How do I handle this? Help quick please!!! - Page 7

[beenmum]

. I read that she said it wasnt necessary to bring the child in...and then laughed it off as typical behaviour. Unless that was the peds advice...she should be fired. She would be here.

Forgive me, but honestly I have read most of the OP's posts over the forums, and I do see that there are some serious concerns going on in this childs life. Too many red flags to ignore.

So why should we not point it out to her? I dont agree with ganging up on her, or jumping her. But there are signs that this womens life could be SO much easier if by doing things differently. Shes asking for advice, should it not be given b/c the subject matter is uncomfy?

I'm not trying to be harsh, thats not my intention.

[beenmum]

Thank you for pointing out that it wasnt porn, I honestly missed that in her post to me, and I fixed it with an apology in my post.

I do have to ask tho, if one works with at risk kids, shoudlnt they be more used to and more credible in understanding those behaviours then someone who doesnt see it often?

We dont pull these behaviours out of thin air to hurt mothers who are trying hard to do the right things. However we also dont ignore those behaviours BECAUSE the mother is trying hard to do the right thing.

These behavioural red flags exist b/c they have been proven TO exist. Not b/c we hold personal vendettas against the parents.

I never said I had a better handle.

I said when taking EVERYTHING she has posted, it raises tons of red flags. I never said I know jack about HER family. I said the BEHAVIOURS were classic signs of either sexual abuse or inappropriate sexual exposure.

I can not create these posts out of thin air. She posted these things. I commented on them. I neither created them nor commented that I felt better able to form an opinion then anyone else on here.

[waiting2bemommy]

I think what Storm Bride was saying is that people who are used to seeing children who are at risk and who have definitely had some issues, can have a tendency to see something wrong with everything. Because in an abused child it *would* mean something else, but in a normal child it might not.

I'm not saying this is or is not the case with my ds....as I have stated MANY times already, I simply DO NOT KNOW. But this is a common phenomenon with people in the healthcare/behavioral/mental health field, according to friends of mine who are in college for psychology.

[beenmum]

Okay. I am sorry if I offended you.

But after doing 3 years of psyche classes, I have never ever heard of those behaviours being normal...maybe if it was ONE of those behaviours and not a grouping of them it would be.

However, I didnt mean to imply that your not doing a good job. Sometimes us parents get too close to a situation and are blinded by it.

You are obviouly not since you readily admit that you just dont know. Which is very open minded and wise of you.

I was honestly trying to be helpful, I obviously wasnt and I apologise for that,

[marinak1977]

OP, I do think that your DS may be too young to hang out with the 11 year olds without you watching. Bigger kids can frequently be mean to the littler ones, they often don't understand the power and long term consequences of their actions and they can be physically or emotionally abusive. Unless your DS has a big kid that looks out for him and will protect him and keep him away from trouble AND you can trust that kid to be there it is just too unpredictable of a situation. I wouldn't be comfortable with my DS out in that situation.
Honestly, the barbie thing could've been easily something learned from the bigger kids (preteen boys can go through a really crude phase as part of their maturation) but he wouldn't know that it wasn't a socially appropriate thing to do. Heck, a big kid could've even told him that's what you're supposed to do.

And to those who suggest rehoming the dog - I'd like to point out that the dog isn't showing any aggression, (rather it's probably being affective) and a dog that's licking is very unlikely to nip. The dog hasn't done anything to endanger the child. Rather, the OP can continue separating her DS from the dog and reinforcing that he is not to let the dog lick his privates and that it is inappropriate.
OP, hugs to you and healing thoughts. I'm sorry your life is in such turmoil, but I'm glad you're constantly striving to get help and improve things.

[waiting2bemommy]

I just want to clarify to all the posters metiong ds palying outside, that we moved from that neighborhood in November. Where we live now he is not allowed to go outside without me. I think once when dd was asleep I stood in the apartment door and let him go down the stairs and let the dog out of the main building door to go pee, but that's it. Totally different setup here. I've had kids invite him to play, but I don't know them or there parents and i"m not comfortable with it in *this* situation.

Just so ya'll know....it's not a free-for-all. I just felt VERY comfortable in my old neighborhood. marinak, it was 1  11 year old (the oldest child of my friend) who watched ds. He was very good about walking ds all the way to the front door and "delivering" him to me if he scraped his knee, ro when they came back from the park. He would come and ask me if ds was allowed to eat this or that from the ice cream truck (since ds has a red 40 allergy).

I know people are picturing me just turning a 2 year old loose on the street and it just wasn't like that, at all. In spite of all the problems in the neighborhood, people did look out for each other's kids. I have so many pics of the kids sitting on the stoop eating ice cream or doing chalk, or riding bikes in the driveway. 

[hildare]

i personally think it's amusing how a few years of college classes can all of a sudden seem to make some of us 'experts.'  just because one studied something in college, does not qualify one to make really large leaps into OP's life.  Especially since she's telling us that she IS taking her child to doctors, social workers, etc. and seeking expert help.  there's a fine line between offering advice when asked for it, and being judgey (and classist in some of the posts-- like talking about OP's "instability."  not all of us have the luxury of owning a home or being able to maintain employment in our place of choice, you know, that's kind of offensive to me personally)

OP, I think that you're trying to do your best for your kids, that's pretty obvious to me.  In my opinion, the dog incident isn't totally normal, nor is it an abnormal thing.  I think you've gotten some good advice about 'line of sight,' and that's really going to be good for both you and ds. 

there's no 'sexual abuse test' out there, and you know.. you might not ever know exactly.  all you can do is keep on keeping on, be aware that bad things happen, and address issues as they come up.  i don't know what might or might not have happened but you CAN control what does & WILL happen, you know?  i hate that you're having these difficulties and it seems like you're struggling with lots of worries.  i am also sorry that you seem to be the brunt of lots of criticism when you were asking for support. 

[beenmum]

 personally think it's amusing how a few years of college classes can all of a sudden seem to make some of us 'experts 

Um, I hate to sound arguemenative...but that IS what it makes some of us.

A doctor who spends years in classes IS an expert.

How does one become an expert w/o taking years of classes to become one???

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by beenmum 

 personally think it's amusing how a few years of college classes can all of a sudden seem to make some of us 'experts 

Um, I hate to sound arguemenative...but that IS what it makes some of us.

A doctor who spends years in classes IS an expert.

How does one become an expert w/o taking years of classes to become one???

College gives theory. Practice brings expertise.

[beenmum]

Yep. Had lots and lots of that too. Working with kids at risk for 18 years. Why would you think that those of us who offer opinions havent? I dont offer opinions lightly. I dont offer opinions on areas I have no expereince in.

How long does someone have to be working in a feild to be considered "exepereinced?"

[AttunedMama]

Originally Posted by beenmum 

Yep. Had lots and lots of that too. Working with kids at risk for 18 years. Why would you think that those of us who offer opinions havent? I dont offer opinions lightly. I dont offer opinions on areas I have no expereince in.

How long does someone have to be working in a feild to be considered "exepereinced?"

Um? The whole 'porn' fiasco is indicative that you DO offer opinions lightly/leap to conclusions.

The fact that you say you don't, also shows me that your reflexivity is whack.

[graceomalley]

Originally Posted by hildare 

i personally think it's amusing how a few years of college classes can all of a sudden seem to make some of us 'experts.' 

I don't feel the need to sign any of my posts with my qualifications so that they're more valid than those of anyone else.

But, since people want to nitpick ...

I have 2 degrees and nearly 15 years of experience in my field (including university research and articles published in international journals).  I am a mandated reporter and I train others in this area, so yes - in my opinion my advice was that of an expert.  I stand by it.  If a person came to me IRL with the story in the OP I would be legally required to report it.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by graceomalley 

I don't feel the need to sign any of my posts with my qualifications so that they're more valid than those of anyone else.

But, since people want to nitpick ...

I have 2 degrees and nearly 15 years of experience in my field (including university research and articles published in international journals).  I am a mandated reporter and I train others in this area, so yes - in my opinion my advice was that of an expert.  I stand by it.  If a person came to me IRL with the story in the OP I would be legally required to report it.

Seriously? You'd be required to report the dog thing?? Why?

[insidevoice]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

Seriously? You'd be required to report the dog thing?? Why?

Because it really is a big red flag waving.  It's hypersexualized behavior that would warrant investigation to make sure it really only was exploration, and to not make that call would be negligent on the part of a mandated reporter. 

OP please consider rehoming the dog, at the very least, and ensure constant line of sight supervision for your child.   He can't learn what is and isn't appropriate behavior without instant guidance from you- after the fact is not going to work with a child who is clearly struggling as he is.  Kids with any AS/SPD 'stuff' have no boundaries of their own.  They don't learn them like "normal" kids will, and they need to have that guidance LONG after most kids their age need it. You will probably need LOS supervision with him until he is well into elementary school.  Given that he IS a hypersexualized child- for whatever reason- you also need to be hypervigilant since he has a built in victim in a younger sibling. 

Your mother may or may not have been overprotective- that doesn't matter, because  for this child, being an overprotective mom isn't going to be enough.  You need to go even further than that to help him, to protect him, and to protect your family.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by insidevoice 

Because it really is a big red flag waving.  It's hypersexualized behavior that would warrant investigation to make sure it really only was exploration, and to not make that call would be negligent on the part of a mandated reporter. 

If this is hypersexualized behaviour, then most boys I've ever met are hypersexualized. I've personally never seen a boy do this, but I've seen a lot of perfectly "normal" three year old boys, and they're all pretty freaking interested in their penises and making their penises feel good. This is something I'd put a stop to, for sure - but it (by "it", I mean seeking out something that had felt good in the past) seems like a pretty normal response to me.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

If this is hypersexualized behaviour, then most boys I've ever met are hypersexualized. I've personally never seen a boy do this, but I've seen a lot of perfectly "normal" three year old boys, and they're all pretty freaking interested in their penises and making their penises feel good. This is something I'd put a stop to, for sure - but it (by "it", I mean seeking out something that had felt good in the past) seems like a pretty normal response to me.

Context is everything.  Given the complicated history, it's a different story than a child with no history incidentally discovering that it felt good and repeating it.

I'm also a mandated reporter with two degrees and years of field experience.  I remember being a young person in university, and I sure hope no one weighed my casual advice over that of the licensed professionals actually involved, or a diverse group of experienced moms who are at least in agreement that mom and child need support.   I in fact don't have an opinion about whether the behaviour is hypersexualized or not, because I think the "if feels good, repeat, repeat" three year old explanation works too.  There are so many variables at play for the OP and her family.

I will repeat, however, my concerns that a three year old has been diagnosed with Asperger's and ADHD, both diagnoses which are usually held until a child is 7-8+ - this makes me question the clinicians involved as this goes against widely used clinical standards.  I am concerned about OP's child receiving appropriate support for his developmental needs.

waiting2bemommy, I wish you all the best and I hope you and your family are getting the support you need IRL.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by joensally 

Context is everything.  Given the complicated history, it's a different story than a child with no history incidentally discovering that it felt good and repeating it.

I agree about context, but the impression I got from the post I was responding to what that the isolated incident in the OP was grounds for a report, which was what I was addressing.

I'm also a mandated reporter with two degrees and years of field experience.  I remember being a young person in university, and I sure hope no one weighed my casual advice over that of the licensed professionals actually involved, or a diverse group of experienced moms who are at least in agreement that mom and child need support.   I in fact don't have an opinion about whether the behaviour is hypersexualized or not, because I think the "if feels good, repeat, repeat" three year old explanation works too.  There are so many variables at play for the OP and her family.

I will repeat, however, my concerns that a three year old has been diagnosed with Asperger's and ADHD, both diagnoses which are usually held until a child is 7-8+ - this makes me question the clinicians involved as this goes against widely used clinical standards.  I am concerned about OP's child receiving appropriate support for his developmental needs.

waiting2bemommy, I wish you all the best and I hope you and your family are getting the support you need IRL.

[insidevoice]

A one time thing with the dog wouldn't necessarily be reportable, but when you couple that with the bigger picture, I'm very surprised there haven't been many reports filed by the professionals working with this family if the OP discloses to them all that she has here. Particularly given a previous complaint of sexual abuse- and the fact that the provider is said to be aware of that history- a call should have been made.  Maybe it is a coincidence that this complaint was filed and this boy is flying enough red flags pointing to the behavior. Maybe.  It isn't up to a mandated reporter to decide whether there is or isn't abuse, it is up to that person to say there is a suggestion of abuse that really needs further examination, and within context, this boy deserves that. 

Would I make the call on just the behavior with the dog?  In a single moment snapshot, no.  After a brief discussion with Mom relating anything more of the many things she has disclosed here- absolutely.  Couple the previous incident (a year ago?  so a 2 yo was aware enough of the technicalities of sex to use a Barbie in that way? Yikes!) and yes,  the red flags are waving. 

I have sensory seeking kids with absolutely no normal boundaries.  I know about kids who find something inappropriate to fill that need, and I can grasp that part of this little boy's reality.  There is more going on with this kid than just that if you look at the big picture and the posting history. You simply can not have a positive outcome for a kid with the diagnoses this child has (I also wonder about why those would be given to a child his age- PDD-NOS would be more on target for now)  with the constant chaos and instability he has had going on around him throughout his very short life.  

SUBMIT

[junipermoon]

Originally Posted by graceomalley 

I don't feel the need to sign any of my posts with my qualifications so that they're more valid than those of anyone else.

But, since people want to nitpick ...

I have 2 degrees and nearly 15 years of experience in my field (including university research and articles published in international journals).  I am a mandated reporter and I train others in this area, so yes - in my opinion my advice was that of an expert.  I stand by it.  If a person came to me IRL with the story in the OP I would be legally required to report it.

Originally Posted by graceomalley 

Take him to a pediatrician right now.  Get an emergency appointment.  Have him assessed for other signs of sexual abuse.  Get him to a safe place (ie a child therapist) and get this off the internet.  Do you realise how serious your post is?

But your advice is delivered in a bombastic way and ignores that the op's son just went through a dss related evaluation for sexual abuse that included a medical exam, and is currently in therapy.    

Also just to be clear what is your area of expertise?  You have 2 phds?  Who do you train and under what credentials?  I am curious because it is hard to pick up from your post and if you are willing to say your opinion is an expert one I think the op deserves to know specifically in what areas you have trained and practiced. 

I also think, regardless of your credentials, that it is impossible to offer an expert opinion on a matter such as this over the internet--experienced, yes, if you explain what that experience is, but "expert opinion" denotes something more and generally is offered in the context of actual evaluation.  I am no expert at all, but I am in grad school for psychology and that much I know...and what I also know, though it is off topic, is that experts disagree all the time. maybe you have read some of the university level research on diagnostic inconsistencies among seasoned experts in mental health?  It is wild!  Drives home the idea that notions like "mental health" and "expert" are constructed at the level of culture and changeable across time and place. 

The OP has to swim in all of this and do her best by her son in the midst of it, and she came here posting willingly.   Regardless of the backgrounds we all have I guess I feel like the OP has got to be stressed enough as it is.   When you mix up the term "expert" with surface, less than sensitive commentary on what she must do to find safety for her child, that makes me want to chime in and ask for clarification.