comfort nursing/no milk production?

[sesa70]

Hello everyone!
This is my first post in the bf forum, so please be gentle with me :)

I have an adopted dd who is 8 weeks old. I have never successfully bf before, but I know this is my last baby and I would really like the opportunity. Seeing as how I did not give birth to her, obviously I have no milk production. Do you think it worthwhile to comfort nurse/attempt to nurse her even without any milk production at all? Or, should I just be realistic and give up the idea of a nursing relationship?

Thanks!

[dakam87]

http://www.surrogacy.com/medres/article/lac.html

[starling&diesel]

Congratulations on your new babe!  You can totally nurse her one hundred percent at the breast without any of your own milk.  You can use the amazing Lact-Aid supplemental nursing system.  Check it out.  It was invented by an adoptive dad for his wife to use to nurse their adoptlings over thirty years ago.  So cool.

It's a bit of a steep learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, it is awesome!  You can even side-nurse lying down, or nurse in public with no one noticing.  I had to supplement dd for her first year, used donor milk and formula in the LA as well as my own milk.  She's still nursing 2+ years later.  I do know adoptive moms who have nursed exclusively at the breast with none of their own milk with their adoptive babes.

(kellymom.com or Doctor Newman's website also have resources for inducing lactation, if that's something you're interested in.)

[gemasita]

starling&diesel - can you tell us more about the Lact-Aid?  I posted in the other thread about low milk supply and I want to know what it's like to use the Lact-Aid on a day-to-day basis.  Keep in mind that I wear a 40G bra so it takes me a lot of hands to nurse the "regular" way and with a nipple shield is quite cumbersome too.  I can nurse lying down but it takes work to get the baby lined up and the breast at the right "height."  I don't know if the Lact-Aid is worth it for me to use long-term or not.  How is it when traveling or out and about?

[starling&diesel]

Sure ... once you get the hang of the system, it's pretty straight forward.  My tip is to follow the directions to the t at first, and then as you get more comfortable with it, you can do what works for you. 

We used it for more than a year, and will likely use it again with our second baby, due in October.

• I have five sets, which means that I can have five feeds waiting in the fridge.
• DP did all the filling of them before she left for work.
• When babe needed to nurse, I just grabbed a LA from the fridge and tucked it in the space between my boobs (I usually wore a shelf tank, but if you've got more cleavage and need to wear a proper bra, then just use the neck lanyard provided and tuck it under your shirt, at about boob level.)
• You can use tape to position the tubing, but I never did, I just held it in place with one finger while dd latched on, and then kept a finger on it while she nursed.
• The biggest thing to remember is to get all the air out of each bag, so that the 'vaccum' works and the babe doesn't need gravity to access the milk (the biggest difference between LA and the Medela SNS set-up ... I d-e-t-e-s-t the Medela SNS!).
• I use the smaller bags, so that you don't feel obliged to have babe finish it all (especially if you're using donor milk, which I treated like liquid gold). 
• As for going out, I tucked a filled and ready LA into a soup thermos (wider opening) and tucked it into a thermal lunchbag in my diaper bag.  When you're ready to NIP, then just tuck the LA into place (or remove yourself to a discreet place to do it) and then be sure to have the tubing near the right spot before you start.  You get good at fishing in your shirt to position the tubing (be sure to tuck it into the groove to stop any flow, you'll know what I mean when you see the LA) and it looks like you're adjusting your boob to nurse bare, no one can tell the difference).
• When dd was finished NIP, I just tucked the LA back into the thermos and cleaned it at home with the others.  No muss, no fuss!
• Like I said, I wore shelf tank tops, but I bet with a bit of experimenting, you could figure out a system that worked for you.  I wore another shirt on top, so I'd lift the outer shirt, and pull the shelf bra tank top down so dd could nurse and not much of me was showing.
• At the end of the day, my partner cleaned all the components so that they were ready to be filled again in the morning.  We phased out supplemented night time feeds as soon as we could (about four months) because it was a drag to fetch the LA (although you could keep it in a cooler by your bed) and because my supply was at it's best during the night and I wanted to maximize that.

Phew!  Lots of info there!  If I missed anything, ask away!  I'm a true advocate for the LA.  Our daughter never had an artificial nipple, and that is only thanks to the genius invention of the LA!

(ETA: Jamie:  dd is an IVF baby too!) 

And here's a pic of me NIP with the LA.  You can see my fingers holding the tubing in place. 

[Lolipopins]

I had very low milk supply and after 3 months supplemented heavily with formula and my milk went to nothing in a hurry, I nursed my babe for 18 months total and he was very happy to comfort nurse at night in stead of bottles after 1 year.  Honestly he would be nursing still If I'd let him..he's 4.5 years!  Nursing is a lot about the nutrition and mostly about nourishing the relationship.  I encourage you to nurse as long as you both want to.  Milk or not, its an incredible gift to you both.

[gemasita]

starling&diesel - thank you so much for all of that information.  BEAUTIFUL pic, BTW.

I am really intrigued by your positive experience with the LA long-term.  So, if you have formula in the LA, do you have to finish it in an hour like you do with a bottle?  Or maybe bacteria can't go back up into it like it can in a bottle.  Did you take several out with you when you were out?  I guess so since you said you used the smaller bags.  I'm just wondering if you DD nursed a little at a time and then what did you do.  DS is used to eating every 3 hours, 4 oz, but I wonder if he were nursing, if it would be less, but more often.  I just don't feel like I have a good picture of what he would do as a NURSING baby.  And I don't even have a great idea of what it's like to be out with a baby since I have felt so confined to home with pumping so often.  I would love to get rid of the pumping.  Also, did you keep the tubing in your bra near your nipple?  I am wondering if I did use tape, if I would tape it in the right place before going out or what?

[starling&diesel]

gemasita ...

The smaller bags hold 4oz if I remember correctly.  DD usually finished the whole feed within about 15 minutes, but sometimes we did discard portions of that if she fell asleep or was not interested. 

I usually took one LA with me when I went out (or two if we were going somewhere and would be away longer, if so I'd try to tuck that into a fridge if we were at someone's house, say), and brought the makings for another just in case (formula).  My midwives and ped were very happy to have dd on the breastfeeding weight charts, so so long as she was 3rd or 5th percentile or so, they didn't want me to give her any more supplement, even though you could supplement as much as the baby tolerates, but I don't think it's necessary.  You could get more LA systems, or wash them more often, but your guy sounds like my dd at about the same age too. 

Is he getting any of your breastmilk at the breast while nursing bare? 

I stopped pumping at about ten weeks.  I never produced much with the pump, and it was careening me towards further sadness and frustration and sense of failure to be hooked up to that thing all the time without having anything to show for it. 

As for the tubing, some women place a small bandaid there so that they can feed the tube through it whenever necessary.  I'm not sure how your breast-size would impact whether or not you'd want to use tape or a bandaid or not.  i found it was just one more step to do while getting ready to nurse.  That's one thing you could start out doing (put the smallest bandaid you can find in the right place before you leave the house, or heck, leave it on all day) and then adjust as you get more comfortable with the LA.

Edited by starling&diesel - 4/2/11 at 11:24am

[Megan73]

Gorgeous pic

Everything Starling said about the LA - I love, love, love it! I NIP so many times with it and no one ever noticed. DH cleaned and filled the units (I had five, too) and when I went out I carried them in a little thermos bag with an ice pack.

OP, the challenge may be getting a two-month-old who's never nursed to latch. I'd suggest trying to get some advice from a lactation consultant. Maybe starting with a nipple shield so it's bottle-like? Dunno.

That said, some adoptive moms try to induce lactation with a regimen of pumping and drugs.

But even without milk, I think there's tonnes of benefit for your babe to a nursing relationship with a device like a Lact-Aid.

Congrats on your new babe!

[gemasita]

Thanks guys (and OP - sorry to hijack but I didn't know if anyone would check my post about low supply).

starling - yes, DS definitely gets milk out when he nurses.  I'm still using the nipple shield but sometimes I go without it (I've been in lots of pain since DS was born - I think from latch issues + pumping so much + a cracked nipple + a staph infection so I don't want to go backwards in that arena...but next on the list will be practicing nursing more without the nipple shield.  Again, DS is pretty laid back so he'll nurse however I present it...but I am still sore).  I can see milk all over his mouth when he is done and he does swallow...although not with every suck due to the low supply.  I often pump about an ounce less after he nurses so he has to be getting some milk out.  My best guess would be an ounce per nursing session.

Yes, the pumping is so disappointing because it takes time away from DS and when you only pump an ounce or an ounce and a half (or a half ounce after he nurses!) in 20 minutes, it's just infuriating.  I think it is causing me to have some depression so I would love to get rid of that step.  But don't want to lose my milk supply entirely...as I understand it, the LA supplements them less as the flow from the breast is higher.  That would be great because then we could just go by DS and when he's full, hopefully he'll just stop eating.

Megan - glad to hear your perspective too.  I imagine this LA being so cumbersome - you really LOVE it?  Sounds like there are a lot of fans here!  Did you buy 5 entire sets?  I saw on the site that you can buy one or two.  Or do you mean you would fill 5 bags?

[starling&diesel]

I bought five entire sets.  Two from LA and three from Craigslist.  They are pricey!  The bags are also pricey, depending on how many you're using.  I've found them on CL too.

The flow of LA is great for supporting the supply that you do have and encouraging more supply.

Are you taking domperidone?  I took that for about eight months, and it definitely helped my supply.

I started to feel a lot better when I stopped pumping, but for some moms it helps them feel as though they're doing everything they can.

I also took fenugreek and blessed thistle herbal supplements.

I do LOVE the LA.  It salvaged my nursing relationship with dd, and she is still nursing now over two years later. 

I will mention (so that you can tuck it away in the back of your mind) that it's helpful to start babes early with a cup when you're using the LA and want to avoid bottles.  That way, you can ease back the LA supplements in time, and not have the babe associate artificial nipples with nourishment.  I started dd on a cup at about four or five months, just a shotglass, and she was drinking from an open cup shortly after that. 

[lactatinggirl]

You should look into an SNS (I think that's the right acronym?). A friend of mine nursed her adopted daughter and baby never had a bottle, just got the extra she needed from the SNS while nursing.