims intrest in having the dog excrete on him/fart on him etc... should be shut down. I have never ever heard of ANY of those behaviours being waved off as "typical" boy behaviour.
And I really cant buy into the notion that this is exactly what this pedi office did.
I have worked with probably 500 children. And none of them displayed those behaviours as "typical" boy development. And any profesional that does....makes me concerned about his professionality.
And having that discussion with the secretary instead of the ped doesnt make a l;ick of sense. She would have been fired instantly for doling out prosfessional opinion when she is not a registaered ped, nor is liscenced to make those assumptions.
I am not blindly ganging up on this women. I am recognizing that this is seriously disturbing behaviour.
It wasnt meant to be harsh, It was meant to point out that that bit of info would have explained alot about his behaviour and probabaly woudl have avoided alot of these questions. Had she come out and said
"He could have seen this while we were watching Something R rated on TV" Would have probably made most of us say "Ooops, yes that has happened to us before too. That makes more sense then saying you didnt know why he was behaving this way"
Why keep insisting that you dont know why these behaviours are occuring when you have a reasonable explaination?
Comming here asking for suggestions for several serious behaviours, but them not accepting reasonable explainations on Why they may be happening makes no sense.
If she is open to help, then recognizing that you may have accidently contributed to such behaviours is the most important step.
Edited to remove the word Pron b/c I missed where she confirmed it wasnt pron so I apologise for saying it was.
I think you have offered so much helpful advice.
Tho I do have to say, that both those behaviours (excreting and fart) can be sexual in origion. That is not typical behaviour for a 3 year old. Again NOT saying that he has been abused. Just that adding this senario to the others mentioned....raises the likilyhood that it was sexuality associative.
I agree with everything you have said and you made some really excellent points. Thank you for that.
I have a background in child development and Crisis intervention and work with kids deemed at risk. All of which this child is and yet everything is being down played by this mother.
<snip>
I said I was right, b/c she immedicately treid to make me sound like I was blinded by irrationality and bias. I said that he had probably seen something and was told that I was just jumping on her back...but then flat out said that she "knew" that he had probably seen something inappropriate....but still insists she has no idea WHY he does the things he does.
All that suggests to me is that it hadn't occurred to her that simply seeing something like that on tv would be enough to put the idea in his head (this is re: the Barbie incident, which this thread actually isn't about, anyway).
Put all of her posts together and there is a level of denial. A level of dissasocation between her concerns and then her ability to rationalizise them.
A pedi office that laughs at a child who has a dog sexually masturbate him, exclaims intrest in having the dog excrete on him/fart on him etc... should be shut down. I have never ever heard of ANY of those behaviours being waved off as "typical" boy behaviour.
Seriously? It sounded pretty normal to me. Three-year old boys, ime, are frequently very, very interested in both their penises and farts/poop/etc. That whole monologue actually made me kind of smile at how goofy little kids are about this kind of stuff. I told dh about the OP, and he laughed, and said, "sounds like a boy".
And I really cant buy into the notion that this is exactly what this pedi office did.
Well, if you think the OP is lying, then why bother responding at all? She could just as easily have made up the whole post.
I have worked with probably 500 children. And none of them displayed those behaviours as "typical" boy development.
How many of those children were at risk, and how many weren't? Quite honestly, I find that people who work with children with a lot of issues are quite often not the experts on "normal", typical behaviour that they think they are, for various reasons. Working with a lot of at risk children does have an impact on one's perceptions of children who aren't at risk, as well.
And any profesional that does....makes me concerned about his professionality.
And having that discussion with the secretary instead of the ped doesnt make a l;ick of sense. She would have been fired instantly for doling out prosfessional opinion when she is not a registaered ped, nor is liscenced to make those assumptions.
So, it's not okay for the secretary (and was it a secretary, or a nurse?) to say "you'll last the weekend, mom" and inquire if this is OP's first boy, and she should be fired. But, it's okay for you to assume that you have a better handle on this than any of the team of professionals who have been working with OP and her ds? How does that work, exactly?
I am not blindly ganging up on this women. I am recognizing that this is seriously disturbing behaviour.
The dog thing? Not so much. It's totally inappropriate, and it needs to be stopped, for various reasons (just thinking about what would happen if the dog nipped makes me feel ill, and that's not even the most important one, just the most immediate). But, it's not "seriously disturbing" to me. It's a little boy who has discovered something that feels really good, and also has trouble figuring out social boundaries.
Oh - and you also mentioned "porn" again. OP has clarified that she wasn't talking about porn. That really sounded like you're determined to paint OP in the worst possible light.
OP: I'm thinking of you and wishing you the best. You've done a lot in the last couple of years, and I really think that cutting your parents out was the single most important thing you could do, as far as trying to establish some stability for yourself and your kids. Your mom was/is a pro at keeping you off balance and making you doubt yourself.
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