How do I handle this? Help quick please!!! - Page 3

[junipermoon]

One more thing I was thinking about: as pps were pointing out, I think that online forums can be great places to seek support BUT it might wise to choose to be anonymous and change some details in order to protect your identity (and your kids) if you are going to post about the nitty gritty of your life.  Pics of you and your kids links the info you are sharing directly to you and your kids...if you look for an asd forum or another forum of some type and keep identifying details out of your posts there, I think it is ok to get personal.  Conversely, you probably should edit this thread as you mention you are going to do, because in this forum, you are not anonymous or even quasi anonymous...does that make sense? 

more hugs, if ok, mama. 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I'm in the "huh?  WHY is this such a big deal?" camp.  Masturbation is a completely normal thing for a 3 YO.  It feels good.  Its not deviant in any way.  Its so easy to imagine that the dog licked him once and it felt good.  So he continued it.  He is too young to be aware of the social taboo involved.  If he were rubbing himself against the couch, would everyone react the same?  I don't think so.

From other posters I understand there might be more history here than I realize, but based only on what is on this thread this just seems way too quick a jump to the worst possible scenarios.

Still, just because its developmentally appropriate doesn't mean its OK to allow to continue.  In your shoes I would ensure that dog/child encounters are supervised (for everyone's safety.  As someone mentioned, even without this preschooler-pet interactions should be supervised at all times.)  I would continue to emphasis to your child that his "private parts" (or whatever word you use) are just that and no one should touch them -- including the dog.  If he masterbates on his own, I would tell him that its private, in-your-bedroom behavior.  And honestly, I'd leave it at that, just as I would for any other young child and body exploration.

[waiting2bemommy]

update: We went to the psychologist today. He didn't think it was something to be overly concerned about. He does not believe that it was due to any abuse, and he knows the full story on ds and our past history. His theory on it was that ds discovered by a fluke that it felt good and so he began seeking out that behavior. Because ds has a sensory integration problem, and is a big time sensory seeker, this could contribute to it as well. (according to him). It would be next to impossible to keep ds and the dog in my direct line of sight all the time, but we had a serious discussion with ds about this behavior, including the possibility of the dog biting him. He doesn't want the dog to bite him, so I think that sunk in. 

I truly do not believe that this is linked to abuse. Given the fact that my son does a lot of other socially inappropriate sensory seeking things (licking people, for example) I think the psychologist is on the right track. We have another appointment in 2 weeks and it will be dealt with then (or sooner if need be) if this becomes an issue again.

Also, just to clarify, we were in the same room when this happened, all three times. Our living room and dining room are one big room separated only by a couch. It's not a secretive thing for ds, and he didn't seem to feel guilty or ashamed abut it, which further indicates to me that it's not a sexual thing in the way that many people here are making it out to be.

[nashvillemidwife]

Did you tell the psychologist about last March when he undressed a Barbie doll at the store, pulled his pants down, spread the Barbie's legs apart and put it on his penis? Did they think was normal behavior also?

[waiting2bemommy]

Yes, as I have already said, they are aware of ds' entire history. everything that has gone on in our family is documented, so that even if we were to change providers in the future, we don't have to start from square 1.

The Barbie thing really unnerved me and that was the reason I started taking him to play therapy. There were some other issues that we worked on as a family but there was no other evidence of abuse.

I will always wonder if something happened to him at my parents' house, perhaps while he was sleeping. That is when I was molested, and I wasn't aware of it until I was much older as strange as that may sound. But if we can't get it out of him in therapy I don't know any other way to find out.

[marinak1977]

The Barbie thing does sound really unnerving. Not the dog thing though. OP, sending you a and hope you can get your DS all the services/help he needs.

[daniedb]

I would find a new therapist immediately.

[kawa kamuri]

Originally Posted by daniedb 

I would find a new therapist immediately.

[waiting2bemommy]

someone suggested hypnosis for me as a way to "unlock" my memories of abuse, but I'm not comfortable with that, is there anything similar that might be effective in drawing out my ds if in fact he has been abused? Of course there is still the possibility that he saw something inappropriate on TV and was acting that out (with the barbie thing). We have been to two psychologists plus a third team of people who did a forensic interview with ds when my mother called CPS on us. None of the usual methods....doll house, puppets/dolls, role playing, drawing, talking, etc have turned up anything other than a general anxiety. The anxiety is easing up a *little* now that we have a diagnosis and are adjusting our expectations of ds accordingly.

The other thing is that ds is quite the tattle teller. He will greet me when I come home from work by saying "daddy made me eat too much food, daddy  didn't use the timer like he's supposed to (we use a timer for a lot of things to help him keep focus), daddy was playing rough and we're supposed to play gentle," etc. Likewise if I yell at him (my worst trait) he will tell my DP as soon as he can "Mommy was yelling and going craaaaazy Daddy!" If he has any scratch or minor injury (real or imagined) he will tattle on whoever did it (even if it was an accident). I just can't imagine that he wouldn't have said *something* to at least give me a hint of what could be going on in his head.

If anyone has any actual experience with this I would be very interested to hear how you drew your child out. I'm not ignoring the possibility that something has happened, but at this point I can push and push or I can just deal with the behaviors as they arise. I am not willing to keep putting ds through therapist after therapist until I hear what I think I should hear. All of the people he has seen came highly recommended and the forensic eval was through the children's hospital, who handles ALL the CPS cases. I'm sure they know what they are doing.

The Barbie thing totally freaked me out. I think I posted when it happened. Oh man, *I* had nightmares and flashbacks because of worrying about and hyperfocusing on it. But no one can give me a reason. Maybe there truly isn't one, maybe we will never know.

[liliaceae]

OP, I think you should seriously consider removing your family's picture and identifying info from your profile here. I just googled your children's first names and your town, and this thread was the second result that came up.

[waiting2bemommy]

Originally Posted by liliaceae 

OP, I think you should seriously consider removing your family's picture and identifying info from your profile here. I just googled your children's first names and your town, and this thread was the second result that came up.

That is really scary. Thank you for letting me know. I checked and we're not google-able (is that a word?) anymore. Thank you!

[mattemma04]

I would get rid of the dog and take my child to others for evaluation. Therapists make mistakes.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy 

someone suggested hypnosis for me as a way to "unlock" my memories of abuse, but I'm not comfortable with that, is there anything similar that might be effective in drawing out my ds if in fact he has been abused? Of course there is still the possibility that he saw something inappropriate on TV and was acting that out (with the barbie thing). We have been to two psychologists plus a third team of people who did a forensic interview with ds when my mother called CPS on us. None of the usual methods....doll house, puppets/dolls, role playing, drawing, talking, etc have turned up anything other than a general anxiety. The anxiety is easing up a *little* now that we have a diagnosis and are adjusting our expectations of ds accordingly.

The other thing is that ds is quite the tattle teller. He will greet me when I come home from work by saying "daddy made me eat too much food, daddy  didn't use the timer like he's supposed to (we use a timer for a lot of things to help him keep focus), daddy was playing rough and we're supposed to play gentle," etc. Likewise if I yell at him (my worst trait) he will tell my DP as soon as he can "Mommy was yelling and going craaaaazy Daddy!" If he has any scratch or minor injury (real or imagined) he will tattle on whoever did it (even if it was an accident). I just can't imagine that he wouldn't have said *something* to at least give me a hint of what could be going on in his head.

If anyone has any actual experience with this I would be very interested to hear how you drew your child out. I'm not ignoring the possibility that something has happened, but at this point I can push and push or I can just deal with the behaviors as they arise. I am not willing to keep putting ds through therapist after therapist until I hear what I think I should hear. All of the people he has seen came highly recommended and the forensic eval was through the children's hospital, who handles ALL the CPS cases. I'm sure they know what they are doing.

The Barbie thing totally freaked me out. I think I posted when it happened. Oh man, *I* had nightmares and flashbacks because of worrying about and hyperfocusing on it. But no one can give me a reason. Maybe there truly isn't one, maybe we will never know.

OP I wanted to address the idea of hypnosis "drawing" out memories.

I have done a lot of research into the subject due to my own hazy memories of my abuse. 

From what I have read hypnosis is not a reliable or very good way to try and help remember what really took place. Just because it comes out in hypnosis in no way means it was actually real. I know that sounds scary but the findings are that often the "memories" are not really memories at all, just things you think happened. I am not saying your abuse didn't occur, I know mine did, I am just fuzzy on the details, and the important thing is to ask yourself WHY you want to know the details. As an adult what good is it going to you to know exactly what happened to you. These are questions that need to be addressed before attempting hypnosis.

In regard to your son, I can see where it would be important to know exactly what happened to your son..

I guess I am in the minority that IF BIG IF, the dog penis licking thing were an isolated incident I would actually laugh at it...I mean it's gross but if it was just one thing I wouldn't be phased. From everything else that has happened to your son though I can't say it is ok even a little bit...

I actually went through all your threads just browsing and I see a repeated pattern of you thinking other people are abusing other children. There are multiple threads where you ask if you should possibly call CPS or if it seems like there is something really wrong. You seem to be able to see a lot of issues with other adults and kids but you are blind to the fact that your son is acting out in such bizarre ways that there is a really good chance he was abused. 

Just because the group of psychologists you worked with didn't find anything doesn't mean it is not there. I feel like it is easy for you to see possible abuse (based on your past posts) whereever you happen to be living but with your own child it just couldn't be true. You admit that perhaps something happened at your parent's (why was he even with them if they abused you!?) and you refuse to consider your DP could EVER do something like that. Well unfortunately I have heard many MANY stories of mamas who just couldn't ever possibly imagine someone that close to them doing something like that and then maybe months, or years later the truth comes out.  I am not saying your DP did anything but YOU can never know for sure, so please don't be angry when people make suggestions to that effect.

I wish the best of luck, trouble seems to follow you like a bad habit, I hope you can find your son some help and I would scrap the therapists you have and start all over with a new one. Or multiple new ones. I would not rest until I had some answers if it was my kid.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Your son is SOOO LITTLE.  I was shocked when I read one of your posts about him playing outside with other older kids.  And you dont know where he could possibly be abused?  Maybe the older kids were behaving in ways they shouldnt and he watched it all go down?  That is still a form of sexual molestation.  Even if he was never touched. 

Stop letting him out by himself.  HES 3!  I have my own yard and my kids dont go outside where I cant see them.  And my son is older then yours.  I know you said you guys moved, and im guessing that when you were letting him out it was when you were in that communal living situation, (Where, i might add, you thought a little girl was being sexually molested, or at best, inappropriatly handled by a neighbor.)

I have noticed a pattern in your posts as well, and trust me, I have read alot of them.  You seem to backpeddle alot when your common sense is ever questioned.  And I KNOW you posted about your partner in the past about issues you were having with him and your son.  If I took those posts out of context, then maybe its time to stop posting about every last little thing that is happening with the four of you.  Sometimes discretion is best. 

I dont mean to sound harsh, but I am seriously genuinly concerned about your son.  Not that I think you would LET anything happen to him, but because sometimes we are so intuned and smart about what we know to be "true", we cant see the forest through the trees. 

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by ~Charlie's~Angel~ 

Your son is SOOO LITTLE.  I was shocked when I read one of your posts about him playing outside with other older kids.  And you dont know where he could possibly be abused?  Maybe the older kids were behaving in ways they shouldnt and he watched it all go down?  That is still a form of sexual molestation. 

I also have a hard time comprehending this. He wasn't even 3 when you let him go off playing with kids as old as 11? With no adult supervision? I find this so shocking. What things your little boy could have seen and heard. It breaks my heart.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by waiting2bemommy 

someone suggested hypnosis for me as a way to "unlock" my memories of abuse, but I'm not comfortable with that, is there anything similar that might be effective in drawing out my ds if in fact he has been abused?

Hypnosis can be really dangerous for that purpose -- not just because of the possibility of 'false memories' like a pp mentioned, but also because if abuse did occur, and he's repressing it, he's repressing it for a reason, and he's not able to deal with it yet. Forcing things to the surface, moving too quickly, could have serious effects on him. I am struggling with a very similar thing myself (not my DS) and it's so frustrating not knowing but at the same time I am trying to respect my body's natural defense mechanisms and the way they are trying to protect me.

I do see (at least from previous posts) multiple instances where your DS was in very very vulnerable environments & could have been abused. That is a positively terrifying thought and I'm sure it's sooo hard to even think about (and even harder when you're an abuse survivor yourself) but denial isn't going to get you anywhere either. Frankly, I'm shocked that SO many professionals have said conclusively that he's not being abused, because there are so many red flags in your posts that it seems very likely. Take any one thing and we could explain it away, but if you take EVERYTHING in context (and granted, I know we don't necessarily have the whole picture, but still) and I would strongly suspect something happened/is happening to him. I would get another opinion and make sure to include every last detail (print out some of your old posts, perhaps)... And yes, keep your DS in eyesight at all times no matter how hard it is, especially if he's around older kids or adults, because until you can figure out if anything did happen, anyone he spends time with could be a suspect. I know that sounds paranoid but there is a time & a place to be over-cautious & IMO, this is it.

[kawa kamuri]

Originally Posted by D_McG 

Originally Posted by ~Charlie's~Angel~ 

Your son is SOOO LITTLE.  I was shocked when I read one of your posts about him playing outside with other older kids.  And you dont know where he could possibly be abused?  Maybe the older kids were behaving in ways they shouldnt and he watched it all go down?  That is still a form of sexual molestation. 

I also have a hard time comprehending this. He wasn't even 3 when you let him go off playing with kids as old as 11? With no adult supervision? I find this so shocking. What things your little boy could have seen and heard. It breaks my heart.
 

Sadly, this was the norm in my old, poverty ridden neighborhood. 

[waiting2bemommy]

well, our neighborhood was definitely low income, but I wouldn't call it poverty stricken. And that was the norm for around there. I guess I felt comfortable with it because unless they were at the park (which is right catacorner behind the house, but not completely in direct eyesight due to trees and fences) they were mostly in our yard or the next door neighbor's (adjoining) yard. The only house ds was allowed inside was our good friends and next door neighbor. It's not like ds was just roaming around on random blocks. I always knew where he was and who he was with.

Of course I know there are people who think you should have your kid in direct eyesight at all times;they should never play outside by themselves, close their bedroom doors or take out the trash without someone watching. My mom is that type (she even homeschooled me) and I still got molested. I don't really see how all her protectiveness did me any good. And I was miserable locked up in the house while all the other kids played outside. I used to sit in my window and make up stories about them and their lives and write them down in my notebooks, because I was so bored. I'm on a tangent now, but anyway my point is that I just don't subscribe to that theory. I find it entirely useless, and I wasted the first 18 years of my life terrified of the world; I refuse to waste any more of my time or my kids' time thinking that everything outside my four walls is suspect.

However, having said all that, I have to admit that there is one little girl whose house he went into twice, both times VERY briefly because I was watching him (like I said I dont just let him wander wherever) and promptly grabbed him and hauled him back home for the day. The little girl has had two younger siblings removed by CPS.....no one in the neighborhood was allowed in her house and none of the kids other than ds liked to play with her.

I find it hard to believe that anything could have happened in the time that it took me to get from my porch to hers, but they did go in and shut the door. I suppose anything is possible. This was after the Barbie incident. I don't know what to make of it.

I do hear all of you and what you are saying and I'm not intending to bury my head in the sand. I am honestly at a loss as to what else I can do. I mean, what would be YOUR limit for taking your child to numerous therapists and having the same questions asked over and over? Can he receive therapy for abuse even if he doesn't say he was molested? What else can I do? His diagnostic classroom has sent home behavior questionnaires and they date back 1 year, so I included the barbie incident. No one has said anything other than "kids experiment." They seem to take the word of the evaluators who did his forensic interview.....apparently they can get something out of almost anybody.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife 

Did you tell the psychologist about last March when he undressed a Barbie doll at the store, pulled his pants down, spread the Barbie's legs apart and put it on his penis? Did they think was normal behavior also?

I didn't catch where the OP's psychologist said this was normal behaviour. Where was that?

OP's ds has numerous issues. That's already been clearly stated.  The fact that those issues are sometimes manifesting in a sexual way does not have to mean there is or was sexual abuse happening. DS2 also has issues (so far undiagnosed - most people say SPD, autism spectrum or some combo of both, and I've definitely wondered about aspergers). At age three, he was always naked, thought it was hilarious to take his clothes off in situations where he'd been told not to, and loved playing with his penis, even with other people around. When I first read the OP, my very first thought was "oh - thank goodness we don't have a dog!".

OP's son has had numerous upheavals as she's tried to straighten out her life (and I reiterate, OP, that I think cutting out your parents was the best thing you could have done!). He's lived in a lot of different places, in a lot of different circumstances, in a very short time. He was, if I recall, present when his father hit OP, when he was very, very little.

This boy has special needs. He's had a lot of ups and downs in his very short life. Is there a particular reason why so many posters are so fixated on the idea that he must have been sexually abused? Not every single problem that manifests sexually is about sexual abuse. The dog thing could very well be about it feeling good. The Barbie thing? It could be any number of things. Kids don't process this stuff the same way we do. I remember hearing a very young child (years ago - can't even remember for sure if it was ds1, or a friend's son) comment that if he had a baby, it would have to suck on his penis. Adults around were horrified, and he explained his thinking - men don't have boobs, so the penis must be the way a man is meant to feed his baby. It never even crossed this kid's mind that men aren't meant to feed a baby at all, because that made no sense to him. People explained everything to him...but I can just imagine how that comment about a baby would have sounded if overheard by a stranger at the mall, yk?

[bluebackpacks]

I understand that your son has a possible autism diagnosis.  Would it be helpful to have a forensic psychologist with experience interviewing ASD children interview him?  If your son does have autism, then he most likely has no intuitive sense of social boundaries.  If he doesn't understand social boundaries, then he won't be able to tell you when they have been breached.  Taking this one step further, your son might not be able to confirm abuse unless the description of such abuse matches his exact experience.  The problem is two-fold.  First, he must understand that several actions go together and constitute abuse.  Second, he must use language to construct a cohesive verbal account of his personal experience.  These are enormous challenges for a child on the spectrum.  Additionally, abusers often exploit the obsessive/perseverative tendencies of ASD children.

These are just some thoughts I wanted to share.  If they don't apply to your situation, please disregard.