What does Low-Supply Living look like in the long-term? - Page 2

[maryeliz]

I just wanted to add some info because I think my answer to your original question was a little vague.  I started supplementing bottles from my freezer stash at about 2 months.  That milk lasted about a month.  For the past two months, since the stash ran out, I've been supplementing with formula (Neosure).  I don't know exactly the ration, but I think she is at about 50/50 breast milk/formula at this point.  It is definitely not my ideal, but she hasn't seemed to have any problems with the switch.  I plan to keep going with the mix of as much breast milk as I can give her supplemented with formula for the forseeable future.

Also, I had also asked my LC about the small amount I could get if I pumped after a good feeding session.  She said that because the body is always making new breast milk that little bit that I was getting when I pumped was normal and not a sign that my baby wasn't eating efficiently.

[gemasita]

Originally Posted by maryeliz 

Also, I had also asked my LC about the small amount I could get if I pumped after a good feeding session.  She said that because the body is always making new breast milk that little bit that I was getting when I pumped was normal and not a sign that my baby wasn't eating efficiently.

Thank you for that info...I had been wondering about that and it was driving me crazy.
 

[chicagorachel]

Hi -- this is all so familiar, I'm on my second round of low-supply nursing and it was absolutely devastating. The pumping was definitely the most soul-sucking part of it, and while I kept it up for 10 months, I'm not sure if it even helped. I regret spending so much time pumping, and feel like I missed out on some of the joy of the early months. We ended up nursing for 2.5 years and were able to phase out supplementing around 11 months or so, that part was a joy.

This time, I've got a much better supply, I still have to supplement in the PM but mostly with my own AM milk now. I only pump once a day, and feel so much more sane. You might want to visit the MOBI group, it's a great resource for support and information for long term low supply issues. Also, because I went a little overboard in my planning this time, and have been a little luckier supply-wise, I have an extra lactaid, unused and would be happy to send it to you along with some bags so that you can see if it works for you.

You're doing a wonderful thing trying so hard to feed your little guy!

[gemasita]

rachel - wow, that is so nice of you.  I would *love* to have an opportunity to try out the Lact-Aid!!  Thank you!

I did find the MOBI website and it has been such a wonderful resource.  I think I tried everything they suggested there but it has also helped to guide me through the grieving process.

Thank you for your post.

[NoraFlood]

My son is 4 months old now, and I have just in the past month sort of decided to move on from what I thought our breastfeeding relationship would look like, and I've begun to embrace what we have. I have horribly low supply too, and nothing has helped, including domperidone. It is only in the past 3-4 weeks that I have begun to be able to nurse without pain, which has really gone a long way towards repairing our breastfeeding relationship. My son gets formula--about 20 ounces a day right now--and we are still nursing all through the night and in the mornings and evenings (I am back at work and pumping during the day as well). On days when I am home with him all day, I always nurse first and then offer a bottle afterwards. He still LOVES to nurse, even when there isn't much there (we did go through a frustrating period about a month ago when he would pull on and beat at my breast once the flow slowed down, but that was a phase and he doesn't do it anymore).

Honestly, I am so glad to have made my peace with formula supplementation. I was so exhausted with researching supplements for nursing and pumping and just killing myself to try to get up to full production, and it really impacted how I felt about my son. To be honest, I really resented him for a while there. It sounds horrible, but it's true. I resented the fact that he was hungry and I was not able to provide for him. I think it really hits something primal in women when they want to breastfeed and can't. It was about the most upset and disappointed I have ever been. But now, you know, we nurse and it's great, and he gets bottles and gets full, and he is radiantly healthy and I don't have any negative feelings about feeding him at all anymore. I think I will always be a little sad that I wasn't able to exclusively breastfeed him, but I am really glad that feedings no longer fill me with dread. I got to the point where I wasn't able to be that good a mama because I was so busy obsessing about breastfeeding and trying to get breastfeeding to work the way I wanted it to and crying because it wasn't happening. Now that I have stopped killing myself (although I still take some supplements), I am happier and I think my baby is too. I will keep nursing as much as I can for as long as I can, but I'm not taking any more heroic measures.

[happyhippie]

Gemasita, how you doing mama? Are you taking it one day at a time? 

[gemasita]

Hey happyhippie - yes, I am doing a little better each day.  I am not as weepy but still feeling very overwhelmed - like, "will things ever be normal again?"  I am getting out for walks though - trying to get exercise and vitamin D and not think too far into the future.

NoraFlood - I really appreciate your post.  We are doing more nursing and then just following with a bottle.  DS, like yours, loves to nurse.   The LC came over yesterday and did a before and after feeling weight on him and although it's only a snapshot, he got out an ounce with 5 minutes of bf'ing on each side.  She says he's really a good nurser, know how to control the flow and get the milk out - just wish there was more for him.  I think, like you, the feedings have to stop being about the milk...they just need to be for his comfort, and we know he's good at getting out what is there, but it's not enough and we'll always have to supplement.  But I need to just accept that he can nurse anyway and just let go of the rest.

[2goingon2]

Couldn't read and not post...you are doing a great job for your little boy.  He has his mama and her love and dedication and whatever milk you can provide him.  I could have written your post 3 years ago.  It hurt me to supplement with formula...I felt like I had failed my son and was so ashamed to give him a bottle - especially in public.  But, I realized that my body grew his and my breastmilk however little it was was still better than nothing and that holding him and loving him was just as important.  We co-slept and that helped too. 

I too took Reglan and it was awful.  I wouldn't ever recommend it.  The depression and anxiety were terrible.  I believe you said you stopped taking it...good. 

I think you've gotten some good advice from these wise mamas so I don't have more to offer...just an empathetic ear over cyberspace.  You aren't alone and you are a wonderful mama to your boy.  Keep it up.

[happyhippie]

Originally Posted by 2goingon2 

Couldn't read and not post...you are doing a great job for your little boy.  He has his mama and her love and dedication and whatever milk you can provide him.  I could have written your post 3 years ago.  It hurt me to supplement with formula...I felt like I had failed my son and was so ashamed to give him a bottle - especially in public.  But, I realized that my body grew his and my breastmilk however little it was was still better than nothing and that holding him and loving him was just as important.  We co-slept and that helped too. 

This is so many of us! How sad is that, now there is shame when you cannot breastfeed completely.  I am just now getting over mine, but it took a while for me to feel free of that hardship.

Gemacita, you ARE doing great. Hugs to you mama. 
 

[lyterae]

The first time around with low-supply we gave up, the reglan made the PPD worse than it already was and I couldn't manage it.

For us at almost 6 weeks this is what nursing looks like :

I am still taking MMP and Goats Rue - but I'm not as strict about keeping on a schedule as I was. We nurse about 6-7 times throughout the day and night. Sometimes it's before a bottle, sometimes in the middle, sometimes it's just a random nursing during the day because nothing else will do for him. My supply is capped currently at about 6 oz a day, I'm thankful for those 6 oz and I wish there was more, but we're learning to accept what breastfeeding looks like for us.

[gemasita]

I felt like I had failed my son and was so ashamed to give him a bottle - especially in public.  But, I realized that my body grew his and my breastmilk however little it was was still better than nothing and that holding him and loving him was just as important.  We co-slept and that helped too.

Yeah...I haven't been out with him much and I think part of it is not wanting people to see me give him a bottle.  The co-sleeping has been wonderful for us though.

My supply is capped currently at about 6 oz a day, I'm thankful for those 6 oz and I wish there was more, but we're learning to accept what breastfeeding looks like for us.

Ok...this makes me feel better!  This is the first time I have felt thankful for my 8 oz, just hearing you say you are thankful for yours!  I guess with babies at 6 and 8 weeks now, we get a little more used to what this new picture of bf'ing is for us.  Thank you.

Happyhippie - yes, there are many of us!  I am so glad to "know" others in the same boat!

[gemasita]

I don't know if I can just put a FB link here and if it'll work but just in case, here's a great article about low milk supply:  http://www.facebook.com/?sk=messages#!/notes/lakeshore-medical-breastfeeding-medicine-clinic/probably-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-low-milk-supply/166922123366118

[lilikoi]

What a great article! I just read this entire thread and it helped me so much. Just wanted to send a big your way. I am going through the same thing and it is hard. 

[Somemyrrh]

Here's what a low supply life looks like for us, at 9 +months:

Nursing on demand, once every two hours.  It only takes around 5-8 minutes since I only make 1.5 oz at a time.  Follow nursing with a 2 oz. bottle of formula, more if my daughter wants it, but she doesn't usually.  When we are out and about, since I am NOT a discreet nurser (breast compression, etc.), I give her an additional 2 oz. bottle of formula in lieu of nursing first.  My daughter also eats solids, but she has had roughly the same pattern (nurse about five times/day, 3-5 times/night [cosleeping], plus formula supplements during the day) since she was around 3 months old.  My daughter drinks around 12 oz of formula a day.  Since I don't make much milk, apparently I make very fatty milk.  My daughter grows and gains weight on time, and she is fed and supplemented on demand. 

I pump about three times a day, either after a feeding or in lieu of one if she naps past a three hours between feedings mark.  I usually pump for 10-15 minutes at a time.  That gets first and second let-downs for me.  If I double pump, it's ten minutes or so, single side, 15-20 minutes if in lieu of nursing.  For after a nursing session, I only have one let down, so it's a bit shorter.  Usually I pump right before we head out on an outing 9:30, 10, or 11), then at 1pm or whenever we get home, then again at 5:30 or 6. My daughter goes to bed between 7:30 and 8, so I try to put a 2 hour gap in for the boobs to refill.  At bedtime, she nurses, then takes her tiny bottle (2 oz formula, which is actually 2.25 oz), then comfort nurses to sleep.  She often nurses again an hour and a half into the night, then once or twice more before early morning. She nurses as soon as she wakes up (between 7 and 8:30), and again at 9:30 or 10 before her first nap.  Repeat.

I take 9 Domperidone and 15 fenugreek a day, plus a cup of double strength Mother's Milk tea at night before bed.  I eat oat cereal and sometimes oatmeal or oatmeal homemade granola. I keep a glass of water by the bed at night to stave off midnight thirst.  I wear my baby on my chest in a sleepywrap.  I take it one day at a time and don't worry [much] about nursing.  For me, it's not possible to get donor milk [strong soy allergy runs in my family, and soy is in so many foods] or to make a full supply.  I enjoy my baby girl, practice Baby Led Weaning for solids, nurse her, and make sure she is fed with love.

Being realistic is not the same as failing or giving up.  Feeding with love is what matters.  Nursing is not all or nothing, and knowing that helps me to really cherish my nursing relationship with my daughter.  So much of our bonding is also through touch, through wearing my baby, and sleeping next to her.  I am grateful for what is.

I hope you get to a place of joy and gratitude, no matter which options you choose.

[accountclosed2]

I had low supply. DD lost weight at 4 weeks, so we started switch-nursing, using a feeding schedule (ca 3 hours feeding start to start, 2 sometimes in the afternoon, if she didn't sleep, but then each feed was over an hour), fenugreek. and DD gained weight, but not fast enough, so we got small amounts of donated milk, and fed in an SNS. Then when DD was 2+ months old her weight stalled, and in the end, at 3+ months, we had to give a lot more donated milk (300 ml a day) in SNS, and i started taking Domp. My supply quickly increased, and every week we could decrease the donated milk by about 50 ml! When DD was 6 months old, and just tarting to play with solids (but still not really eating, self-feeding), we were of the donated milk, and I haven't had supply issues since4, and DD has gained fine. DD didn't really eat much solids before 18 months, she survived on breastfeeds and small snacks, mainly fruit and veg. She still breastfeeds a lot.

I was never able to pump, still don't get more than drops. But I still got my supply up, and kept it. I would suggest you drop the pumping, for the week or so I tried it, it was pushing me over the edge, it just made it too hard. But try a supplementer at the breast. I've never tried the lactaid, and the SNS woks really well, but can be fiddly, but I'd recommend that you try what the breastfeeding support organisation in Sweden recommends: Take an ordinary feeding bottle, cut the hole in the teat/nipple bigger, get a feeding probe (not sure of the size, but can find out, you'd like it at least 50 cm long. I think you can get them at pharmacies), and a small syringe that fits the probe, for cleaning. Pop one end of the probe into the bottle, tape the other to the breast. Now you have a supplementer that can stand up at the table next to you! Place it higher than the baby if you think the baby needs extra help, if it isn't sucking very effectively.

Looking back, it was hard. And I was sad about all the troubles. But I spent all that time holding a loving my little girl, she had me, all that she needed! And no, breastfeeding wasn't lovely back then, it didn't get to that point until Dd was about 5 or so months old. But now I know a lot of mothers in real life who breastfeed or breastfed, and I've found very few of them found breastfeeding to be that cosy, lovely thing we all dream of, before at least 3 months!

But for me it was important to breastfeed, and breastmilk was important too. So I guess we prioritized what was most important: Keeping supply up with herbs, drugs, feeding schemes etc, keeping baby at the breast with SNS, holding baby, loving baby. So we'd planned to use cloth diapers, but didn't until DD was over 6 months old (we used ushies and Moltex instead). We did use EC (but more because it kept DD happy, and was easy for me to do while feeding on the sofa, most of of the day - easier than changing diapers on a baby who hated changes!). I didn't do the dishes once in the first year. I didn't cook dinner until she was 8 month old. I gave up on sewing and baking. I gave up on the slings she hated... (until the Ergo, at 8 months, made everything easier!).

And looking back, I'm happy with the choices we made. We got plenty of use of the cloth diapers (well the newborn, and small sizes, she had such a tiny bum so by the time she was out of diapers, at 18 months, she was still in the diaper sized for 3-6 months). And we've now had nearly 2 1/2 years of babywearing, and still do. I made food and baked for her, after she started solids. I made a mei tai, and have made her some clothes - once she was over a year old. And as she got older, we bake together, cook together, go on adventures. It's ok. In the early months DD got what she needed: lots of body contact and breastmilk. (breastmilk over formula was very important to me, I really wanted to provide this for her, doesn't mean that I think formula is bad, and for other mothers in a similar situation it may be the best choice, it just wasn't for me).
Edited by accountclosed2 - 4/23/11 at 3:24pm

[gemasita]

Originally Posted by Somemyrrh 

Here's what a low supply life looks like for us, at 9 +months:

Nursing on demand, once every two hours.  It only takes around 5-8 minutes since I only make 1.5 oz at a time.  Follow nursing with a 2 oz. bottle of formula, more if my daughter wants it, but she doesn't usually.  When we are out and about, since I am NOT a discreet nurser (breast compression, etc.), I give her an additional 2 oz. bottle of formula in lieu of nursing first.  My daughter also eats solids, but she has had roughly the same pattern (nurse about five times/day, 3-5 times/night [cosleeping], plus formula supplements during the day) since she was around 3 months old.  My daughter drinks around 12 oz of formula a day.  Since I don't make much milk, apparently I make very fatty milk.  My daughter grows and gains weight on time, and she is fed and supplemented on demand. 

I pump about three times a day, either after a feeding or in lieu of one if she naps past a three hours between feedings mark.  I usually pump for 10-15 minutes at a time.  That gets first and second let-downs for me.  If I double pump, it's ten minutes or so, single side, 15-20 minutes if in lieu of nursing.  For after a nursing session, I only have one let down, so it's a bit shorter.  Usually I pump right before we head out on an outing 9:30, 10, or 11), then at 1pm or whenever we get home, then again at 5:30 or 6. My daughter goes to bed between 7:30 and 8, so I try to put a 2 hour gap in for the boobs to refill.  At bedtime, she nurses, then takes her tiny bottle (2 oz formula, which is actually 2.25 oz), then comfort nurses to sleep.  She often nurses again an hour and a half into the night, then once or twice more before early morning. She nurses as soon as she wakes up (between 7 and 8:30), and again at 9:30 or 10 before her first nap.  Repeat.

I take 9 Domperidone and 15 fenugreek a day, plus a cup of double strength Mother's Milk tea at night before bed.  I eat oat cereal and sometimes oatmeal or oatmeal homemade granola. I keep a glass of water by the bed at night to stave off midnight thirst.  I wear my baby on my chest in a sleepywrap.  I take it one day at a time and don't worry [much] about nursing.  For me, it's not possible to get donor milk [strong soy allergy runs in my family, and soy is in so many foods] or to make a full supply.  I enjoy my baby girl, practice Baby Led Weaning for solids, nurse her, and make sure she is fed with love.

Being realistic is not the same as failing or giving up.  Feeding with love is what matters.  Nursing is not all or nothing, and knowing that helps me to really cherish my nursing relationship with my daughter.  So much of our bonding is also through touch, through wearing my baby, and sleeping next to her.  I am grateful for what is.

I hope you get to a place of joy and gratitude, no matter which options you choose.

Somemyrrh - thank you so much for typing all of that!  That is really helpful.  I also enjoy wearing and sleeping with my baby and that has become very important to me.  It's very helpful to hear how you manage trips out.  I also cannot NIP discreetly so I haven't done it at all.  We are just lucky to be nursing period!
 

Originally Posted by AislinCarys 

I had low supply. DD lost weight at 4 weeks, so we started switch-nursing, using a feeding schedule (ca 3 hours feeding start to start, 2 sometimes in the afternoon, if she didn't sleep, but then each feed was over an hour), fenugreek. and DD gained weight, but not fast enough, so we got small amounts of donated milk, and fed in an SNS. Then when DD was 2+ months old her weight stalled, and in the end, at 3+ months, we had to give a lot more donated milk (300 ml a day) in SNS, and i started taking Domp. My supply quickly increased, and every week we could decrease the donated milk by about 50 ml! When DD was 6 months old, and just tarting to play with solids (but still not really eating, self-feeding), we were of the donated milk, and I haven't had supply issues since4, and DD has gained fine. DD didn't really eat much solids before 18 months, she survived on breastfeeds and small snacks, mainly fruit and veg. She still breastfeeds a lot.

I was never able to pump, still don't get more than drops. But I still got my supply up, and kept it. I would suggest you drop the pumping, for the week or so I tried it, it was pushing me over the edge, it just made it too hard. But try a supplementer at the breast. I've never tried the lactaid, and the SNS woks really well, but can be fiddly, but I'd recommend that you try what the breastfeeding support organisation in Sweden recommends: Take an ordinary feeding bottle, cut the hole in the teat/nipple bigger, get a feeding probe (not sure of the size, but can find out, you'd like it at least 50 cm long. I think you can get them at pharmacies), and a small syringe that fits the probe, for cleaning. Pop one end of the probe into the bottle, tape the other to the breast. Now you have a supplementer that can stand up at the table next to you! Place it higher than the baby if you think the baby needs extra help, if it isn't sucking very effectively.

Looking back, it was hard. And I was sad about all the troubles. But I spent all that time holding a loving my little girl, she had me, all that she needed! And no, breastfeeding wasn't lovely back then, it didn't get to that point until Dd was about 5 or so months old. But now I know a lot of mothers in real life who breastfeed or breastfed, and I've found very few of them found breastfeeding to be that cosy, lovely thing we all dream of, before at least 3 months!

But for me it was important to breastfeed, and breastmilk was important too. So I guess we prioritized what was most important: Keeping supply up with herbs, drugs, feeding schemes etc, keeping baby at the breast with SNS, holding baby, loving baby. So we'd planned to use cloth diapers, but didn't until DD was over 6 months old (we used ushies and Moltex instead). We did use EC (but more because it kept DD happy, and was easy for me to do while feeding on the sofa, most of of the day - easier than changing diapers on a baby who hated changes!). I didn't do the dishes once in the first year. I didn't cook dinner until she was 8 month old. I gave up on sewing and baking. I gave up on the slings she hated... (until the Ergo, at 8 months, made everything easier!).

And looking back, I'm happy with the choices we made. We got plenty of use of the cloth diapers (well the newborn, and small sizes, she had such a tiny bum so by the time she was out of diapers, at 18 months, she was still in the diaper sized for 3-6 months). And we've now had nearly 2 1/2 years of babywearing, and still do. I made food and baked for her, after she started solids. I made a mei tai, and have made her some clothes - once she was over a year old. And as she got older, we bake together, cook together, go on adventures. It's ok. In the early months DD got what she needed: lots of body contact and breastmilk. (breastmilk over formula was very important to me, I really wanted to provide this for her, doesn't mean that I think formula is bad, and for other mothers in a similar situation it may be the best choice, it just wasn't for me).

Aislin - thank you also for typing all of that!  I'm glad to hear the other ways you are enjoying life with your babe - the cloth diapers, babywearing, baking, etc.  I really needed to hear all of that!  I also haven't cooked or baked since DS was born!  I'm also glad to hear about how things were long-term for you guys.

Update on me:  I stopped pumping a while ago and just nurse DS (still with the nipple shield 90% of the time - we'll work on that next) and follow with about 2-3 oz of donor milk.  Sometimes DS eats quite a bit less from the bottle and sometimes more.  So I know he's getting something from me!  I'm feeling ok with that now.  Haven't even tried NIP since my breasts are large, I have to do compressions, and I have the nipple shield...oh, and DS has become REALLY squirmy so he knocks the nipple shield off all the time.  It's not even worth it at this point.  I've also played around with nursing in bed - sometimes it's too difficult with the clear nipple shield that I can't see in the dark (!) and sometimes it's nice.  We have a good amount of donor milk and DS is 12 weeks old today so maybe we will get to 4 months or further without formula.  The fact that we've been able to do it this long is awesome!

We took an out-of-town trip last week and it went well.  Packed donor milk in ice and I did take my pump but didn't have to pump on the trip.  It was pretty painful the last time I tried it so I'm not sure I can even do it any more.  I was in a nipple pain study yesterday and the LC said I definitely have what look like vasospasms (my nipples turn quite purple) so maybe once I start taking meds for that, I'll be in less pain and feeling more positive.  I'm already feeling much more relaxed and the depression is completely gone.  I'm stressed about money, though, and now I'm worried that since I had so much pain the last time I pumped, that I really can't go out and get even a part-time job right now.  Caring for a 12 week old is still a lot of work!

[smdowning]

Like you I tried it all, the dom, the fenugreek, milk thistle, even had read somewhere about low iodine and breast problems and saw a naturopath and tested my iodine levels and took iodine supplements- all to no avail. I think I too stopped all the pumping at 2 or 2 1/2 months and just let whatever would happen, happen. In the end we lasted 10 months of breastfeeding every 3 or so hours and always following up with a bottle and I know in the end she got way more formula than breastmilk but I know we bonded better because of it. I was not fortunate enough to get donor milk but I did stumble upon a homemade formula that I felt good about. It still haunts me that I couldn't exclusively feed my baby but I still try to focus on the bright side of things and be grateful for the 10 months.

[gemasita]

smdowning - thanks for that.  I'm starting to think that 10 months would be AWESOME at this point!  I think however long we can breastfeed will be great and will be ok.

Update - we've done a few feedings without the nipple shield and they've been good.  So maybe we can phase that out soon.

[gemasita]

Another update - went without the nipple shield all day yesterday.  DS did fine but I was SORE.  Reminiscent of the first week - DS nursing away with not a care in the world and me in AGONY!  Not sure how to work on a deeper latch with a 3 mo old.  Anyone have any ideas?

Also, on day 3 or 4 of Niphedamine...waiting for improvement.

[homemademom]

Hey Gemasita, I was just thinking about you and wondering how you are.  I managed to get ds back to the breast, and like you, I'm no longer pumping. He nurses what he can and we make up the difference in formula (like a pp, we have a history of allergies, so I can't use donor milk, but I use hypoallergenic formula).  He nurses to sleep, during the night (once) and in the morning all without supplements. My supply is lowest during the day from 9 am until 3pm.  It's very strange, I still can't figure it out.  Also, the only thing that props up the supply I have is domperidone, at the full dose.  If I forget to take it, I see a steep drop 24 hours later.  So, we're just trying to live gratefully for any bm he can get and the bonding we get from nursing and live with the rest.  I hope things are getting better for you still!