Remind me that I can't hit.

[Storm Bride]

DS2 is driving me nuts. He hits people multiple times every day. He hits me. He hits both his sisters. He occasionally hits his older brother. I don't think he hits dh, but I'm not sure.

I do NOT know what to do about this. I'm not even going to get into what I've tried, but I don't know what to do. He just keeps throwing things, breaking things, getting into things he's not allowed to get into, and HITTING people. I'm getting to be on a really short fuse, and I just can't handle it. I just ended up grabbing him, carrying him (against his will downstairs), throwing him (not hard, but not particularly gently) onto the couch and screaming threats in his face, which is not good parenting, not helpful and just not a good scene. And, once again - it WORKED!! He's quietly, peacefully reading to his little sister, after a complete reigh of terror most of the day. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

Why does he only ever behave when I lose it and act like a crappy human being and an even worse parent? Why is scaring him the only thing that stops him from acting like this?

ETA: Hmm...wonder what kind of Freudian slip that was. This was meant to be titled "Remind me why I can't hit". *sigh*

[skreader]

What do you do to stop him  (or try to stop him) when you don't blow your fuse?

[Storm Bride]

The same things I do when I do blow my fuse, mostly...various combinations of talking, spending time with him (that one's mostly pre-emptive) and time-outs.

When he's actually hitting, I tell him to stop (although 99% of the time, he only hits once, so he's done by the time I tell him to quit). Then, I either go to talk to him, or call him over to me. Sometimes, he waits/comes to me, and sometimes he runs off, usually laughing. He thinks it's hilarious to make me chase him. We go over ways to cool down before it gets to hitting (leaving, deep breaths, etc.), and talk about how it feels to get hit. He always apologizes (he's very quick to apologize, actually, but it doesn't stop him from doing it again, sometimes within minutes). None of it seems to get through at all.

If it's one of the times when he keeps hitting (or whatever - he does other things that invade other people's bodily boundaries, and some of those, he's more likely to keep doing after being told to stop), then I go over and pull him off. And, things tend to go badly then, too - lots of shouting, screaming "you're hurting me" (even if I'm being very gentle) and thrashing all over the place. Once he settles down, we move on to time-outs, talking, etc.

The time-outs are framed more as "you need to be away from dd1/dd2/whomever until you can calm down and behave properly" than a punitive thing. I don't even really like them, but I'm at my wit's end with this boy, and have been for quite a while. It feels like my entire day is a crisis most of the time. Nothing seems to make an impression. I get the feeling that he doesn't even really understand why he's being removed or talked to or whatever. It's like the consequences, whatever they are, don't connect with his behaviour in his head.

*sigh*

I'm pretty sure I just need to get a few good night's sleep in a row, and then I may have a little more energy and creativity to deal with this. But, the hitting is just pushing every button I've got, and he just. does. not. stop. (Okay - the sneaking off with scissors, spilling things, throwing things, breaking things, getting into other people's stuff, etc. is all hard to take, too...but it's the hitting that's really setting me off.) He's such a sweet kid in so many ways, but he's taking up a massively disproportionate amount of my time and energy.

[NellieKatz]

This is a helpful web site.

http://www.handinhandparenting.org/articles

Be sure to click "Browse all articles" to see the full selection. I hope you can find something that helps.

[mama*pisces]

Storm Bride, I empathize. My ds is turning 5 next month and he is a hitter. It was the worst when he was three, and then we started using an "angry box", which is a shoe box I filled with things he could use to acceptably express his anger...crayons, paper to scribble on or rip up, and modeling clay to pound. He didn't use it for a while, and sometimes I would try to redirect him to it when he was angry, often with little success.   He finally used it a couple of times and the situation seemed to diffuse: he stopped trying to hit me when he was angry and we were okay for a while. Now he's almost 5 and it's been pretty much terrible lately. I don't know when it started again but his first impulse when he gets angry is to hit me - and I have not dealt with it well. I think the issue with him is not only lack of impulse control, but also that he is just a REALLY physical kid. He's very into sports and seems to need to use his body to express himself, even when not playing sports. He is always asking me to pillow fight or "play punching" (yay me),  or throwing random karate kicks at me, DH or his little sister. We just signed him up for Tae Kwon Do, and I am really really hoping it helps by giving him a positive outlet for his physicality, and helps to teach him SELF CONTROL. His hitting is probably my biggest hot button, so I definitely know how you feel.
 

[mamazee]

You know why that kind of thing "works" temproarily anyway is sometimes just because it's created a forced break.  Like it got his mind completely out of the mode it was in.  You can do that in another way, and in a way that doesn't teach him that yelling or being physical is the way to solve problems.

Sometimes when someone (usually the high needs child) is in a bad place, we just get out of the house somewhere.  Sometimes I suggest a cooking project.  Sometimes I have her take a bath (even in the middle of the day - if she's too upset or wild to leave the house or cook, a bath is my go-to thing.  I don't even care if she's already clean.)  Anything to create a huge break and get her mind in a different zone.

[mom2grrls]

You mentioned you probably need some good sleep, does he?  I know that although my son does not hit as much as he used to at 4 or 5(he's 6, almost 7) it is most likely to happen when he's tired.  Another thing is he getting enough time to be physical in a good way-running around outside, perhaps "play" wrestling with mom or dad, etc.  I know that my son seems to "need" that sort of thing more than my daughters do.

[hakeber]

DS went through a phase like this at about 3.  What I did was physically restrain him.  I kept him on a very short leash (so to speak, not physical leash), stayed pretty much right on top of him when out with others and the minute I saw signs of agression I scooped him up, took him to a new place and held him very tightly in a bear hug and we breathed deep counting to ten super slowly.  Then I'd have him face me eye to eye and ask him what he needed.  Usually he'd say a snack or fresh air,  sometimes he'd say a hug or to play with a toy or something like that.   Then we'd rejoin the activity.

Is your youngest girl old enough that you can leave the room for a few minutes with DS without endangering her safety?

By the time DS was 4 this phase had passed and he had new techniques for dealing with anger, plus he was much more verbal by four and starting to write words and draw recognizable figures so he was able to express his anger in letters to us and to his teachers (they were less amused than I was)...some of them were freakin' awesome and I have a collection in his baby book.

This is tough age because they are at that awkward stage of fluency where some days they seem like 8 year olds with their sophistication and the next they are like 1 years olds grunting and pointing and screaming.  Their communcative skills are more deeply affected at this age than before by outside influences like sleep, protein levels, temperature changes, spacial changes, etc.

Screaming may work as well because it probably was nice for him to see that you were as upset as he was and having his feelings mirrored by you like that probably made him feel more at peace...just a hypothesis.  I have no evidence for that theory, yet.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by mom2grrls 

You mentioned you probably need some good sleep, does he?  I know that although my son does not hit as much as he used to at 4 or 5(he's 6, almost 7) it is most likely to happen when he's tired.  Another thing is he getting enough time to be physical in a good way-running around outside, perhaps "play" wrestling with mom or dad, etc.  I know that my son seems to "need" that sort of thing more than my daughters do.

DS2 has definite sleep requirements, but I think he's doing okay on that. He gets about 10 hours or so a night. But, he will not nap anymore, except if he falls asleep in the car or something(and he usually wakes up pretty quickly), or if he's sick.

We've tried play wrestling, but it just doesn't work. He always ends upt getting too carried away and hitting or something. That's the thing - ds2's hitting is frequently not rooted in aggression. Sometimes, it is, but it frequently isn't. I think he finds it funny when dd2 cries when he hits her (but he'll also swoop in to kiss/hug her if something else upsets her). He doesn't seem to be able to play with anybody without it turning into some kind of violence...hitting, throwing, etc. It's just incredibly wearing.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by hakeber 

DS went through a phase like this at about 3.  What I did was physically restrain him.  I kept him on a very short leash (so to speak, not physical leash), stayed pretty much right on top of him when out with others and the minute I saw signs of agression I scooped him up, took him to a new place and held him very tightly in a bear hug and we breathed deep counting to ten super slowly.  Then I'd have him face me eye to eye and ask him what he needed.  Usually he'd say a snack or fresh air,  sometimes he'd say a hug or to play with a toy or something like that.   Then we'd rejoin the activity.

For the most part, I can only do this once he acutally hits someone, because there are often no warning signs at all. He seems fine, and is plaing normally, and then just hits someone, or screams in the little one's face and makes her cry, or whatever. We do a lot of deep breathing, but a bear hug (which has been necessary many times for safety reasons) is usually part of a drawn out meltdown, with him screaming "let me go, let me go", even if it was meant as a comfort measure initially...and then I'll do the exact same thing another time, and he'll snuggle in. (Obviously, the two different incidents aren't the same, but I don't know why. I can't read him well at all.)

And, he never knows what he wants. If he says anything other than "I don't know", it's almost always "I'm hungry", even if that's definitey not it. He defaults to thinking he's hungry, even if he's really over-stimulated, tired, thirsty, sick, bored, whatever.

Is your youngest girl old enough that you can leave the room for a few minutes with DS without endangering her safety?

Sure. I do that several times a day. I do have to deal with the fact that she still nurses a lot, so these incidents happen while she's latched semi-regularly (I've never been able to nurse while moving around - just can't get the hang of it). This means it either escalates, because whatever is happening isn't major enough to break her off, or it escalates, because I break her off, and then she's melting down, too.

By the time DS was 4 this phase had passed and he had new techniques for dealing with anger, plus he was much more verbal by four and starting to write words and draw recognizable figures so he was able to express his anger in letters to us and to his teachers (they were less amused than I was)...some of them were freakin' awesome and I have a collection in his baby book.

This is tough age because they are at that awkward stage of fluency where some days they seem like 8 year olds with their sophistication and the next they are like 1 years olds grunting and pointing and screaming.  Their communcative skills are more deeply affected at this age than before by outside influences like sleep, protein levels, temperature changes, spacial changes, etc.

DS2 can use words very well, and very rarely seems to be pre-verbal at all. But, he's not good at expressing his emotions, though art or through words. He doesn't even seem to know what he's feeling most of the time.

Screaming may work as well because it probably was nice for him to see that you were as upset as he was and having his feelings mirrored by you like that probably made him feel more at peace...just a hypothesis.  I have no evidence for that theory, yet.

This is possible. I'm willing to believe almost anything. He's really difficult to get a handle on. He'll be seeing a ped, to begin the process of having him assessed/evaluated, but the appointment isn't until July. :(

[hakeber]

So he's just a little over-exuberant.  That too will pass as he gains more strength and core control.  You may want to enroll him in karate classes for little ones.  This really helped my DS to control his strength better and get out a lot of that exuberance twice a week.  Plus then when he got excited we'd say "Save it for the Sensei, Benjamin!" and he'd do a little bow.  But I still had to watch him for signs of hyperness to reign it in before he got carried away and hurt himself or some else.  He was just GIANORMOUS for his age and he did not understand the damage he was capable of.

Just a thought.  Perhaps TaeKwonDo or Karate or even Gymnastics...something that could build core strength while also teaching discipline and self control.

A word of warning though.  They taught Benjamin to block a punch and he was showing me but I was also marking papers...so if your son ever tries to teach you a karate move, give him your full attention, he will probably try to demonstrate on you.  I learned with a black eye...he was so upset crying: "you were supposed to do the blocking, mommy, why didn't you block me!"  LOL

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by hakeber 

So he's just a little over-exuberant.  That too will pass as he gains more strength and core control.  You may want to enroll him in karate classes for little ones.  This really helped my DS to control his strength better and get out a lot of that exuberance twice a week.  Plus then when he got excited we'd say "Save it for the Sensei, Benjamin!" and he'd do a little bow.  But I still had to watch him for signs of hyperness to reign it in before he got carried away and hurt himself or some else.  He was just GIANORMOUS for his age and he did not understand the damage he was capable of.

Just a thought.  Perhaps TaeKwonDo or Karate or even Gymnastics...something that could build core strength while also teaching discipline and self control.

A word of warning though.  They taught Benjamin to block a punch and he was showing me but I was also marking papers...so if your son ever tries to teach you a karate move, give him your full attention, he will probably try to demonstrate on you.  I learned with a black eye...he was so upset crying: "you were supposed to do the blocking, mommy, why didn't you block me!"  LOL

He's currently taking Tae Kwon Do, as well as a dance class. We may be fitting in gymnastics or something at a later date.

But, I can't really watch for signs of hyperness. By the time there's anything noticeable (at least to me), he's already at the hitting stage.

Oh, well - having a bad day today, and doubting I'm ever going to find an effective way to cope with ds2, but I'm sure my mood will pass.

[hakeber]

Yeah DS used to shout "let go of me" too.  I just rocked and hummed until he calmed down.  Sometimes this took 30 minutes in the worst cases.

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

DS2 can use words very well, and very rarely seems to be pre-verbal at all. But, he's not good at expressing his emotions, though art or through words. He doesn't even seem to know what he's feeling most of the time. 

Yeah of course.  he's 3  That's part of the process.  He'll get there.  He needs to learn the words for his feelings and then figure out through trial and error what works.  It was about this age I started carrying peanut butter crackers with me and had a constant supply of boiled eggs in the fridge.  Sometimes I'd even offer that before even trying to talk.  I'd give him the snack and then I'd say...okay...what do we need to calm down?

He probably won't know, but let him try stuff out.  It's a good way for him learn.  Even very very highly verbal kids at this age lack the words and maturity to express their feelings.  Heck, even some adults lack the words to express their feelings.  He'll get there, Storm.  Boys take longer than girls, usually to learn these sort of skills. 

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by hakeber 

Yeah of course.  he's 3  That's part of the process.  He'll get there. 

He's not 3. He'll be 6 in July. I'm sure he'll get there, but it's been a long, long haul.

He needs to learn the words for his feelings and then figure out through trial and error what works. 

This is one of the frustrating things. He knows the words. He doesn't seem to know what he's feeling. He's also very poor at reading other's reactions. He'll be squeezing the baby too tight, and when she's crying, he's still saying "she likes it, mommy!".

It was about this age I started carrying peanut butter crackers with me and had a constant supply of boiled eggs in the fridge.  Sometimes I'd even offer that before even trying to talk.  I'd give him the snack and then I'd say...okay...what do we need to calm down?

I try snacks. He generally refuses to eat anything except carbs, which don't help much. Any time I can get eggs or nuts into him, it's a major victory.

He probably won't know, but let him try stuff out.  It's a good way for him learn.  Even very very highly verbal kids at this age lack the words and maturity to express their feelings.  Heck, even some adults lack the words to express their feelings.  He'll get there, Storm.  Boys take longer than girls, usually to learn these sort of skills. 

This whole "boys" thing is so frustrating. I guess I never really paid attention to it, because I already had a boy, and this stuff didn't hold true for him. DS1 talked before he was one, and at about 1.5, was able to express his emotions verbally and with fairly fine distinction (easily distinguished "sad" vs. "mad", etc.). DS2 has just been a whole other ballgame.

[hakeber]

I'm sorry, I have no idea where I got it in my head that he was 3.   How weird.   I am sorry it's been so frustrating!  Hope you guys find a way to work through this.  Six is pretty old to not be able to discuss emotions and needs and develop some awareness of those things. You must be exhausted!

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by hakeber 

I'm sorry, I have no idea where I got it in my head that he was 3.   How weird.   

It happens a lot with ds2. Last year, I had a neighbour reply to some observation about ds2 with "he's not such-and-such. He's a 2 year old". Said neighbour laughed with mild embarrassment when I replied, "exactly - but he's four, almost five". He came across to my neighbour as a two year old (albeit a big one), and probably came across in this thread as a three year old. It does have its funny side...and it's actually a useful barometer for me. It helps when people mistake his age so significantly, because it gives me a bit of a guide to where he's really operating, developmentally, yk?

I am sorry it's been so frustrating!  Hope you guys find a way to work through this.  Six is pretty old to not be able to discuss emotions and needs and develop some awareness of those things. You must be exhausted!

That's it, exactly. I"m not handling things wtih creativity or imagination, because I'm just so tired that those traits are lacking, yk? Right now, dh and I are trying to figure out ways to get me more "me time" and/or sleep. We've got a few things on tap, so there should be some improvement in the next few months.

Thank you.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 


...and it's actually a useful barometer for me. It helps when people mistake his age so significantly, because it gives me a bit of a guide to where he's really operating, developmentally, yk 

http://tinyurl.com/4yez3d7

The link above is to a book called Smart but Scattered.  It discusses Executive Function skills, and includes lists of the developmental stages of each of the 8 EF areas (ie response inhibition, which may be the cause of hitting).  Using these lists  you can gauge where your son is the development of his EF skills, and the book provides strategies to support their development. 

My son was a hitter.  I honestly can't remember what we did that worked, as we tried lots of strategies and I think it was maturation and addressing sensory issues that finally resolved it.  GL, this is tough stuff.
 

[Super~Single~Mama]

The quote box is being weird, so I'll type above it :)

My ds hates eggs too, but loves peanut butter.  When he's really freaking out, I'll wait until he momentarily chills out, and shove a spoonful of peanut butter in his mouth.  And then, the egg hater LOVES quiche.  Don't ask me why, it didn't make sense to me either.

Your DS1 sounds like my ds - I'm not too excited about having more kids b/c I know they probably won't talk as early!

I try snacks. He generally refuses to eat anything except carbs, which don't help much. Any time I can get eggs or nuts into him, it's a major victory.

.....

This whole "boys" thing is so frustrating. I guess I never really paid attention to it, because I already had a boy, and this stuff didn't hold true for him. DS1 talked before he was one, and at about 1.5, was able to express his emotions verbally and with fairly fine distinction (easily distinguished "sad" vs. "mad", etc.). DS2 has just been a whole other ballgame.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

The quote box is being weird, so I'll type above it :)

My ds hates eggs too, but loves peanut butter.  When he's really freaking out, I'll wait until he momentarily chills out, and shove a spoonful of peanut butter in his mouth.  And then, the egg hater LOVES quiche.  Don't ask me why, it didn't make sense to me either.

Oh - peanut butter. He can't talk with peanut butter in his mouth, either! (I'm kidding.) I am trying to get more protein into him, with sporadic success. It definitely does help, at least a little.

Your DS1 sounds like my ds - I'm not too excited about having more kids b/c I know they probably won't talk as early!

Mine have been all over the map. DS1 was really early. DD1 was even earlier (but only by about a month, so considering the much discussed gender gap, ds1 was probably the earliest, in terms of "normal development" - a concept that has become increasingly meaningless in my life. DS2 was quite late. DD2 is also late, probably because she can't get a word in edgewise, but her progress is happening completely differently than ds2's did. He did one word, then months later another one, then months later a couple more - then suddenly came up with literally 100 words in three days. DD2 is chugging along, adding a word here, a word there, in the same fashion as ds1 and dd1, but more slowly. I can only identify about a half dozen words from her, but I know she's working on some others.