what form of fluoride to give

[Snapdragon]

hi- this is a question about what form of flluoride to give my one year old.  I know plenty of people are totally against giving any fluoride to babies- but I think it is useful for their teeth. I had plenty of dental problems in my adult life ( not in my childhood- my parents took good care of my teeth, it was my own neglect throughout my 20's that caused the problems), and have as a result become very proactive about protecting my and ds's teeth.

At any rate, I brush with fluoride toothpaste and also brush ds's teeth with a small am't of it every day. I have read and do believe that it is important to build the strength of both the baby teeth and the future adult teeth, and to me the benefits out weigh the potential risks.

so here is my question: I have been thinking using the toothpaste is fine as a method to get fluoride in the right am't to his teeth. We had our pediatrician appointment today and the doctor said it would be better to give ds fluoride drops, and not the fluoride toothpaste- so that I would know the exact am't I was giving him.  But also he said I should just give it to him to injest and that it would get into his system and make it to his teeth.

Since the reason I am doing it at all is for his teeth, it seems safer to me to give him the small am't of fluoride toothpaste. That is what feels like the right thing to do but I am wondering. then again I just read that too much makes the teeth brittle, so maybe the drops are safer.

So those of you who Do use fluoride for your littles, do you think it is better to do it in toothpaste or give the drops?

[WifeofAnt]

You didn't say whether or not your water is fluoridated (by the government or by nature).  If there's already fluoride in the water there's no reason to give fluoride drops.  Also, kids under 2 aren't supposed to be using fluoridated toothpastes (unless instructed to by dentist or other health professional).

[Snapdragon]

 There is no flouride in our water

[Snapdragon]

I get lots of mixed messages about if I should be giving ds (one yr old) fluoride. His pediatrician obviously thinks I should as he perscribed the drops. But I don't always do what the doctor wants- for example we do no vaccinations.

The dr Sears book says fluoride is necessary but I am not sure he specifies age.

From how I understand it, fluoride is useful to strengthen both the baby and the underlying adult teeth. It is really important to me to do what I can to protect his teeth! where I live there is no fluoride in the water and I
 do know people who have had their babies have lots of cavities and they have thought perhaps it was contributed to by lack of fluoride. So I am not sure- it seems like it is okay to me, given the small am't of toothpaste I use.

At any rate- still wondering what people think of small am't of toothpaste versus drops?

[bird_verde]

I would also feel better about using the toothpaste instead of the drops as long as I was sure that my LO was not swallowing it.  From what I understand, fluoride kills bacteria in the mouth that causes decay.  is that right? then you are protecting the teeth enough with the external application of toothpaste.  I also understand that ingested fluoride builds up in the body and is stored in the bones and glands. It also puts a burden on the kidneys to process the fluoride in your system. That would not make me feel good about putting a toxin in the small body of my child. 

One interesting thing around here is that we do not have fluoride in our water.  All of the dentists around here push for all of the kids to take fluoride pills or drops. More than a few of the kids that I know in middle school and high school have fluoridosis (sp?).

[Knitting Mama]

Originally Posted by bird_verde 

I would also feel better about using the toothpaste instead of the drops as long as I was sure that my LO was not swallowing it.  From what I understand, fluoride kills bacteria in the mouth that causes decay.  is that right? then you are protecting the teeth enough with the external application of toothpaste.  I also understand that ingested fluoride builds up in the body and is stored in the bones and glands. It also puts a burden on the kidneys to process the fluoride in your system. That would not make me feel good about putting a toxin in the small body of my child.

This is what I understand it to be as well.

[Snapdragon]

wow- that is interesting to know- about lots of kids having that excess of fluoride things. Glad I confirmed my instinct about not giving him the drops.

okay- so now I can open the discussion more to see what do you all think about using the fluoride toothpaste for my one year old? He probably does swallow some. Do you guys think that i should wait on the fluoride toothpaste till he is older? I just want to be really proactive about his teeth after all the difficult thing sI had to go through with my own. I was pretty stupid about my own dental care for years and so now I tend to swing in the other direction. It is difficult to sort through some things- I know I tend to not believe much of what the doctors tell me! My pediatrician wants me to give the baby multivitamin and iron supplements- and I don't at all- I wont, I feel that he gets all that fine from breastmilk and healthy food. But fluoride feels like a different thing to me.

Do you think it is potentially harmful to brush his teeth w- fluoride toothpaste? It is just that I have heard of so many people whose babies had cavities- and I want to try to avoid that if I can for my son. So I guess I believe that fluoride in toothpaste is good for protecting his teeth. thoughts?

Just to clarify what I mean in this post- I feel supported in my decision to not get and use the drops. But do you guys think using it at all, in the toothpaste, should also be avoided at this age?

[Snapdragon]

okay- now I am really starting to second guess myself, after doing a little internet research, on how safe it is to use fluoride toothpaste for my one year old. Now I have mommy guilt!! Of course I am trying to do what is best. But I can't seem to figure out what that is in this case. I feel like if I don't give him fluoride toothpaste I am putting him at risk for decay. But if I do I am putting him at risk for fluoridosis or whatever it is called! So what to do?

[carmen358]

My dentist suggested MI Paste for DD who is 15 months. I don't know much about it though and haven't used it before. Dentist was very adamant that we not use fluoride at this point.

[P.J.]

Personally, we avoid fluoride. There is enough evidence that it can cause harm, that I'd rather not take the chance. IMO cavities suck, but are fixable and probably a lot less traumatic than the myriad of health problems linked to regular fluoride consumption. So I'll risk Max getting a few cavities if it comes down to that. Besides, with regular good oral hygeine and checkups, plus avoiding sugar, I think most kids can avoid getting cavities anyway.

[Greenlea]

Originally Posted by P.J. 

Personally, we avoid fluoride. There is enough evidence that it can cause harm, that I'd rather not take the chance. IMO cavities suck, but are fixable and probably a lot less traumatic than the myriad of health problems linked to regular fluoride consumption. So I'll risk Max getting a few cavities if it comes down to that. Besides, with regular good oral hygeine and checkups, plus avoiding sugar, I think most kids can avoid getting cavities anyway.

^^Yes, this.

The FDA has recently come out saying that fluoride is a poison and should not be given to young kids. "...growing evidence supporting the chemical’s possible deleterious effects to children’s health. "  I would stop giving your young child the toothpaste, and don't do drops.  "[It is] capable of putting children at risk of developing other dental problems including the breakdown of tooth enamel, discoloration and pitting."  So essentially, you could be causing more dental harm, than good!  Even as an adult, it is not good for you.  It is a chemical bi-product that was introduced as "good for you" due to industry lobbiest.

Read this article (which is where I got my quotes from) http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/02/22/epa-reverses-fluoride/?cmpid=cmty_fb_Gigya_EPA_Reverses_Itself_on_Fluoride

[Knitting Mama]

I think that waiting until your babe is over 2 and then using fluoride toothpaste is a good, happy medium, Snapdragon. That's the general recommendation, anyway, I think.

[Snapdragon]

thanks everyone.  Good suggestions!

[Llyra]

I think the reason you're not finding clear answers anywhere is that we really don't know. There is this long-standing practice of giving fluoride, that led to flouride being put in so many city water supplies, and to the practice of prescribing fluoride for kids who don't get fluoridated water. But there is also a lot of evidence emerging that we may have been mistaken in those practices. The issue is extremely controversial, and so there really are no clear answers. You'll likely run into peds, dentists, and parents who believe either way is the best decision, and both of them will have what seem to them very good reasons.

We don't use fluoride toothpaste in our house, and we have a filter installed that removes fluoride from the water my kids drink. I do allow the topical fluoride treatments they give at the dentist. But that's our take on it-- we've decided that in the absence of clear answers, it's better to err on the safe side.

[Snapdragon]

 yes. I guess this is the case= that it is still unclear. I know when I was younger (in my 20's- I am 38 now) lots of my friends were against flouride- and I didn't use it for many years= but as I said I then had dental problems- not from that really, just other things= but anyway. I know I will use fluoride toothpaste for ds- and I and dh use it- and I think it is good for our teeth/. I just have to decide if I should stop using it for ds while he is so little. I am going to consider it strongly.

[goldenwillow]

A few things to check out.  Working for a holistic dentist proved to me that doing our research is so damn important before considering this toxin.  PM me if you'd like. 

http://www.ewg.org/search

http://www.iaomt.org/articles/category_view.asp?intReleaseID=196&month=10&year=2006&catid=30

Try these routes instead...

http://www.uncleharrys.com/store/index.php/cPath/48

[rlee*]

NONE! flouride is poison!

[goldenwillow]

Originally Posted by rlee* 

NONE! flouride is poison!

You got it!

[bird_verde]

This is a very interesting thread.  snapdragon, I think you are asking all the right questions for the right reasons.  I think dental hygeine is much more important than using fluoride as a catch-all for cavity-free teeth.

FWIW, I have also had dental problems and dd1 had cavities by the time she was 18 months - all within the same year.  That was an aweful experience.  In my experience, the reason I needed a root canal and the reason dd1 got cavities was because I was not taking care of our teeth, not even paying attention to them.   I don't think it had anything to do with fluoride. Truth: I was not flossing my teeth, I would go to bed without brushing more often than not and I was eating sugar.  For dd, I was ignorant on taking care of baby teeth. I never brushed them with any regularity - when I did brush, it was only for the "fun" of putting a baby toothbrush in her mouth for a minute - a distraction if she was fussy.  I never made attempts to make sure plaque was not accumulating on her gumline (and that is where she had all of her cavities). I don't think many moms will admit that they didn't take care of their baby's teeth and that is why they got cavities.  And the dentist or hygenist will make the mom feel less guilty by saying things like - "there was nothing you could do to prevent it,"  "her teeth are just prone to getting cavities," or "she isn't getting enough fluoride - here is a perscription." 

Through my own expereince and in being honest with myself and talking frankly with a trusted hygenist, I have determined that fluoride is not a magic pill (or drop).  It is more important to brush well and floss than to even use fluoride toothpaste or mouthwash.  This is how I am approaching my family's dental care now.  DD1 is now 6 - I never gave her fluoride pills or drops - I just became vigilant about brushing. She has not gotten another cavity.  I had gotten used to getting cavities drilled and filled every other year or so since I was a teenager.  I am happy to say that I haven't had a cavity in the past 4 years since I started having better dental hygeine (and trying to eat less sugar ).

Also, I have recently started to use xylitol products to aid in killing bacteria in the mouth instead of fluoride.  I think this is a better option for small children as I have not heard or read that it even comes close to the toxicity of fluoride.  There are xylitol wipes that parents use for wiping the gums and teeth of little ones. As this product is new to me, I would be interested in anyone's expereince with xylitol - good or bad.

[Snapdragon]

bird_verde

I totally agree that the key is a good dental hygeine routine.  Because I had my dental problems before I became a parent, I have been brushing (gently) ds's teeth since they came in. He only has almost 8 right now. Thankfully at present he doesn't mind when I brush and lets me do it- he even seems to like it!! I Am not sure that I am getting at the gum line though as it is hard to brush and hold open his mouth to see exactly what I am doing. I am trying to be thorough while also keeping sure that I don't brush aggressively and scare him. I have never flossed his teeth though- I am not sure how I could even do that --  how do you floss a baby's teeth? I mean, it seems like he would not let me do that. At what age should I start flossing them?

I am very glad I asked this here. At first I was pretty sure I should be using fluoride. At this point I am leaning towards getting a non fluoride paste and then using the fluoride one sporadically, so maybe a few times a week. I knew when the doctor said fluoride drops I was like- no! If it were up to the doctor, my one year old would have tons of vaccinations, fluoride drops, iron supplements and multivitamins!! crazy IMO and way too toxifiying for a little one. But once the baby is old enough to spit, I personally am in the camp that fluoride in the right amounts administered in toothpaste is a beneficial thing. I looked on old threads on here and there are miles and miles of discussion on pro or anti fluoride, and I read some of it. Like a previous poster said, there are clearly differing opinions on this.  But it does seem like everyone is saying that one is too young for fluoride toothpaste. Except, I guess, the mainstream doctors hwo told me to give him the drops! So I guess in that respect not everyone is against fluoride for babies.