DMSA vs 'Natural' Chelation

[KKKK74]

My son (2 1/2) has the classic multiple allergies/intolerances, leaky gut, high metals, low essential vitamins/minerals etc (and possible but undiagnosed yeast/parastie issues etc.).

The doctors want to start DMSA chelation using suppositories. I am unsure whether to first trial a more 'natural' chelation using oral and bathing clay, chorella, CGF and cilantro alongside high doses of supplements and glutathione cream. Any other recommendations welcome. 

Has anyone got experience successfully chelating and detoxing 'naturally' ? Is it posible ? How long did it take ? Can anyone help me with product recommendations and doses suitable for a 2 1/2 yr old ? How much do clay / cilantro etc strip the body of the essential vitamins and minerals in comparison to DMSA ?

I am aware that chelation with 'natural' products is still chelation and it does scare me especially as cilantro can supposedly cross the blood brain barrier and I'd be home alone making this up as I go along !

But then I am also scared when I read about the side effects of DMSA. Especially as his essential vitamins/minerals etc are so low at the moment and DMSA would strip them further.  

Should we spend 6 months building up his vitamin/mineral levels and then start the DMSA ? But then I am anxious to clear the metals as quickly as possible because I don't think we can heal the leaky gut while the metals are so high - the usual vicious circle !

Is there anyone else out there chelating at the moment - either 'naturally' or with DMSA or similar ?

Thank you for any help with this and I'd love to just chat about it even if you don't have the answers !

Edited by KKKK74 - 4/2/11 at 1:42am

[KKKK74]

Sorry  - more questions

I should explain also that DMSA is illegal in the country that we live in. This means we would need to fly (3 hour flight so 6 hours total travel each way) and then also pay hotel costs for each visit to the doctors. This is made even more complex by the fact I am 6 months pregnant so timing is not ideal and potentially very rushed as I'll soon not be able to fly.

Is the DMSA suppository something that we can get a 4 month supply of at one time ? Is is possible to do the Andy Cutler low and slow method using the suppositories ? Why did some of you opt for the oral DMSA over the suppository ? We were told the suppository is best for our son (instead of oral/cream) Sorry for these basic questions but it's not as simple (or cheap) for us as popping to the doctors to ask.

Thanks again

Edited by KKKK74 - 4/2/11 at 1:41am

[tanyalynn]

I've used DMSA and ALA (alpha lipoic acid) orally for myself and the kids.  Are you not able to have DMSA shipped to you?  Although I initially worked with a healthcare provider, it was via phone consults, so I did a lot of reading at places like the autism mercury yahoo group (mostly for kids) and the frequent dose chelation yahoo group (mostly for adults), both of which use Andy Cutler style chelation, which is frequent, small doses.  The yahoo groups assume people are working on their own, at least for the chelation portion of their approach to healthcare. I used oral dosing for the two because a) it's what my healthcare provider initially suggested (it's the only type she recommends) and b) based on the reading I did, I felt it was the safest, most well-understood approach to chelation.  (I'm sorry this is all one paragraph, I'm having issues with the reply box and my return key isn't starting a new paragraph--and I can't even see my cursor!  ack) ... I wrote a lot more about our experiences  in the Dental forum, there's a thread called Chelating Mamas, and I've written about some of our ups and downs there.  I would be concerned that things like chlorella and cilantro would mobilize too much.  ... The thing about chelation is that it's not really that hard to find a substance that mobilizes metals, the hard part is keeping that balanced with actually excreting the metals.  Having them bop around in your body and then re-settle somewhere new a) hurts, b) can cause regressions in kids, c) can cause disability in adults (think fatigue, brain fog, mood issues, in addition to the short-term stuff like headaches, body aches, significant digestive issues) and d) depletes nutrients fast.  I don't have as much confidence that dosing, in terms of frequency and dosage, is as well understood with suppositories as it is with oral DMSA, but I haven't looked into it extensively. 

[KKKK74]

Thanks Tanya

I never thought to look on the 'Dental' thread. That Chelating Mama's link is great and I've just ploughed through all 43 pages of it (and it's links) - which is why it's taken me a few days to respond!

It's answered a heap of my questions - but of course given me a heap more !

Give me another couple of days to do a bit of my own research and process what I've read and I'll be back with more questions.

Thanks

Kate

[Panserbjorne]

I'm guessing my method of natural chelation isn't what you're looking at, but yes.  I have chelated myself and my family without any scary products, effectively.  I did have resources many do not, but it can be done.  Would it have been faster using ALA and DMSA?  Maybe, but I was very happy with our progress and felt extremely comfortable with the progression.

[KKKK74]

Panserbjourne - can you let me know a bit more about what you did (although I'm guessing your a practitioner or something with resources I don't have ??). I am currently leaning towards trialing 6 months of significant vitamin mineral increase to try and get him in as good a position as possible before intensive (mild Cutler style intensive !) chelating so if any of your suggestions could be implemented in this time just to begin reducing his metal load that would be worth considering. Of course we're caught in the usual catch 22 of high metals with damaged gut so vitamin/mineral supplements are not being absorbed and used properly anyway so maybe we just need to jump straight in and start right away????

Does anyone have thoughts on which of these would be better i.e wait and try and build vitamin/minerals up, maybe heal the gut a little first (even though progress would be limited while his metals are high) or start straight away trying to get the metals down as everything else is ineffective until the metal load is reduced ???

Clay questions - I am a little confused at the moment about clay. We did start him on oral clay daily and one clay bath a week about 10 days ago. We are also started him on chorella as recommended to us by a health practitioner. I've since realised how dangerous it is to start the chorella with the whole blood brain barrier thing so I've stopped it but because I'm now scared I've also stopped the oral and bathing clay as well until I understand more. We were using the LL magnetic clay - non herbal (sals) basic one - and the edible earth oral clay which is a mix of calcium bentonite and montmorillonite clay. First - while his metals are high should I be using bathing and oral clay ? Second - is there anything you know about these products that I should be aware of - would you recommend another ? One of the things that was worrying me was that edible earth is very high in chromium which he is very high in already - is that a reason to avoid it? Are other clays lower in chromium?

Thank you for your time on this  - I know you've posted the answers to these before and I know I've read them, but I've struggled to find them again. After believing I knew what to do with the chorella and being wrong I want to double check I've got my facts right now before re-introducing the clay.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by KKKK74 

Panserbjourne - can you let me know a bit more about what you did?  I am currently leaning towards trialing 6 months of significant vitamin mineral increase to try and get him in as good a position as possible before intensive (mild Cutler style intensive !) chelating so if any of your suggestions could be implemented in this time just to begin reducing his metal load that would be worth considering. Of course we're caught in the usual catch 22 of high metals with damaged gut so vitamin/mineral supplements are not being absorbed and used properly anyway so maybe we just need to jump straight in and start right away????

Hi there-I used homeopathy primarily along with nutrition and flowers.  My kiddos also went for regular structural work to optimize the body's function.  I don't like the idea (personally) of aggressive chelation because I feel that it's traumatic.  People do have success, but even the success stories I read leave me feeling that it's more than I'm comfortable with.  I used a good remedy for each kid, plus the metals in specific orders (based on how they're detoxed) in potency to assist the body in ousting them.  I supported detox pathways with drainage remedies and used flowers as needed for any junk that came up.  The body work allowed them to continue to release and remove any blockages.  I also love cell salts for this.  I do believe that it's possible to up nutrition before chelating, so it's a big yes from me.

Does anyone have thoughts on which of these would be better i.e wait and try and build vitamin/minerals up, maybe heal the gut a little first (even though progress would be limited while his metals are high) or start straight away trying to get the metals down as everything else is ineffective until the metal load is reduced ???

I think the answer lies in the middle, if you can go gently.

Clay questions - I am a little confused at the moment about clay. We did start him on oral clay daily and one clay bath a week about 10 days ago. We are also started him on chorella as recommended to us by a health practitioner. I've since realised how dangerous it is to start the chorella with the whole blood brain barrier thing so I've stopped it but because I'm now scared I've also stopped the oral and bathing clay as well until I understand more. We were using the LL magnetic clay - non herbal (sals) basic one - and the edible earth oral clay which is a mix of calcium bentonite and montmorillonite clay. First - while his metals are high should I be using bathing and oral clay ? Second - is there anything you know about these products that I should be aware of - would you recommend another ? One of the things that was worrying me was that edible earth is very high in chromium which he is very high in already - is that a reason to avoid it? Are other clays lower in chromium?

I'm sure you have read that I think clay is perfectly fine to use!  I don't worry about that at all.

Thank you for your time on this  - I know you've posted the answers to these before and I know I've read them, but I've struggled to find them again. After believing I knew what to do with the chorella and being wrong I want to double check I've got my facts right now before re-introducing the clay.

It's a personal journey.  I know I've done things that I later regretted, usually at the suggestion of a practitioner.  It happens.  It also makes us more interested in reclaiming some personal power as well, educating ourselves so that we can properly question things.  If you don't feel comfortable with the clay right now, it's not time to use it.  There's nothing wrong with that.  It's certainly not the only way to go.

[KKKK74]

CH77 Homeopathic Chelation does anyone have any info ?

We have started seeing a new naturopath who has recommended we use CH77 for the chelation. I do like the guy and so far have agreed with everything he has said and feel he does know what is is talking about. He has a strong CV that suggests a good knowledge and experience.  

Typically though, I'd just come round to the idea of DMSA chelation with the Andy Cutler approach - I've ordered the Andy Cutler books and the DMSA and was set to go. I know very little about this CH77 and there is not much information online which makes me more nervous. Does anyone know anything about this product ?

Also thank you  Panserbjorne for your replies above - sorry it's taken me so long to respond. Homeopathy is completely new to me. I've just ordered the 2 books for beginners that you recommeded in a previous thread and I'm very interested to learn more.

[Juniper Gerrie-Sue]

We are using homeopathy as an alternative to chelation.  All the info is on my blog if you want to check it out.  Or email me juniperg at gmail dot com with any questions.  My son has food allergies (IGE mediated) as well as high IGG, indicating leaky gut.  Metals test (hair) was very high...results of those tests are on my blog.  He has had developmental delays, showed symptoms of autism, etc.  We have seen DRAMATIC improvement on all the above with the use of sequential homeopathy as well as a good diet, supplements, digestive enzymes.  Our homeopath is Rudi Verspoor of The Hahnemann Center for Heilkunst & Homeopathy.  All our consults are over the phone, cost of all remedies is included in the consult fee, which is reasonable.  I chose to use homeopathy because I was just plain too afraid to do chelation.  Plus, as Rudi has explained to me, there is a reason their body's have held on to the metals and homeopathy treats those reasons and encourages detoxification.

I hope that helps.  I totally get. it.  www.wenttofarmersmarket.blogspot.com

[Panserbjorne]

glad you're seeing improvement.  Rudi is a great guy and I do agree with his theories on why bodies hold on to metals.  He's got some great anthrophosphic roots.

[cobbie]

Hi,
I am new to this forum and from Singapore. I have a son who is mildly autistic and we have been on DAN protocol for about three months but we are seeing regression more than gains so far. So we are getting doubtful and our DAN recommends chelation too as he has very high hair mercury. I am very interested in sequential homeopathy and it's approach in treating root causes rather than masking symptoms. Does Rudi sees international patients? And may I ask more on his theory why our children holds heavy metal ?
I am too afraid of using DMSA for chelating. Chelation has to be done for years and nobody can vouch for its effect on our young children. I am also keen on ch77 and I have read good reviews on a website posted by a DAN here for children in Singapore and Australia. And also you mentioned about books on homeopathy, may I have the titles ?
Thanks!

[KKKK74]

Cobbie  - I'm also in Singapore PM if you want. I have friends chelating in different ways including some using CH77.

Edited by KKKK74 - 9/15/11 at 5:54pm