New Posts  All Forums:
 

Hello! Newbie here... - Page 2

post #21 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by dayiscoming2006 View Post

Not sure how a doctor or midwife is a safety net? It's not! That's an illusion. The preferred illusion. They could be the very person that causes you or your baby harm.  Far more likely with them than on your own. I've known plenty of ignorant doctors and at least two ignorant midwifes. Me too! And it took me my whole young life to realize this. I've known 2 somewhat decent doctors my whole life and they still prescribe nasty meds and stuff that don't actually help because that's what they are told. I call them somewhat decent as they were open to allowing a patient to have their own opinion. That really seems hard to find. I've also known docs that have made serious wrong judgement and risked the lives of their patients.What's alarming is how many patients don't even realize that they were among the risked. Many of these folks end up thanking their doctors! Laboring women like us (like me) in the hospital used like guinea pigs on drugs that weren't approved for the uses they were administering them. A common occurrence. I know of one that sent an old family friend home with pneumonia and she ended up dying. My grandma was throwing up a ton over the course of a few weeks and they just kept sending her home - she nearly died of kidney failure - only lived a few more years after that on dialisis though she may have lived longer if they hadn't allowed her kidneys to continue to take all the burden for that long.

My sister was sent home in labor with her 31 weeker and pre- E and a prescription for a medication that was incorrect and not supposed to be prescribed for that condition. Wow, I hadn't even read this part yet. See? I wasn't bs-ing. Thankfully she did manage to go in and get help from a more competent doctor the next day, who stopped her labor and got her transfered somewhere that handles high risk pregnancies better. 

 

And, I have yet to meet a single OB doctor or midwife that seems cool with that natural birthing process. I know there are a few out there but they are hard to find and a person really is taking a gamble as they could tell you what you want to hear and then do whatever they want when the time comes. - Speaking from personal experience.

 

(As far as evolution, I'm staying out of it as I believe in the sovereign God of the Bible and I don't believe evolution co-insides with that.) 


I'm not religious and have absolutely no problems with evolution, and my personal belief is that science and religion don't have to be enemies, but I recognize that many UC-ers are Christians and have certain beliefs that don't mesh with mine. This is just my two cents and not really in any way meant to open a new topic about religion.

post #22 of 49

meepy, you're talking of tight rope walkers and safety nets..... how many people will go deliver their babies "safely" (presumably) in a hospital or birthing center and then opt to drive their family home in a car? hmmmmm........

 

And Daisy--- are you aware that even many christians are coming around and realizing that evolution is not something that one can just opt not to believe in, the evidence is overwhelming.... I've heard lots of christians posit the idea that possibly evolution is part of god's design?

post #23 of 49

I honestly disagree Light but I'm not going there. :) as this isn't a religious forum and I actually think it's against the rules to go into any "debate" about that. 

 

Regardless, I think we can agree on many other things when it comes to UC.

post #24 of 49

I'm sure we would all have a nice little debate on this topic! LOL. I'm just glad and even amazed, in fact, that we can all be a strong sisterhood with the UC thing. I know in many other facets of life, we would probably find ourselves butting heads. I think it's incredible that we can converge on this issue, and it's beautiful. If only more people were able to find unity, rather than separation from one another... :D                     grouphug.gif

post #25 of 49
Thread Starter 

Wow this got a little heated while I was away! LOL (I did stop reading after awhile, sorry I hate debates can't keep up ADD) I've been off doing lots of research! And feeling more confidant than ever! I don't fear hospitals or doctors I've had a couple of experiences that weren't ideal with 2 of my births but I have always known that I didn't feel right giving birth there it felt like my privacy was being invaded and my personal choices on how I wanted to birth were not taken seriously but until a few years ago I really didn't know there were all these other options.When I heard about UC it felt like this is what I should be doing. It feels right at this moment.

post #26 of 49

Good for you Maria. I am not sure how this got to be a debate in the first place, but oh well. :) Glad you're able to navigate around it. 

post #27 of 49

sometime hospital births go wrong....sometime midwives are wrong...sometime UC do not end well. There is not way to know.

 

I was reading this story and I was amazed by this "Super homebirther of 9,10 and 11lb babies, transferring to hospital with a stuck baby, the humiliation."

 

Really? Worried about humiliation or being superbirther?  The story ended well and the woman had another child, home birth, later on, thank to the "horrible doctors"

 

There tons of UC in Africa where mothers and children dies in birth all the time, mother left with fistula and leave as outcasts, babies suffer from birth trauma

 

We  in the West are really spoiled with choices. There is back up here even one is home alone....911 and help will be on the way.

 

There is a middle way. Not every birth modality is right for every woman, every baby and every situation.  I am for a woman's choice whatever it is.

post #28 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariamamaof5 View Post

Thank you so much for your responses ladies! I have wanted to have a homebirth since I was pregnant with my 3rd child. When I was in labor with my 4th I was in labor for 3 days I went to the beach and just relaxed and took it as it came on the third day I hung out with my family until the contractions got worse then I just wanted to be alone. In my head I was just wanting to be home and have the baby but my hubby started panicking, rushed me to the hospital where I started being very uncomfortable and it was a big rush to get me on the hospital bed and while all this was happening my hubby agreed to have a medical team that was in training come in the room! Luckily 20min later I had my baby girl. When I found out I was pregnant with my 5th I knew I definitely wanted a homebirth and started looking into midwives, I had never heard of UC up until a month ago. In my heart I know I want and can do it, my hubby on the other hand doesnt think it's a good idea which puts some fear in the back of my head about "what if's" that could possibly happen. So I am doing as everyone recommends research, research, research! 

I TOTALY HEAR YOU! my hubby is a bit concerned about the "what if" and it does make me over think sometimes. I would like to be alone this time. I had a HB with a MW last time and it was way nicer then my hossy birth with DD1. I felt like I was hovered over though. someone following me and telling me what to do overall. dont get me wrong I had a great mw and assistant /doula. we are trying to jump from the hb with a mw to UC also....
 

 

post #29 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

sometime hospital births go wrong....sometime midwives are wrong...sometime UC do not end well. There is not way to know.

....

There tons of UC in Africa where mothers and children dies in birth all the time, mother left with fistula and leave as outcasts, babies suffer from birth trauma

 

We  in the West are really spoiled with choices. There is back up here even one is home alone....911 and help will be on the way.

.....


I'm for the choice of the woman too. I will say comparing here to Africa is definitely a long shot though. They aren't exactly in the best conditions there. They tend to be a lot less healthy and have hygiene issues - lack of hand washing, etc. 

 

post #30 of 49

Seriously. And to say something like "we here in the West are spoiled with our birth choices"... well we should be. Everyone should be "spoiled" with the opportunity to pick THE best path for them, and I extend that same sentiment to women everywhere. I WANT women in Africa or anywhere to be "spoiled". I want the best for all.

 

Now another issue I take with "spoiled", is that, how exactly are we spoiled when the majority are making choices out of misinformation more than anything? When a woman elects a c-section because someone tells her her baby is too big, or she had a C last time and is better off doing it again, I think that this kind of "spoiling" leads to death. We are certainly spoiling people in the most literal sense! It's hard to call people spoiled in the glamorous figurative sense when I think of the ultimate consequences they are facing, and they don't even seem to know it.

 

And anything happening in the third world is primarily due to the factors surrounding their lifestyle and not childbirth itself. If catastrophe happens to a mother in Africa, it has more to do with her living conditions (poverty, perhaps hygiene as Day mentioned, etc.) than childbirth itself. Most of us in the West ARE a far cry from that. Childbirth itself is not inherently dangerous, it's the other factors that come into play which are. Yet, animals do it every day and seem to fair well. On the other hand, what about the women in Africa who are able to labor unhindered because we haven't put our Western fear and interventions into them? Most African tribes birth alone. Why might that be? Now for women who you apparently feel have so much more to worry about in birth than we do, they handle it as though they can do without all the attendants and interference (and they aren't "spoiled").

 

It's like you feel that just because we have the resources that we must use them. Like having a resource alone is proof enough of its merit. That's not the best logic. That's like if we were all a bunch of rich girls who decided to stop shopping and spending extravagant amounts of money, and you accused us of being spoiled for making that choice. Some don't have the luxury of choice, it's true. It doesn't make those who do and opt to go without their resources automatically "spoiled". Perhaps sometimes they are just smart or right....

 

I feel that choice is never choice until it is no longer manipulated by any one machine or system. I think most Western women are not given a real "choice".

post #31 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamatwoabunch View Post



I TOTALY HEAR YOU! my hubby is a bit concerned about the "what if" and it does make me over think sometimes. I would like to be alone this time. I had a HB with a MW last time and it was way nicer then my hossy birth with DD1. I felt like I was hovered over though. someone following me and telling me what to do overall. dont get me wrong I had a great mw and assistant /doula. we are trying to jump from the hb with a mw to UC also....
 

 

I have been doing so much research, watching videos, reading threads that I have become more confidant in myself and am very excited for this experience. My hubby is learning also (although he still questions me). I still think about the what if's from time to time but there are what if's no matter what you do in life, but that's the whole point of doing the research and gaining the knowledge to know what do when/if a situation should occur. :) I feel like I can finally have what I have always wanted in a birth, to be able to labor alone with out distractions, to be able to move around and give birth in the position I chose, to be in the comfort of my own home with my family, and to be able to enjoy my new little one without distractions.
 

 

post #32 of 49

Shoulder distocia and few other thing have nothing to do with poverty or hygiene. And prolonged labor is elading cause of fistual in Africa...it does not happens here because women here do not routinely birth for 3-4 days.

 

Again, people should do what they feel they should do, but every single type of childbirth had risks.  It is nto an inherentely safe  eterprise for either mom or the baby. I guess I am influces by my sumer on the far, where I seen thing go naturally and badly. 

post #33 of 49

Alenushka, things that you are describing are very rare. There are real dangers to doctor and sometimes midwife attended births too because of unnecessary interventions. Also, shoulder distocia can often be fixed by a change in mother's position. Laying on the back while pushing out a baby is one of the dumbest positions a mom could be in. I'm rather certain about the rules of this forum that whomever posts is supposed to be supportive of UC. I'm not getting that vibe from you. Though I assume the moderator(s) must have been busy lately considering some of the things that have been passing on the board that haven't been allowed in the past?

post #34 of 49

..


Edited by jasmin85 - 4/5/11 at 2:34pm
post #35 of 49

My "crap rant" as you put it is merely my opinion as founded on my experiences and also my years of education and research on the topic-- both from mainstream and then from more alternative view points. If I seem defensive it's because my position deserves defending, because it's worthy.

 

Your point of view is not somehow better than mine just because you come here and you say so. It was far less eloquent and less thought out than what I and most moms here are saying. It was only derogatory and abrasive, IMO. You talk about how "lovely" your choices are, like you're the authority? Get over yourself.

post #36 of 49

PS-- if you truly don't care what any of us do, and it's of no consequence to you, why are you here? why all the judgment? You're free to get out. Spend your time on something more valuable, that you DO actually care about.

post #37 of 49

And... (lol) who doesn't have a back up plan? Who was mad at the idea of having a back up plan? I missed that part. All of us here are well prepared and in favor of having plans.

post #38 of 49

Deleted


Edited by jasmin85 - 4/13/11 at 2:40pm
post #39 of 49

Deleted.

post #40 of 49


Responses, now in technicolor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by numbersbyjasmin View Post

My point of view is not better than yours, and yours is not better than mine, and that was part of the point. I felt you were attacking people for feeling different than you do about UC and for potentially choosing a different birth experience.  I never said my choices were better, only for me it works, and I said that.  I came to this forum to learn about different experiences, techniques and opinions.  My issue with your arguing was that it appeared that instead of just backing up your thoughts and views you were judging other people for being so "ignorant" to accept the "man's" form of giving birth due to "the man's medical worries".  Well, I think you've pretty much got it. Not so much the judgy part, but the part of my philosophy on birth. I feel we all were going according to THE MAN'S birth. Before you immediately discount me, I would ask you-- what makes you think that's not true? Obviously something led me to believe in this, after having a much more conventional and mainstream opinion myself of birth previously. Then I "awakened". What do you expect me to say or to feel? If you were me and you felt your eyes had been opened to the truth, would you keep silent about it, and in a forum relating specifically to your topic of all places???? And that is all.  I think it is great, and amazing, that anyone would want to have an unassisted childbirth.  I was looking into it as a viable option, or at least to hear about what the back-up plans are, what concerns there are, and success stories.  My issue never was UC. I was only upset with your angry words about those ignorant people (like me) who would choose to have a midwife.  Okay, so your issue is that you took it personally. Let me for the record say that when speaking to you I would never call you ignorant. That word itself is offensive to people and my goal would not be to strike out at or hurt you. What I would say however, on my own personal belief, is that you are perhaps misled. This isn't because you are stupid. I was misled too. We all were. There is a problem with the system, it is broken, it does not serve us. This is not about me versus you. This is about the way we were all conditioned to view birth in our society, and THAT is what is ignorant and wrong.

 

Yes, I didn't add anything of use to the board, and I'm sorry.  It's just that instead of informing people of why it is so fabulous to just trust your own instincts and how little generally goes wrong and what makes UC amazing and possible, it only sounded like you should have UC because all doctors/midwives are medical nazis who don't care about you or your birth. A lot of us here are saying things that sound that way. We are not generalizing that all of them suck, but we are saying that they don't know what's best for you and that you can do better. If we sound bitter or hurt, please take into account that we are speaking from our own personal experiences. We are entitled to feel how we feel. A lot of us are healing from the past pain we've dealt with, so don't deny us our hurt feelings. And, while I do agree that medical intervention is too frequent and likely unnecessary and so on and so forth and I'm not for doctors/hospitals either, I was genuinly surprised to see midwives lumped together with the general medical population. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Ah, then you have much to discover, grasshopper. I suppose I took it a little personally, being that I adore my midwives and trust in them to let my birth experience unfold as it will. Precisely. And good for you/lucky you. (Silly me)  It is not because of medical intervention possibility that I feel more comfortable, it is because of the support system. I don't believe in needing a support system during birth. I believe that I need only rely on myself. I don't need reassurances from others and it would be my hope that you could feel comfortable without that, too. If you really think it helps or you need that, I can't stop you. Go for it. I think it brings both my husband and myself comfort in knowing that someone knows what to do and when and that everything is A-OK, or if it were not. Of course it does! It's about comfort. It's about ability.   I guess I just don't trust in myself well enough to be home without anyone assisting. That seems to be the case.  And, well, maybe that's a little sad, but I'm OK with it. Are you really? Because I don't think you are. I think that's why you are here, saying what you are saying to me right now. I think if you probe a little deeper, you'll discover that you are not feeling so at peace with this.  I think it is fascinating that there is such a large community of people who feel able and willing to give birth without anyone other than their partner or various family members present.  Amazing.  Part of me agrees with you, but this is what is so sad with our society... that this has become such a foreign concept that we really do find it amazing, and that sometimes UCers are heralded as heroes or pillars of strength and femininity. What a sad state of things, that humanity has come to this! We totally bought into the past 200 years of medicalized birth.

 

And yes, my thoughts on the subject don't matter.  Although, if you haven't noticed, I am not against UC, only I don't see it as something I would come to terms with for my own birth. One day you will. :)  Although, a lot can happen in 8 months, so who knows?  Perhaps with more information...  *nods*  It's already within you. You already know.

 

 

ALSO NOTE:  I know it came off wrong when I said "I could care less what any of you choose to do"  I didn't mean it as it sounds, I was stupidly trying to say literally it doesn't bother me that you choose UC or that I don't.  It came off completely wrong, and yes, I was just angry ranting.  Again, sorry.  I, stupidly, didn't even re-read it before sending.  My apologies, I usually don't do that-- I'm going to remove my post.  I can admit when I am wrong and was being an idiot.




It's all good. Rocky start, but I think you're okay.