Grandparent Visitation~Venty Update #39

[Phoenix~Mama]

I got my court date in the mail yesterday for the ridiculous suit with Ex's Mom.  I have prepared a letter to read from for the conference with the custody Masters.  Please give feedback!  My Mom is super worried that I'm going to come across disrespectful or petty and I will lose my kids.  I don't know what all a Master is capable of doing, but I've heard some crazy custody stories.  I tried to be as straightforward as possible, but I think emotion bled into some areas, hard not to since, um, well many many many UAV things I can say about these people.  *sighs*  So here it is...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your Honor, I would like to request a dismissal of this case, based on the fact that access to visit the children has never been denied to "EX's Mom".

It is my understanding that the Grandparent Visitation Act is for circumstances where the grandparents had a relationship with the grandchildren prior to a divorce and are now being denied access?

"EX's Mom" has never been denied access, and did not have a prior relationship with my children, under her own decisions.

"EX's Mom" chose to not have anything to do with my daughter, "name", for the first 18 months of her life, and she only began seeing DD at this point in time because this is the time DD's Father, "name", began living with "EX's Mom" and he would have his parenting visits at the "name" residence.  This began in July 2010. 

Prior to July 2010, EX and myself made various attempts to extend invitations to "EX's Mom" to come visit her grandchildren (as EX also has an older daughter from a previous marriage, who "EX's Mom" is not trying to get visitation with).  However, all but one invitation was turned down.  The invitation "EX's Mom" accepted was in May 2009.  However, when the day came that the visit was scheduled for, "EX's Mom" informed EX by phone that morning, that she was unable to come for the visit because it was, “too nice of a day and she needed to garden.”  EX and I decided that it was causing us too much stress and emotional anxiety to keep trying to set up something for "EX's Mom" to see the children, as she repeatedly turned down the offer or cancelled.  We came to the conclusion that she did not really care to have a relationship with our children.

EX and I separated May 2010.  After the separation, EX resided with "EX's Mom" from July 1, 2010 until October 31, 2010.  EX's parenting visitation schedule is every other weekend and "EX's Mom" would have been able to see DD during each of these weekends, however, she chose to deny permission to EX to have children at the house on two weekends within this time period.  The approx. dates that she chose to not allow DD to come to visit are July 30 – August 1, 2010 and September 17 – September 19, 2010.

During this time, EX and I also chose not to have DD stay at his Mom’s house a weekend in August, approx. dates, August 13 – August 15, 2010.  EX informed me that earlier that week, "name", "EX's Mom" husband, physically assaulted her, and we did not feel comfortable having the children in the house during the time that stress and emotions were high.

My son, "name", was born September 22, 2010, 7 weeks pre-mature, due to my development of pre-eclampsia and HELLP syndrome.  He was born not breathing and had to be intubated.  He had a month long NICU stay, and I’d like to note that "EX's Mom" only visited DS once in that time.

DS still has under developed lungs and is at higher risk for RSV, and other lung infections.  EX and I were in agreement that we would wait until DS was stable for EX to take him for visitation.  This did not happen until Thanksgiving 2010. 

EX continued having his parenting visitation weekends at "EX's Mom" house after he moved out in October 2010, unless "EX's Mom" chose to not allow him to go there.

"EX's Mom" cancelled the following weekends in the time frame of November 2010 – Present:

January 14 – January 16, 2011

February 25 – February 27, 2011

March 25 – March 27, 2011

EX and I chose to not have the kids go to "EX's Mom" house one time during this time period, March 11 – March 13, 2011, as earlier this week is when I was served papers notifying me of this suit against me.  EX and I both feel that this suit has nothing to do with the children and is a personal attack trying to cause drama.  EX tried to talk to his Mom about the suit that week and she told him, that she knew I would be “unreasonable to her requests to take the children anytime she wanted, so she was just going to take me to court.”  EX and I chose not to send the children this weekend and to try to let things cool down for the time.

The weekend of March 25 – March 27, 2011, EX and I were in agreement that he could take the children back to his Mom’s house as a sign of good faith that we would never deny all access to the children, however, when EX attempted to call his Mom to set this up, she refused all of his phone calls and did not return any of his voice messages. 

I’d also like to note the weekend of January 14 – January 16, 2011, DS was hospitalized due to pneumonia and RSV, a by-product of his prematurity and high risk to lung infections.  However, EX was still going to take DD and his eldest daughter to "EX's Mom" house for the visit, as well as visiting at the hospital.  "EX's Mom" not only cancelled this weekend, but also did not come to visit her grandson in the hospital.

Given that two of her weekend cancellations were during times that either myself or my son were hospitalized, so there was already high stress, it’s hard to not feel like "EX's Mom" only likes to create more stress and drama, which is NOT beneficial to the children.

I would like to request to be able to continue making sound decisions in the best interest of my children.  As "EX's Mom" still is the grandmother to my children, I will not deny her access, and she is welcome to visit the children in their home anytime she wishes.  However, I would like to note that I am very uncomfortable to ever let "EX's Mom" take my children without either myself or their father, EX, present. 

Given her history of lack of involvement in my children’s lives, from her own decisions, I’m actually very confused as to why she is bringing this suit against me in the first place, as all time lost with the children has been due to her own choices.

Thank you, your Honor, for your thought and consideration in this matter.

[MeepyCat]

Second paragraph is not a question, so no question mark there.

Eighth paragraph, I'd drop the note that the grandma only visited your son once while he was in hospital.  I would delete the other mentions of her not visiting in hospital as well.  Do mention, however, that her cancellation of otherwise planned visits while your DS was hospitalized resulted in stress and inconvenience, and deprived your daughters of their father's undivided attention and care at a time when you were stretched thin, with two kids at home and one hospitalized.

The reason I think you should lean on that point is that the complainant's cancellation of parental visits at her home has been detrimental to the best interests of the children, not just in preventing them from visiting their father, but in other ways as well.

Overall, I think the letter is good.  You and your ex sound committed to your children's welfare, and like you are working really well together to share parenting and facilitate each other's relationships with the kids.  Awesome.  You've made offers, she's turned them down, and the selectivity of the suit is extremely suspicious.

[AttunedMama]

Personally, I'd cut way back. I know it's tempting to share ample info, and I do think you should have different anecdotes written out and available for further explanation if asked. Judges are busy, efficient people and from my (limited) court experience, appreciate highly-condensed explanations and brevity.

She/He will understand "We offered repeated visits which were declined or cancelled. She is welcome to come to the children's home to see them twice a month for two hours(or whatever you are actually willing to deal with). There is no reason for a suit. She may exercise supervised visits at any reasonable time. If you would like to hear why she is not capable of taking my children unsupervised, I can provide detailed information on her poor decision-making skills. Obviously, her choice to file frivolous suit is a good start. I believe this case is outside of the scope of this court's job, and I ask that the case be dismissed"

Also, don't be so meek as to ASK to 'keep' making good decisions for your kids. Assert it, respectfully, and move on.

I am hesitant to even respond to your thread, because it's such a high-stakes situation. Please, please take what I say as just another way to see it, not as 'advice' so much.

[ZoeyZoo]

I have to provide summaries like this at work to busy executives. It might be worth summarizing the position at the top like Attuned Mama mentioned and then you can have a timeline section below if the judge wants more details. Something like this:

Summary

xxxxxxxx

Timeline

2011

* xxxxxx

* xxxxxx

2010

* xxxxxx

* xxxxxx

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by ZoeyZoo 

I have to provide summaries like this at work to busy executives. It might be worth summarizing the position at the top like Attuned Mama mentioned and then you can have a timeline section below if the judge wants more details. Something like this:

Summary

xxxxxxxx

Timeline

2011

* xxxxxx

* xxxxxx

2010

* xxxxxx

* xxxxxx

This is exactly how the record of visits looks that we just turned into the Judge. It goes down by date and a brief description of if ex saw ds and, if he did, for how many hours. If I wrote it all out in paragraph form it would be 20 pages long, and there's no way a Judge would actually read that.

Since you have all the dates you could do that, just go down by each weekend showing when she saw the kids and when she chose not to.

[ArtsyMomma]

Be careful of heresay. I'm not a lawyer, I don't even pretend to be one on TV. My ex took me to court to try and get full custody of the kids a few years ago (I believe his crazy ex put him up to it - it was a real disaster), the judge took one look at his 'evidence' called it heresay and threw it on the floor. He refused to even look at it. I notice a lot of 'he said, she said' in your statement. I would just stick to the facts.

Advice my lawyer gave me...

Dress nice, even if it's family court.

Stay Calm, Breathe Deep. Angry outbursts and excess emotion (rolling eyes, angry looks, etc) will work against you.

Speak ONLY when you are spoken too. Answer in clear, brief statements. (In my case, he said only answer "Yes Sir" or "No Sir".

[Phoenix~Mama]

Yeah... I know the dress nice part is killing me.  I don't fit into any of my old dress suits I used to have to wear for work.  And I certainly don't have extra money to go buy a suit to hopefully just wear once.

I have black and gray dress slacks for work now, which are okay... but certainly not any, what I feel to be, good court professional looking tops.  They are dressy tops, but I tend to dress in a lot of patterns... and I wish I had something solid and a little more old school classic to wear to court.  :-/  I don't even have a blazer to go with any top, it's just not needed for where I work now... I basically just sit in a cubicle all day doing computer things.  lol

I have a nice solid sweater to wear with the dress slacks... do you think that will be alright?  Will work on getting this into just an outline.

Is it hearsay if I heard his Mom say it?

[Super~Single~Mama]

Yes its hearsay if your heard his mom say it.  Save all the he-said, she-said for trial, IF you make it that far.  The judge WILL NOT order anything until and unless there is a TRIAL.  You asking for the suit to be dismissed, and getting in front of a judge is not a trial, its an appearance. 

As for dressing, wear your dress slacks (you aren't expected to look like a lawyer, just neat) and one of your shirts.  As long as its not wrinkled, it'll be fine (although I would try to avoid a super crazy ridiculous pattern - go for something a little more laid back).

I agree also with keeping your letter short and sweet.  The shorter the better.  Only include relevant information.

[Phoenix~Mama]

Okay, I have shortened the text and made an outline... how is this?  (checked with ex, and turns out I was wrong about the cancelation while I was in hospital, though we both are pretty sure she did cancel when DS was in the hospital).

~~~~~~~

I would like to request a dismissal of this case, based on the fact that access to visit the children has never been denied to "EX's Mom".

"EX's Mom" chose to not have anything to do with my daughter, "name", for the first 18 months of her life, and she only began seeing DD in July 2010 because this is the time DD's Father, "name", began living with "name" and he would have his parenting visits at the "EX's Mom" residence.  Offers and attempts were made prior to July 2010 to foster a relationship between "EX's Mom" and her grandchild, to no avail.

EX and I separated May 2010.  EX's parenting visitation schedule is every other weekend and "EX's Mom" would have been able to see DD during each of these weekends, however, she chose to deny permission to EX to have children at the house on several weekends, outlined below.

2010 Weekends

July 16-18 ~ DD went

July 30 – August 1 ~ "EX's Mom" cancelled visit

August 13 – 15 ~ EX and I cancelled visit due to "EX's Mom"'s husband physically assaulting her this week

August 27 -29 ~ DD went

September 10 – 12 ~ DD went

September 17 – 19 ~ EX picked up this weekend due to my hospitalization

September 24 -26 ~ DD went

October 8 -10 ~ DD went

October 22 – 24 ~ DD went

November 5-7 ~ DD went

November 19 – 21 ~ DD went

December 3 – 5 ~ DD & DS went

December 17 – 19 ~ DD & DS went

December 31 – January 2, 2011 ~ EX cancelled

2011 Weekends

January 14 – 16 ~ "EX's Mom" cancelled (DS in hospital this weekend)

January 28 – 30 ~ DD & DS went

February 18 – 20 ~ DD & DS went

February 25 – 27 ~ "EX's Mom" cancelled

March 11 – 13 ~ EX and I cancelled (letting things cool down due to notice of law suit)

March 25 – 27 ~ "EX's Mom" did not return any phone calls or voicemails to EX to set up this visit

April 8 – 10 ~ EX cancelled 8^th, so far the 9^th overnight into 10^th is scheduled as okay for kids to go

[SleeplessMommy]

I would add this to the summary:

(date of dd's birth) through may 2010

ex mIl was invited to come see dd at our home on 15 occasions and declined.

we offered to bring dd to mil's home on 12 occasions and she accepted once.

(or whatever the approximate numbers are)

[AttunedMama]

Mama, have you talked to a lawyer? How is your ex participating in this?

[Phoenix~Mama]

I talked to a lawyer and she thinks it should get dismissed pretty easily because it's obvious the grandparents have seen the kids.  There is no reason for this to even be a law suit.  No one was ever denied access to the kids!!!  Which is what the BS grandparent visitation act is for.

I don't have $500 to blow on obtaining my lawyer's full services for this either.  So I'm going without a lawyer to the conference.  She is pretty confident that I will be okay doing so as these people have no ground to stand on really and are totally abusing the system.

EX is participating in that he backs me that his Mom and Stepdad should not have unsupervised visits with the kids ever.  He takes them there and that should be enough.  It is for any other grandparent anyway.  :rolleyes  I mean really... what normal grandparents sues to see their grandkids more and on their terms only?  *sighs*  This whole thing is so ridiculous.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

I don't have $500 to blow on obtaining my lawyer's full services for this either.  So I'm going without a lawyer to the conference.  She is pretty confident that I will be okay doing so as these people have no ground to stand on really and are totally abusing the system.

I agree that you don't need her full services.  Would she be willing to read your letter and give you feedback on it though?  She should be able to do that very cheaply, and then you'll know if you're on the right track with your letter.

Good luck!!

[Super~Single~Mama]

My changes in Red.  If you don't like them, thats OK, just suggestions.
 

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

Okay, I have shortened the text and made an outline... how is this?  (checked with ex, and turns out I was wrong about the cancelation while I was in hospital, though we both are pretty sure she did cancel when DS was in the hospital).

~~~~~~~

I would like to request a dismissal of this case, Due to "Ex's Mom" being offered access, and then declining the same.

"Ex's mom" did not see DD until she was 18 mo despite being invited (approx number of times) to our house, and our offering to visit her house.  "Ex's mom" began fostering a relationship on (insert date) when "Ex" began living with "Ex's mom" and "Ex" had visitation hours at her residence.

 "Ex's mom" has had an opportunity to see DD each weekend that "Ex" has had visitation since May 2010 (I would insert the date that she started refusing to have visitation at her home here, since there was visitation at her house for several months), however she has declined these opportunities.  "Ex's mom" still has the opportunity to see DD on "Ex" visitation weekends.  Please see a list of the opportunities that "Ex's mom" has had to visit with DD and DS since May 2010 (or whenever she stopped allowing visitation at her home) attached below.

As "Ex's mom" has never been  denied the opportunity to form a meaningful relationship with DD and DS, I respectfully ask the Court to dismiss this case. 

Sincerely

PM

2010 Weekends

July 16-18 ~ DD visited from (insert times visited)

July 30 – August 1 ~ "EX's Mom" cancelled due to domestic violence in "Ex's mom" residence.

August 13 – 15 ~ EX and I cancelled (why?)

August 27 -29 ~ DD visited from (insert times visited)

September 10 – 12 ~ DD visited from (insert times visited)

September 17 – 19 ~ DD visited from (insert times visited)

September 24 -26 ~ DD visited from (insert times visited)

October 8 -10 ~ DD DD visited from (insert times visited)

October 22 – 24 ~ DD visited from (insert times visited)

November 5-7 ~ DD visited from (insert times visited)

November 19 – 21 ~ DD visited from (insert times visited)

December 3 – 5 ~ DD & DS visited from (insert times visited)

December 17 – 19 ~ DD & DS visited from (insert times visited)

December 31 – January 2, 2011 ~ EX cancelled (insert reason, even if its BS)

2011 Weekends

January 14 – 16 ~ "EX's Mom" cancelled (DS being in hospital is irrelevant - save that for a trial, that hopefully won't happen)

January 28 – 30 ~ DD & DS visited from (insert times visited)

February 18 – 20 ~ DD & DS visited from (insert times visited)

February 25 – 27 ~ "EX's Mom" cancelled (insert reason if there is one)

March 11 – 13 ~ EX and I cancelled

March 25 – 27 ~ "EX's Mom" refused to accept calls to set up a visit

April 8 – 10 ~ EX cancelled 8^th, so far the 9^th overnight into 10^th is scheduled as okay for kids to go

Ok, those are my suggestions.  You could also use a calendar and highlight in one color the dates that YOU and EX cancelled, one color for the dates SHE canceled, and one color for the dates they visited.  You don't need to give too many details, just make it clear that there is no reason for the case to continue.  Good luck, you'll do great!!

[myra_mcgray]

I would leave in the part about both you and ex being in agreement to not allow unsupervised visitation. Good Luck

[Phoenix~Mama]

Thank you SSMama!   Will work more on this. 

I really hope this goes as well as everyone thinks it is going to.  Logically I can't forsee this going to trial.  Logically I think those people should get reamed for wasting everyone's time and resources.  But, then I have also heard/seen things go very against logic... and it has me scared.

[Phoenix~Mama]

Ugh!  Well our plan of "hey they have access to the kids" all got shot out of the water this weekend.

EX took the kids for his visit to his Mom's this weekend... and ended up leaving before bedtime because his Stepdad is a UAV.  His stepdad was rough-housing with the his eldest DD (my kid's half-sister) and he was getting too rough and DSD was telling him to stop and threw a kick at him and he took her leg and flipped her to the ground.  She is 6 years old.  :(  (thankfully she is okay, but she according to EX she was screaming when it happened, and screamed for awhile) 

EX got into it with his Stepdad telling him he should know better and he is to never touch his DD again, of course Stepdad wasn't hearing it and getting beligerent.  EX's Mom was backing Stepdad saying it was all DSD's fault for trying to kick Stepdad.  (never mind that Stepdad initiated rough housing and DSD was telling him to stop.  GRR!)

And all of this commotion, screaming, verbal attacks, etc, happening in front of my kids.  Great.

So EX actually made a smart decision and packed up the kids and left.  He actually ended up staying at my parents house with both my kids and his eldest DD.

So now... EX and I are adamantly in the camp that we do want the kids going to that house. Period.  His Stepdad is so mental.  I'm tired of my kids being exposed to this garbage.

Can we really make that decision?  How messed up is it that I have to ask if I can keep my kids away from mentally unstable people just because they are a grandparent an in my state have some sort of "right" to see my kids.  *screams*  This whole thing is so frustrating and stressful.

I want to go into court saying that the kids are not to ever go to that house again for a myariad of reasons... but EX's MOM ONLY is allowed to visit the children in their own home, if it is convenient and set up with one of the children's parents prior to the visit. 

I just want this all to go away.  I don't need to be dealing with court over something so stupid.  I wish I knew it would go as I want it to.  It's ridiculous to even imagine that a judge would rule for grandparent visitation with these UAV unstable people.  :-(

[Kwan*Yin]

If both you and your ex can go into court and state what happened and why it isn't a good idea for the visits to occur then at least you will have tried. My ex's mom attempted suicide and is on a myriad of depression/anxiety medicines and attends daily "mental issue health classes", she neglected my kids when in her care to the point that once she fell asleep and my then 1 1/2 year old walked out of the house and down the street and the police went door to door trying to see where she came from, and she is a convicted drug felon. She won unsupervised rights to see the kids. You just never know. I hope that you are able to get the case dismissed. In my case I was witholding visitation due to my kids grandmas craziness.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Honestly, I would stick to the original game-plan.  Get the suit dismissed, and THEN worry about cutting off visits. 

You can always offer to let them visit with the children outside their home as well - there is no reason they need to visit with the kids at their house - they can be invited to picnics, birthday parties, play groups, etc.  Just b/c they choose not to go, doesn't mean they are being deprived of a relationship. 

Also, the suit about YOUR children, has nothing to do with your step-dd - so I'd be VERY hesitant to bring anything about her into this.

Edited by Super~Single~Mama - 4/11/11 at 8:20am

[Phoenix~Mama]

Originally Posted by Kwan*Yin 

If both you and your ex can go into court and state what happened and why it isn't a good idea for the visits to occur then at least you will have tried. My ex's mom attempted suicide and is on a myriad of depression/anxiety medicines and attends daily "mental issue health classes", she neglected my kids when in her care to the point that once she fell asleep and my then 1 1/2 year old walked out of the house and down the street and the police went door to door trying to see where she came from, and she is a convicted drug felon. She won unsupervised rights to see the kids. You just never know. I hope that you are able to get the case dismissed. In my case I was witholding visitation due to my kids grandmas craziness.

OMG!!!!  What state do you live in?  WTF is wrong with judges???