Grandparent Visitation~Venty Update #39 - Page 2

[rachel527]

Hey, what happened with your court date??

[Phoenix~Mama]

It's next Wednesday...  ugh.

[Phoenix~Mama]

Court tomorrow.... SO NERVOUS!!! 

I hope I can sleep tonight.  :-(

[Super~Single~Mama]

  You'll be fine!!

[Phoenix~Mama]

Okay... I'm having trouble with the last weekend.  And the ending paragraph... I'm not sure if I should just let it go and hope this whole stupid thing gets dismissed... or if I go into the fact that we won't be bringing the kids to that house to visit again due to the stepdad being abusive, and the fact that ex's Mom totally does not care about DS's premature/underdeveloped lungs and also kept smoking last weekend when ex tried to take the kids there, even though it has been told to her over and over that DS's doctors do not want him around smoking, period. 

This is just a conference with the Masters to see if there is a case to go to trial with a judge.. so do I just keep it simple?  But at the same time I'm SOOOO nervous about not mentioning the big things like that.  Things also got really heated last weekend since Ex had to leave and his Mom and Stepdad were yelling at him and threatening him more and it's just BAD.  :-(  I want it known that these people are freakin pyscho and I DON'T want my kids around them anymore.  I think they've been given enough chances!!! 

HELP!? 

2011 Weekends

January 14 – 16 ~ "Ex's Mom" cancelled for unknown reasons

January 28 – 30 ~ DD & DS visited from January 28, 5:00 pm – January 30, 11:00 am

February 18 – 20 ~ DD & DS visited from February 18, 5:00 pm – February 20, 11:00 am

February 25 – 27 ~ "Ex's Mom" cancelled for unknown reasons

March 11 – 13 ~ Ex and I cancelled (letting things cool down due to notice of this petition)

March 25 – 27 ~ "Ex's Mom" did not return any phone calls or voicemails to Ex to set up this visit

April 8 – 10 ~ Ex took the kids to spend the night on the 9^th, however had to leave after a few hours due to his Stepdad, "name", becoming overly physical with his eldest daughter, "name".  Also Ex's Mom kepts smoking, and DS is not to be around smoking, recorded in his medical records.

As "Ex's Mom" has never been denied the opportunity to form a meaningful relationship with DD and DS , I respectfully ask the Court to dismiss this case.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Keep It Simple.  Get the suit dismissed, and then make it known that you will make the children available at public playgrounds for them to see and play with (say this to his parents AFTER the case has been dismissed).

I'm dead serious - saying that he's abusive raises a HUGE question of fact - one that would need to be settled at a trial.  You don't want a trial, so go in with, "The children have been available to facilitate a relationship consistently since XYZ date, and they have refused to show up consistently.  Here's the proof."

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

April 8 – 10 ~ Ex took the kids to spend the night on the 9^th, however had to leave after a few hours due to his Stepdad, "name", becoming overly physical with his eldest daughter, "name".  Also Ex's Mom kepts smoking, and DS is not to be around smoking, recorded in his medical records.

Ex spent xhours at "Ex's Mom's" House with DD and DS.

As "Ex's Mom" has never been denied the opportunity to form a meaningful relationship with DD and DS , I respectfully ask the Court to dismiss this case.

 Perfect.

[AttunedMama]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

"overly physical" is way too neutral. Call a spade a spade, short and sweet. At least call it 'physically inappropriate' or something.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by AttunedMama 

"overly physical" is way too neutral. Call a spade a spade, short and sweet. At least call it 'physically inappropriate' or something.

I still really think you just want to get this thing dismissed - if PM goes in guns blazing about abuse allegations and such, there are huge issues of fact that need to be decided.  She doesn't have the money or the time to go to court and prove abuse bu step-grandpa (or whatever he's called) to make sure visits don't happen.  She just needs to make it clear that the grandparents have had access to the children from the start and have chosen when to see them and when not to.  That has a much better chance of getting the suit dismissed, than going in with abuse allegations.

[Phoenix~Mama]

Okay... so what should I put as reasons of why he left or why we didn't send the kids some weekends?  Or likely will they just not ask for reasons?

[Phoenix~Mama]

Okay, I took out all reference to the abuse.  And therefore just deleted the dates that Ex and I cancelled time.  What's left are the times the children went, and the times that Ex's Mom cancelled time.

2010 Weekends

July 16 – 18 ~ DD visited from July 16, 4:00 pm – July 18, 10:00 am

July 30 – August 1 ~ "Ex's Mom" cancelled visit for unknown reasons

August 27 – 29 ~ DD visited from August 27, 4:00 pm – August 29, 10:00 am

September 10 – 12 ~ DD visited from September 10, 6:00 pm – September, 12 11:00 am

September 17 – 19 ~ DD visited from September 17, 6:00 pm – September, 19 11:00 am

September 24 – 26 ~ DD visited from September 24, 6:00 pm – September 26, 11:00 am

October 9 – 10 ~ DD visited from October 8, 6:00 pm – October 10, 11:00 am

October 23 – 24 ~ DD visited from October 23, 12:00 pm – October 24, 11:00 am

November 6 – 7 ~ DD visited from November 6, 12:00 pm – November 7, 11:00 am

November 20 – 21 ~ DD visited from November 20, 12:00 pm – November 21, 11:00 am

December 4 – 5 ~ DD & DS visited from December 4, 10:00 am – December 5, 10:00 am

December 18 – 19 ~ DD & DS visited from December 4, 10:00 am – December 5, 10:00 am

December 23 – 24 ~ DD & DS visited from December 23, 5:00 pm – December 24, 4:00

2011 Weekends

January 14 – 16 ~ "Ex's Mom" cancelled for unknown reasons

January 28 – 30 ~ DD & DS visited from January 28, 5:00 pm – January 30, 11:00 am

February 18 – 20 ~ DD & DS visited from February 18, 5:00 pm – February 20, 11:00 am

February 25 – 27 ~ "Ex's Mom" cancelled for unknown reasons

March 25 – 27 ~ "Ex's Mom" did not return any phone calls or voicemails to Ex to set up this visit

April 9 ~ DD & DS visited from 12:00 pm  - 6:00 pm

~~~

What happens if they bring up the fact that Ex left early last weekend?  What happens if they bring up that Ex has told them he won't be going there anymore.  (he is moving in with his Dad soon and he will actually either be having visits there or at my parents house)  His Dad and my parents both live closer to where the children and I will be moving.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

Okay... so what should I put as reasons of why he left or why we didn't send the kids some weekends?  Or likely will they just not ask for reasons?

It's pretty irrelevant.  The whole point is that they SAW the kids, and haven't been denied access.  If they've SEEN the kids, it doesn't matter why you left!  Left up to a judges imagination, they will most likely conclude that a few hours was what was planned, and then they left to do other things.  I MUCH prefer that conclusion to questions about whether or not the grandparents SHOULD see the children - that means a trial.

GOOD LUCK TODAY!!!!!!  You'll do great!!!!  Come back and update us when you can!

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

What happens if they bring up the fact that Ex left early last weekend?  What happens if they bring up that Ex has told them he won't be going there anymore.  (he is moving in with his Dad soon and he will actually either be having visits there or at my parents house)  His Dad and my parents both live closer to where the children and I will be moving.

If they bring it up, you can say that you weren't there and don't know what was said (you weren't so you don't), and can't answer for your ex (assuming he isn't in court - I REALLY hope he won't be b/c his drama isn't necessary!!!!!!!!!!!).

You can say that you are sure there will be future opportunities for them to see the children (its fine if all of those opportunities will be in public playgrounds or parks or the zoo or whatever - but don't say that).  You can say that you hope they will stop cancelling visits with the children, as it disappoints DD.  You can say whatever you want.  Just be positive, be as honest as you can while being relatively vague.

If your ex shows up tell him that YOU will do the talking, and he needs to keep his mouth SHUT.  (I'm hoping really really hard that he doesn't show up - especially since they sued YOU for time and not him.)  That could actually work in our favor if he's not named on the paper's - its his parents, why are they suing his ex?  Leave that up to the judges imagination though - they will probably imagine that the granparents are trying to get back at you for divorcing him, or that they are working together on it.  Just don't sweat it.  You'll do great!

[Phoenix~Mama]

Thanks hon!  *hugs*

Ex is going to court though.  He is just as worried as I am about the outcome and he wants to be there.  He has been actually... um, parent-y, sort of lately.  I mean he definitely has concerns over this whole thing.  And after what happened last weekend, he is totally done with them.  We have talked several times in the past couple of days about the game plan for this and he is letting me handle it.  I will be sure to tell him to keep his mouth shut.  I have already told him that we just want to keep it simple and get it dismissed and he has been very agreeable.  Pretty amazing... but I guess even he can be logical sometimes...  *shrugs*  *crosses fingers*

I likely won't be able to update until tomorrow morning.  Unless something catastophic happens and I need consoling.  :P 

I'm actually really hoping that they just don't show up.  I'm not sure if Ex's Mom started working from home yet or not... but if she hasn't, she would have had to take time off for this too... I'm just really blown away that they are going through all of this trouble.  Esepcially as Ex's Mom has supposedly told ex several times that she has no interest in taking the kids while they are still in diapers!!  So why in the world did you file against me now???  UAV UAV UAV!!!  lol

So can't wait for this to be done.  How many times are they able to file against me?  Is there a limit?  A time limit at least?

[ArtsyMomma]

I just wanted to wish you good luck today!

[BabyBearsMummy]

Thinking of you today  

[Mummoth]

Thinking of you! 

As far as I know, there isn't a limit to how many times they bring you back to court, unfortunately. My ex-in-laws didn't stop until they got their trial (where the Judge just put into the order exactly what I told her I was comfortable with) Now they can't take me to court unless/until something about our situation changes... I think that will happen when the kids are older and decide they aren't interested in going to their grandparents as often. DS is already complaining a bit about being bored during the visits.

[ZoeyZoo]

Good luck today.

[Phoenix~Mama]

Well... yeah, it's official... I hate the justice system.  :p

Ex's Mom didn't even show up!!!!  Her abusive UAV husband did though.  Ex asked him where his Mom was and he said she had to work.  (oh like I didn't? grr?!)  Anyway... so we go into the Mediation room with the Master.  And the Master tessl Ex's UAV Stepdad that he is not on the case and he cannot hear the case, that he cannot represent his wife, as he is not on the docket.  So Ex's UAV Stepdad goes on about how he called so and so and they said it wouldn't be a problem... um, no UAV, your name is not anywhere on the filed paperwork.

So the Master tells him he would have to go to motions court and petition to be added to the case.  He then told ex and I that we could go to motions court and petition against his rights.  The Master said he does not know if the grandparent act is for step grandparents or not, and a judge at motions court could decide that. 

So then he gave me two options.  To write this up as dismissed, and when Ex's Mom re-files (because I'm sure she will because her UAV was there taking notes on what to do, etc.) we will be right back in mediation.  That the only purpose of the mediation/Master is to try to get the parties to come to an agreement, if that can't be done, then it goes to a judge who then decides if the grandparents have any rights or not.  We would go through mediation again and then it goes to settlement court... that would be like 3 more days of time wasted for me!!

Option two was he could write it up as non-agreement now, and then next time she files it goes straight to settlement court with a judge.

I am so INFURIATED with PA's system.  If someone would just listen to this crap they could see that these people are ignorant and hopefully do the right thing and throw it out and fine them for frivilous law suit... But no... it doesn't work like that.  Either way, if no agreement, we end in trial.  A Master doesn't have the authority to make the decision of if they have legal rights to stand on or not, the way he explained it.  No agreement, we get shipped off to settlement court.  *sighs*

And I know these people... there would be no agreement.  Ex's UAV Stepdad THRIVES on going to court.  He has purposefully gotten into trouble just so he can go into court to argue with a judge.  I have no idea how he has not been locked up for contempt or something by now.  I HATE this person so much.  :-(

So a few things can happen...

1)  Stepdad goes to motions to try to be added as a grandparent to the case.  Ex and I go and contest.  If the judge decides to side with us, I doubt this thing would go any further, because I had a feeling this whole thing was being run by UAV Stepdad and Ex's Mom not showing yesterday really proves it.  So if he isn't on the case, he can't do anything else with it, so it dies.

2)  Stepdad gets added to the case *CRINGE* And we go to court... ugh... which then, I guess all this has to come into play?  The Master explained the Judge would listen to all points on both sides and then decide if the grandparents actually have a right to visitation or not.  (Have I mentioned how entirely messed up it is that PA thinks it can tell FIT parents who to allow their children around??!!!  GRR!  Oh... and I read some cases in PA... it doesn't matter squat that Ex and I are on the same page with the kids not seeing them... a judge can still decide that the grandparents have a right to see them and supercede us.  *screams*)

3)  Maybe some miracle happens and Ex's Mom stands up to UAV Stepdad and finally leaves him and tells him to cut the crap and we don't hear from either of them ever again....  (okay, so I do have wild dreams sometimes... *sighs*)

So now... we are in the waiting game.  Ex's Stepdad was told that if he goes to motions court to be added to the case, by law he has to give us 3 days notice of when he is going.  (it's not a set time thing, just an open court thing every something or other day at 9 am)  I wonder what happens if he doesn't inform us?  Will the judge just rule in his favor if no one is there to contest?  Who keeps track of if the opposing party is notified if it's this supposed law, but doesn't seem to have paperwork go out?  I guess it's just something that's added to the arsenal of documentation for when we go to court?

I'm... disheartened.  Very agitated that there are not laws in favor of fit parents making proper decision for their children.  This whole thing is so ABUSIVE!  They are basically giving UAV Stepdad all the power to waste my time/money/jeopordize my job... how is any of this FAIR??

The good thing that came out of yesterday... the Master said that since Ex's Mom didn't show... she did forfeit rights until she re-files and we go to court... so basically right now we do not have to let them see the kids.  But then... what does that mean for the court case?  Which is the better way to go at this point?  So that we are still trying to let them know their grandkids?  Or stand by that last weekend was the last straw in the too many chances world of how messed up these people are, and we really don't want out kids around them anymore.

And the thing is!  My kids are YOUNG!!!  What court is going to look at these people and determine that there is such a bond there already and that it's in the best interest of the kids to have a relationship with them??  Really?! 

Just grrr.  :-(

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

So now... we are in the waiting game.  Ex's Stepdad was told that if he goes to motions court to be added to the case, by law he has to give us 3 days notice of when he is going.  (it's not a set time thing, just an open court thing every something or other day at 9 am)  I wonder what happens if he doesn't inform us?  Will the judge just rule in his favor if no one is there to contest?  Who keeps track of if the opposing party is notified if it's this supposed law, but doesn't seem to have paperwork go out?  I guess it's just something that's added to the arsenal of documentation for when we go to court?

I would ask a lawyer friend about this in your state, but where I am (and I've done this a few times) you are required to show proof of notice, and have to have an affidavit of service to give to the judge.  If you don't have it, you don't go in front of the judge.

If the judge DOES rule in your favor, you go back, contest based on lack of notice, and it would probably be rescinded and given another court date.

I'm sorry this is so hard.  You'll get through it!!  (and grandparent visitation is like 6 hours/month or something, they aren't going to get even as much time as they already have!)