Children with grand, impractical schemes

[loraxc]

DD is always planning/scheming for large events she wants to make happen. Usually they involve inviting a lot of other people over. She has wanted to hold a native plant sale, a cat toy sale, and an art sale (she is not focused on the money, though) at our house, all of which we sort of danced around and did not make happen. As a compromise, we made her an Etsy store selling art, which I discontinued because we were being semi-stalked by a nice but strange older woman who was buying all the art and requesting custom pieces. (I never expected anyone to buy the darn art!) She also recently participated in an art show for kids through a local group, which was exciting for her but still not "enough."

Now she has written a musical (some of which is cribbed from her current class play, but a lot of which is original). She wants to have auditions, rehearse, direct, perform the play and film it. She goes to a performing arts school, so performance is sort of normal to her, but also this is just another example of her trend to "go big." She has kids in mind whom she wants to cast.

I'd like to make this happen to some degree, but let's face it, we are not probably going to actually get a bunch of other kids to learn all their lines and the songs and choreography (right?). The idea of contacting other parents to try to get theit kids involved is also quite embarrassing to me, TBH.

I am enlisting you guys to help me think of a way to help her get what she wants out of this. I have considered bringing the script to her drama teacher's attention, but they are focused on the other play right now and we are not the most popular family there anyway, since DD is leaving the school at the end of the year. She did bring the script in to music class because she sang a song from it on "performance day," and her music teacher was apparently pretty astonished and told her to show it to her classroom teacher, but I don't know if she did.

I have also considered staging a reading, so to speak, but that doesn't help with singing the songs (people wouldn't know the tunes). Also, the kids she wants to participate don't have the reading ability this requires yet. It would have to be older kids (we don't know many) or grown-ups.

Also, I am going to sign her up for drama camp this summer, but I don't know how weird it is to push my child's script on an established camp, YK?

Or maybe I should just put her off and let it go. But I am always doing this. I feel kind of crappy about it. She is a big thinker, and I hate to discourage that. She also desperately wants to be older/function as an older person in some way, and this is part of that, for sure.

It does not help that my husband and I are introverts who dislike calling attention to ourselves.

[whatsnextmom]

I'd probably take it in stages. For starters, I'd get some trusted adults together and start with a circle reading at the house. When the song comes up, she can play it or perform it. If she's happy with how that turned out and wants to go bigger, my first step would be to get the instrumental accompianment of the music recorded. Just because it's a staged reading doesn't mean it's not rehearsed. Certainly, musicals start as staged readings too. Actors are never hard to find no matter the project. Kid actors are expecially easy to find. Being at the school she's at, I suspect it'll be a snap to get kids if she can be allowed to advertise on campus.

Another option is to go straight to film. When my DD was a preschooler, she wanted to do a play :with her friends" but I didn't really see that happening. So, instead, DD adapted "three little pigs" which we felt was easy enough to produce. We "cast" the show with her little playgroup friends. One afternoon, we shot it in a friends yard. We just rehearsed one scene at a time and then shot it. The kids didn't have to memorize anything for long and if they messed up, they just tried again. There was only one song and enough repetition and the kids learned it enough to do it in the movie. Then DD and I edited it all the useable footage together and it ended up totally adorable! It's a real keepsake now.

Now DD is 14 and has started her own youth Shakespeare company. We're still hunting for an appropriate (and inexpensive) venue for this summer but all the other ducks are lined up. She adapted the script to a 1 hour version which is actually quite difficult with shakespeare. Once she has nailed down a performance date, she can begin rehearsals. Of course, DD is older and has the benefit of being around and involved in theatre all her life. Her resources are quite extensive and finding youth actors and designers has been the easy part of the whole thing.

I know several cities have organizations to support local playwrites. My DS is currently acting in a professional production in our area and all the scripts were winners of the annual playwriting competition. The winners get to work side by side with noted authors to refine their piece. Two get full productions and the other 2 get staged readings.  The youngest winner this year is 11. The program also holds courses and workshops for young playwrites. Take a peek, maybe you'll be lucky enough to have something like this in your area.

[Tigerchild]

By the time I was in 2nd grade, I was regularly putting together "radio" productions (radio theater) and by 5th grade I was renting video cameras from the base (a big deal in those days, they were huge and expensive) to put together movies.  I recruited people, held practices and figured things out.

I would support your DD in what SHE wants to do, but limit your involvement.  She'll figure out how to scale back.  Be prepared to host lots of playdates.  Encourage her to ask her drama teachers for advice on how she could do something (rather than asking them to take it up for her).

I was so happy with my "real movies!" as a kid.  Even held neighborhood screenings which (god bless our awesome neighbors and friends' parents) were well attended even though...well, they were NOT masterpieces to the adult eyes, but we kids had a great time and I loved seeing my project. (And I got better every time, too!)

I also did plays in the neighborhood, but once I started dabbling in video I liked that a lot better (this may or may not be the case for your DD, video was a lot easier for my storytelling because I didn't always have to have everyone there at the same time, things could be shot out of sequence, ect.).   The nice thing about tech today is that i'm sure it's a hell of a lot easier to edit than ye olde 2 vcr method that I was using at 11!!

Anyway, I would not quash her grand schemes, but I wouldn't bend over backwards to "make it happen" FOR her.  Also, she may just love dreaming/planning, and that is *perfectly okay*.  It's not great for her to get used to being the idea person and have other people do the grunt work--to be honest, that means she'll be longer in learning how to make things happen for herself, and how to have realistic (though optimistic) expectations of the other people that are involved.

[loraxc]

Thanks for the thoughts. I am talking it over with her, and she is open to doing a staged reading with mostly adults. We can practice the songs a few times and my husband can play guitar. We can also film it. I really think this will work better anyway. We have some great friends who would enjoy this.

Tigerchild, I think one thing about your suggestion is that kids today don't live in the same environment we did. DD has only one neighborhood friend her age, for a variety of reasons. Also, kids don't run in packs anymore, YK? For her to set it up herself would require her sepaking to parents to organize group playdates at mutually acceptable times, which is a lot to ask of a first-grader. I would have to set it up, logically speaking.

Now DD is 14 and has started her own youth Shakespeare company. We're still hunting for an appropriate (and inexpensive) venue for this summer but all the other ducks are lined up. She adapted the script to a 1 hour version which is actually quite difficult with shakespeare. Once she has nailed down a performance date, she can begin rehearsals. Of course, DD is older and has the benefit of being around and involved in theatre all her life. Her resources are quite extensive and finding youth actors and designers has been the easy part of the whole thing.

This is really awesome. I want to be you when I grow up. BTW, when I was 16 I adapted Ibsen's A Doll's House to a one-act play (and staged it). I can imagine how difficult her job was!

I have a question for you, since you're involved in kids' theater. DD seems to have developed a major interest in this (mainly due to her school environment, I think), but she isn't actually outstanding at it by any means. That is, she's trainable and interested, but there's no particular spark there; in fact, she tends to be awkward on stage (she also does not sing or dance well for her age). Is there an accepting place for kids like this in kids' theater? Or does it tend to be more focused on kids with real talent?

[Roar]

I agree with the suggestion that you offer encouraging words but limit your involvement. I'd make it clear what you can offer - a listening ear, driving her to the store for supplies, access to the video camera. But, I would personally not be in charge of recruiting adults to participate. No way. I'd offer compassion "yes, that's too bad that there are more parts than participants". Many a kid in the history of kids has had dolls and stuffed animals play roles. Or, they've learned to write for the two kids they have who want to participate. She'll figure it out.

[loraxc]

It may be important to say that we have not historically helped her make any of these schemes happen. As a result, there was no plant sale or cat toy sale or art sale or....I could go on. I guess I am starting to feel, though, that a less lazy or less shy parent would help out a little more. It's not a completely standard interest/desire for a 7yo, and I recognize that, but it's always been this way with her. And it's not that she lacks the initiative and is sitting there waiting for me to figure it out for her, if that's the impression I'm giving. No no no. It's more been like, "No, you cannot stand in the driveway and flag down passing cars to ask them if they want to buy a weed in a plastic pot."

Mind you, she would prefer the other actors to be other kids. It's not that she would mind asking! Not at all. It would be different if we knew a lot of older kids and older kids' families that she could recruit from. But she's the oldest, and all our friends also have 7 and under kids. There is the attendant problem of the kids that she knows being too young to really do what she wants here (the play is not Shakespeare, but it's multiple pages long and includes 4 songs). I suppose one could consider that a "lesson," (ie, the kids show up, they don't want to/can't read the script or sustain the attention to practice and film, and everyone ends up playing on the swingset) but I don't know if it's one she needs to be taught, as I feel like it's one she learns over and over again already. Meanwhile, the adults we know tend to be very arty and I can think of at least 3-4 who would get a big kick out of this.

I'm a little mystified by the "Don't facilitate" attitude in some of these posts, actually. I mean, if she wanted to say, learn martial arts, I wouldn't say, "Here's the phone book...you figure it out," or "Why don't you teach your stuffed animals karate?" Or, "Yes, it's too bad that I don't feel like taking you to art class."

I guess I am not totally sure what the subtext is in these posts--is it "You're indulging the child and making her think her play is worth something when it isn't"? (I could see this, but I don't think it's a huge deal. I feel like we are actually very regular deflators of DD's dreams.) Is it that you think I am putting these other adults horribly on the spot? (Heaven knows I would only ask very good friends. This doesn't worry me. PLus I would provide wine. ) Is it that you think this will make her into someone who relies on others to do things for her? (Not a chance. I guess you'd have to know her.)
Edited by loraxc - 4/2/11 at 3:29pm

[zebra15]

I deal with this with DS on a smaller scale. DS wanted for the longest time to make 'stop motion' movies. (I had no idea what those were and I had no interest in learning).  He continually played out the parts with his legos.  He wrote the scripts each lego man would play, where each car would go etc.  Finally last christmas he recieved a digitial camera and his laptop has a moviemaker program on it.  NOW he could make the movies he wanted to.  I still have no idea what he is talking about but the delayed gratification was good for him.   I am also searching out a summer daycamp that focuses on computer programming and the movie making.  He is good at this 'stuff' but I'm sorry that mommy just has no interest.  DS is 10.

[lindberg99]

Originally Posted by loraxc 

I'm a little mystified by the "Don't facilitate" attitude in some of these posts, actually. I mean, if she wanted to say, learn martial arts, I wouldn't say, "Here's the phone book...you figure it out," or "Why don't you teach your stuffed animals karate?" Or, "Yes, it's too bad that I don't feel like taking you to art class."

I guess I am not totally sure what the subtext is in these posts--is it "You're indulging the child and making her think her play is worth something when it isn't"? (I could see this, but I don't think it's a huge deal. I feel like we are actually very regular deflators of DD's dreams.) Is it that you think I am putting these other adults horribly on the spot? (Heaven knows I would only ask very good friends. This doesn't worry me. PLus I would provide wine. ) Is it that you think this will make her into someone who relies on others to do things for her? (Not a chance. I guess you'd have to know her.)

If you were signing her up for karate, you facilitating the activity would involve you and her and the karate teacher. It wouldn't involve other people (well, unless you formed a carpool). That is the difference to me. And while I know you said your friends don't mind, I personally would feel very put on the spot if a good friend asked me to do this. I get really uncomfortable even thinking about it! But obviously you're not going to be asking random people from message boards to be in it  and know your friends well enough to know which ones to ask. Good luck!

zebra15 - My kids have done a lot of stop action movies. It is a neat hobby.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by loraxc 

I'm a little mystified by the "Don't facilitate" attitude in some of these posts, actually. I mean, if she wanted to say, learn martial arts, I wouldn't say, "Here's the phone book...you figure it out," or "Why don't you teach your stuffed animals karate?" Or, "Yes, it's too bad that I don't feel like taking you to art class."

I guess I am not totally sure what the subtext is in these posts--is it "You're indulging the child and making her think her play is worth something when it isn't"? (I could see this, but I don't think it's a huge deal. I feel like we are actually very regular deflators of DD's dreams.) Is it that you think I am putting these other adults horribly on the spot? (Heaven knows I would only ask very good friends. This doesn't worry me. PLus I would provide wine. ) Is it that you think this will make her into someone who relies on others to do things for her? (Not a chance. I guess you'd have to know her.)

I'm not sure if it is my post you were responding to or someone else. Personally I don't see anyone telling you the equivalent of telling her here's the phone book find your own martial arts class or you can't learn karate go play with your stuffed animals. I think it is perfectly reasonable to contribute what you wish in terms of your own time and money. However, I don't think kids need for us to arrange and facilitate that their every dream is carried out and quickly that can turn into a shift of responsibility where YOU have to feel responsible that her dreams aren't coming true. It sounds like that is already the case. It isn't your job to create a world where your daughter's dreams come true. It isn't your job to make playmates want to play what she wants to play or make people want to listen to what she wants to say. Very easily that can cross a line where you are taking away from what she's doing. My childhood was chock full of schemes (money making, haunted houses, plays, etc. etc.) It never occurred to me that adults were responsible to make those come to fruition and frankly I would have been insulted if they'd tried. The job of adults was to provide minimal financial support and at my invitation show up and smile in the rare situation where the scheme was carried out and not abandoned for another.

I'd be fine with her efforts to recruit friends (adult or child) to participate and I'd happily buy the wine or whatever. I think though that the idea and the contact needs to come from her.

[journeymom]

This is an awesome thread. Not only was I that kid, but my son is that way to some extent.

Originally Posted by loraxc 
I'm a little mystified by the "Don't facilitate" attitude in some of these posts, actually. I mean, if she wanted to say, learn martial arts, I wouldn't say, "Here's the phone book...you figure it out," or "Why don't you teach your stuffed animals karate?" Or, "Yes, it's too bad that I don't feel like taking you to art class."

I guess I am not totally sure what the subtext is in these posts--is it "You're indulging the child and making her think her play is worth something when it isn't"? (I could see this, but I don't think it's a huge deal. I feel like we are actually very regular deflators of DD's dreams.) Is it that you think I am putting these other adults horribly on the spot? (Heaven knows I would only ask very good friends. This doesn't worry me. PLus I would provide wine. ) Is it that you think this will make her into someone who relies on others to do things for her? (Not a chance. I guess you'd have to know her.)

Eh. You asked and people answered. I think you're being defensive. Your posts imply that you have mixed up feelings about this.  I don't see any negative subtext here, and certainly no one said anything about making the play into something it isn't.  My impression at least is that people are giving you permission to not be heavily involved in this if it's not your thing. 

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by loraxc 

 It's more been like, "No, you cannot stand in the driveway and flag down passing cars to ask them if they want to buy a weed in a plastic pot."

 Why dont you let her try this?? It really is no different than a lemonade stand. Maybe try a lemonade stand or have her help you do a garage sale?? ( or sell lemonade and snacks at a garage sale)Both are 'large' events that would allow her to explore her budding sales/organization/desire for large events. If they do not do well, there - too- is a life lesson in that. She may take away a different idea of success than an adult.

Mind you, she would prefer the other actors to be other kids. It's not that she would mind asking! Not at all. It would be different if we knew a lot of older kids and older kids' families that she could recruit from. But she's the oldest, and all our friends also have 7 and under kids. There is the attendant problem of the kids that she knows being too young to really do what she wants here (the play is not Shakespeare, but it's multiple pages long and includes 4 songs).

Why not any kids 7 & under ? I have two 5 yr olds (that can read fluently) that just did a drama class that involved a kid led- but teacher 'finalized' script. Over the course of 4 classes they picked a theme, learned a 3 page script, sang 4 songs. Then did a short presentation for the parents for the parents. There were 10 kids in the class ages 5-7. It was a community class for any kid that signed up K-1st grade age.

 

You also could help her par down the script and phrase it in a positive way-- in order to accommodate a younger group. You dont have to read to learn the songs, thought it would take some practice.

 

But there is no reason that she could not do this with her friends. Invite school friends over for that reason-- a 'play' play date. Most 7 yr olds could read and sing and most do not care if they are 'good' or not. 

 

 the adults we know tend to be very arty and I can think of at least 3-4 who would get a big kick out of this.

 

Why not have her do a mini one-girl show for your adult friends & their little kids? She could design the ads/invites, write a program, present a song or two. My sister and I did this for my parents, my neighboors (they were so sweet to attend), and grandparents. She sang and I played the clarinet. We also did a short puppet show. It was corny, yes, but we had fun and the adults had fun. I have fabulous memories of organizing these things.

 

One of my DDs is a big thinker and is always writing lists, planning, creating things, making designs and wanting to do things like this. We have had her help plan some small events (birthday, spontaneous 'pink' party for visiting family, help organize a school book drive, organize our garage sale, etc), but some she simply enjoys daydreaming about and the process of the whole thing. Some we do tell her no- we are not doing that right now (traveling to Europe based on her handmade map, buying and making an elaborate wardrobe out of fabric). At times she will redo her plans-- -she then made a paper wardrobe for her dolls with her designs. And some - like the Europe trip, are not happening! But she has been happy with an audience of her relatives or writing/illustrating a cookbook and letting me photocopy it to send to family members (vs presenting it to Borders and demanding they carry it in the store.LOL!). She found that if *we* valued it, acknowledged what she created or her ideas, she found a lot of pride in that recognition (at this age at least). We probably only 'follow through' in some form (or abbreviated form) of her grand schemes 10% of the time. Sometimes just talking about it is enough as well or doing a 'pretend' activity (we pretended to go to Hawaii, watched Youtube videos of hula dancing, and then wore bathing suits all day for the exotic vacations she wanted to plan).

Just think, as adults we have a lot of 'dreams' in the making (writing a book, building a dream house, getting a certain degree, pursuing a hobby, starting a small business, etc). Some we do and some we only dream about...some we try and find we love it or do not. Some we learn different things than we anticipated...some we  have to prioritize depending on timing and resources. Some take longer and are much harder than others.... It is a learning experience. I dont see why a kid should be any different.

Yes, you can pursue some 'big ideas' no matter what age. But not all of them at once and they will not always work out the way your want. But- it is a learning experience.  Just help guide her to ones that you *can* do now vs ones that are not realistic at this time.

There are a lot of big idea events you can do. She can write a book and get it printed (they have kits at teacher stores, online, and craft stores), she can organize a 'drive' (penny drive, dog/cat food, book, etc) at school, she can start to volunteer at age 6+ a lot of places (animals shelters), prepare activities to do and visit elderly at residential homes, submit art and written stories to magazines like Ranger Rick, Cricket, etc.  All those would be kid-centric activities that would help her focus her 'drive' for a big event that are also age appropriate and functional.

DH & I are introverted people, as is one of my DDs twin. So - yes, sometimes I have to reach out of my own comfort zone. But really- both my DD (her twin) and I benefit from the stretching of our 'limits'. I find it much harder to parent the child that is not 'like' me- but also I have learned a lot more from the journey so far.

Edited by KCMichigan - 4/2/11 at 4:24pm

[mamabutterfly]

I definitely hear where you're coming from, and have had some similar experience with my dd. She's now 9, and come to think of it, around 6/7 was certainly the peak of that for her. In fact, now on the cusp of the "tween" years, i feel like self-consciousness is curbing some of her biggest big ideas and, well, it's kind of sad to me, lol! Even though it made me a little crazy and I too felt sad often that I was putting off or squelching some of the things I didn't feel like taking on. I have also been guilty of discouraging many a lemonade stand, art sale, book sale, bake sale. She's wanted to set up many stands on our front sidewalk... you'd have to know my neighborhood to get why this would be tough here. I think it also breaks my heart when a kid is trying to sell something no one will buy. I haven't wanted her to do this big things and let them flop. Which I feel like a better mom would let happen, since that is part of the learning and growing of the experience. I think I try to 'protect' her from disappointment too much.

On the other hand, don't know if this is your dd too, but mine is very resistant to participating in other people's endeavors,so there is an element of control in it for her. For me, if she is very interested in how plays are put on (which she is), she could learn a lot by being part of a play... but she tried the school play and couldn't stand taking direction. She wanted to gather a group of friends for a play she would direct. There is a tendency towards bossiness in her, but also this amazing creative, imaginative, ambitious mind, like you are describing with your daughter too. So I haven't known, honestly, how to channel and support this beautiful part of her while also helping support her in developing social skills that work with other kids. 

These days, as she has gotten a little older and is really taking off with writing and reading, she's gravitating more towards creating graphic novels and writing books, inventing musicals she performs alone (again the emerging self-consciousness). So it's less of wanting to throw the events. She still wants to throw parties a lot, and once in a while we run with one of those. :)

Next year we're moving from 3rd grade to homeschooling though, so I'm hoping to get better at allowing her much more room to experiment and run with her own ideas. (Helps that she is old enough to take more initiative too).

Long response, just wanted to say I can totally empathize!

[loraxc]

And while I know you said your friends don't mind, I personally would feel very put on the spot if a good friend asked me to do this. I get really uncomfortable even thinking about it!

Yeah...I know what you mean. You would just have to know these particular people. Some do community theater. They would dig it. Also, they are my very close friends. I am actually far LESS uncomfortable asking them than i would be trying to arrange playdates with parents of children I barely know in which their children would be expected to rehearse a play written by my child.

However, I don't think kids need for us to arrange and facilitate that their every dream is carried out and quickly that can turn into a shift of responsibility where YOU have to feel responsible that her dreams aren't coming true.

Every dream...certainly not. Heck no! There is little danger of this, trust me.

My childhood was chock full of schemes (money making, haunted houses, plays, etc. etc.) It never occurred to me that adults were responsible to make those come to fruition and frankly I would have been insulted if they'd tried.

Well, she is 7. She has to ask us permission to have kids over. I have to arrange the date/time of the playdate with the parents. I assume your parents had something to do with getting the other kids to the house when you had plays and haunted houses, right? She wrote, illustrated, and choreographed the play on her own. She is making the scenery on her own. She is (trying) to make the costumes on her own. Basically, al; she is asking of us is for us to call the parents and arrange playdates. It's always been done this way in our lives--the kids do not schedule the playdates themselves.

I agree that in an ideal world, she would have some pack of neighborhood friends who wanted to do this with her in the back yard and were capable of sustaining the interest. She doesn't, at this time. That isn't really her fault, you know? And yes, she does ask for our...not so much help, as facilitation/permission at times. I think kids were more separate from their parents and inhabited their own worlds more when we were children. Families are somewhat more enmeshed now and kids have less independence. As for whether these changes are a good thing..perhaps not, but they are what they are.

One of my DDs is a big thinker and is always writing lists, planning, creating things, making designs and wanting to do things like this. We have had her help plan some small events (birthday, spontaneous 'pink' party for visiting family, help organize a school book drive, organize our garage sale, etc), but some she simply enjoys daydreaming about and the process of the whole thing. Some we do tell her no- we are not doing that right now (traveling to Europe based on her handmade map, buying and making an elaborate wardrobe out of fabric). At times she will redo her plans-- -she then made a paper wardrobe for her dolls with her designs. And some - like the Europe trip, are not happening! But she has been happy with an audience of her relatives or writing/illustrating a cookbook and letting me photocopy it to send to family members (vs presenting it to Borders and demanding they carry it in the store.LOL!). She found that if *we* valued it, acknowledged what she created or her ideas, she found a lot of pride in that recognition (at this age at least). We probably only 'follow through' in some form (or abbreviated form) of her grand schemes 10% of the time. Sometimes just talking about it is enough as well or doing a 'pretend' activity (we pretended to go to Hawaii, watched Youtube videos of hula dancing, and then wore bathing suits all day for the exotic vacations she wanted to plan).

This sounds a lot like DD, yes, down to making her own wardrobe. Your thoughts are helpful.

BTW, as for why I didn't let her flag down cars--our street is a through street of sorts and our neighborhood is not a family-friendly quiet culdesac...it would be inappropriate and unsafe to flag down cars. In terms of younger kids and the play...she does go to a performing arts school, so the kids are in fact doing a play and regularly rehearsing it in school right now. You might think this would mean they'd be pros, but actually they are mostly kind of sick of it, or at least at capacity. I know one girl who would be interested, and we will ask her, but otherwise our immediate peer group isn't a great choice. If I go to our larger peer group, we are also not looking at a group with interest in this. (I could explain why, but it would be lengthy.) The kids in the class your kids did signed up for it, YK? And they had a teacher to lead...

I guess the reason I sound defensive (I recognize that I do) is that we have tended to routinely shut all these ideas down. I mean, of course she could play them on her own time, but when it starts to be "And now we will call everyone we know and ask them to come to my art show this afternoon" or "And now we need to go the hardware store to buy all the materials for my bird amusement park"--we say no. Since I am just now rethinking this a little, ready to try harder with that 10%, it's confusing to be hit with "No, no, don't help her."

[loraxc]

mamabutterfly, we corss-posted.

Even though it made me a little crazy and I too felt sad often that I was putting off or squelching some of the things I didn't feel like taking on. I have also been guilty of discouraging many a lemonade stand, art sale, book sale, bake sale. She's wanted to set up many stands on our front sidewalk... you'd have to know my neighborhood to get why this would be tough here. I think it also breaks my heart when a kid is trying to sell something no one will buy. I haven't wanted her to do this big things and let them flop. Which I feel like a better mom would let happen, since that is part of the learning and growing of the experience.

Yes, our neighborhood is similar (I imagine) in that the idyllic lemonade stand out front is just not going to work here.

I think you're right that there is an element of me not wanting to have to watch her completely flop, and that that is something to be careful about. I think directing a play is a pretty big job for a 7yo, and that expecting her to negotiate the subtleties of the social side of that within her age group is setting her up to fail a little, which does make me cringe. She has been having a tough time with some social stuff lately. With the right kids, it could work. But I don't think we know enough of the right kids.

I don't mind seeing her flop within reason. She chose some things for her kids' art sale recently that I knew would not sell, and they didn't, and she was disappointed. But...it was a kind environment, and she sold SOME things, so that was fine. Whereas flagging down passing cars to sell half-dead weeds could easily have led to someone swearing at her, which is a little too much reality, IMO.

[TEAK's Mom]

Personally, I think that having a group of your friends do a reading with her sounds like a nice balance. A play that she as written, set to music, choreographed, designed, and costumed is not a half-dead weed in a pot. If your friends would enjoy it and you are willing to provide the wine, then it sounds like a good way to honor the work she has done. I would make it clear to her that it is a special one-time deal and that your friends are not automatically available for all of her projects (this is based on one of my dds who over-steps that boundary sometimes).

I'm not suggesting that you suddenly take over making her dreams come true. But, your dd is coming up on the big school change and this might help ease the transition. She'll see that she will not lose her connection to the performing arts. I'm also guessing that, next year, as her school-work becomes more engaging, her interests will evolve, too.

Oh, and you can always suggest that she film her play as a puppet show. That way she only needs one or two actors and a camera person. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of puppets.

[joensally]

Puppet show is a great idea.  It requires the building of a puppet theatre (ie highly decorated cardboard box) and can involve a lovely blend of store-bought and hand-made puppets.  Filming it would be a great addition, and allows her to stretch her directorial wings.

[loraxc]

Puppet show IS a great idea! Maybe not for this one, since I already have put the idea of a reading in her head, but for other plays, especially less fully realized ones. (This one is actually pretty realized.) We haven't really done a lot with puppets, and I don't know why. I used to love doing that as a kid.

You know, I guess that was the kind of idea I was looking for. I'd like to do more "Well, you can't X...but you CAN y..." instead of just "You can't X. Oh well."

Personally, I think that having a group of your friends do a reading with her sounds like a nice balance. A play that she as written, set to music, choreographed, designed, and costumed is not a half-dead weed in a pot. If your friends would enjoy it and you are willing to provide the wine, then it sounds like a good way to honor the work she has done. I would make it clear to her that it is a special one-time deal and that your friends are not automatically available for all of her projects (this is based on one of my dds who over-steps that boundary sometimes).

I'm not suggesting that you suddenly take over making her dreams come true. But, your dd is coming up on the big school change and this might help ease the transition. She'll see that she will not lose her connection to the performing arts. I'm also guessing that, next year, as her school-work becomes more engaging, her interests will evolve, too.

You are quite right. It isn't a half-dead weed in a pot. That clarifies my feelings a little, I think. Good point about making it clear that it's a one-time thing.

And yes, I think some of this is about sadness about leaving the arts school--mine and hers both. I do want to honor it.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by loraxc 


Well, she is 7. She has to ask us permission to have kids over. I have to arrange the date/time of the playdate with the parents. I assume your parents had something to do with getting the other kids to the house when you had plays and haunted houses, right? She wrote, illustrated, and choreographed the play on her own. She is making the scenery on her own. She is (trying) to make the costumes on her own. Basically, al; she is asking of us is for us to call the parents and arrange playdates. It's always been done this way in our lives--the kids do not schedule the playdates themselves.

I agree that in an ideal world, she would have some pack of neighborhood friends who wanted to do this with her in the back yard and were capable of sustaining the interest. She doesn't, at this time. That isn't really her fault, you know? And yes, she does ask for our...not so much help, as facilitation/permission at times. I think kids were more separate from their parents and inhabited their own worlds more when we were children. Families are somewhat more enmeshed now and kids have less independence. As for whether these changes are a good thing..perhaps not, but they are what they are.
 

Yes, it was a time when kids were more independent of adults. I'd say about 95% of the stuff that we planned (alone, with a sibling, or with one or two kids in the neighborhood) never reached the final stage before we moved on to something else. Or, if it did some of the parts were played by dolls or stuffed animals or a young sibling who kept wandering off. The value was in the process of doing it on our own not in the end product. Perhaps that would be different if we had the idea that adults would make it happen - maybe then it we would have been disappointed. I don't know though - my main reaction if an adult would have tried to step in at that level would have been to be insulted because it wasn't about them.

At any rate, I'm raising a kid in this generation. He wrote quite a few plays complete plays and yes, it was neat. Sure, he would have loved to own a band of robot children who would have followed his bidding but alas they don't exist. Had there been a band of real kids I feel fairly confident they would not have gotten his odd vision and would have ended up irritating him by having their own ideas that didn't reconcile with his. And, I can't imagine telling him that adults would want to regularly come over and play in the way he dictated. It never occurred to me that it was my job to find people to be in his plays anymore than it would have occurred to my parents.

If she wants to get school friends involved in this project, couldn't she ask them at school and try to gauge interest? If she's said she wants adults in the play could she ask them herself?

[loraxc]

Hmm--I think you are still not getting me somehow, Roar. SHE didn't ask me to find people to be in her play. She asked me to call to set up "rehearsals" with the parents of the kids she wants to be in the play, who may or may not be interested. I think one actually is, but the others maybe have not been clear one way or the other but likely aren't...not clear from my conversations with her. Anyway, I really don't want to do that. I think it's presumptuous/weird/awkward and is going to end badly, probably with DD frustrated and perhaps in tears. But she really wants to put this play on.

But it would not occur to her to be insulted at my suggestion that adults could be in the play instead of kids. She was pleased--it hadn't occurred to her, but it sounded good. I don't know if this is about the times, my child, or personalities. She is certainly very independent, but she asks for help sometimes with stuff she can't figure out how to pull off herself. She has asked me to write down things for her while she dictates; she asks me how to glue things so they hold. But, for instance, she would never come to ask me for an idea (THAT would insult her) and she hasn't asked me to play pretend with her in eons. I don't believe she thinks of adults as playmates, but as people who know where the scissors are and have the cell numbers programmed into their phones. I just have zero concerns about her turning into a person who relies on adults to make things happen for her. If you knew her, this would maybe make more sense.

[whatsnextmom]

Loraxc, your DD is still very little! She doesn't need to have "spark" in order to have fun with theatre or even grow into a fantastic actress. Truth be told, few actors who are successful as children continue such success as adults. The qualities that make them stand out as children don't always work in an adult. The big, brassy ones get a lot of attention when they are little but often it's the quieter, more serious and subdued ones that pull out front in the early teen years.

Youth theatre is supposed to be about theatre education and it's not expected that they'll be polished upon arrival. In our area, we have many different companies and all have a little different approach and attract a different types of kids. My kids take part in two. One is their school district program where everyone gets a part. They double/triple cast the leads. There are some are very expereinced but the vast majority are beginners. The other group is very professional and attracts kids who are serious about their craft. Both programs have value and certainly, there are scads of programs inbetween. I always reccomend looking into a program that has an education department, not just does shows. I know the kids youth program has play production and play writing as young as 5-years-old!

I also wanted to say that it's OK for you to help. She's 7 right? It's great enough that she wrote a musical by herself! It's great that she wants to produce it. But heck, she's 7 and she doesn't have the experience to know what all the different possibilities are. I mean, none of us learn EVERYTHING from scratch. I didn't refuse to let my DD use a recipe book the first time she wanted to bake cookies lol. I didn't make her figure out the stove on her own. Heck, I even taught her to crack each egg in seperate bowl so that if she couldn't get all the shell out, she wouldn't have to toss the whole mix out. When my DD was 4 and wanted to do a movie, well, she needed help and I gave it to her. She didn't know how to edit movies so she sat on my lap and we figured it out together. It was fun. We bonded lol. Believe me, it didn't stunt her growth and independance at all. In fact, she learned a whole lot. She's now 14, but there are still certain areas where she needs my help, like booking a venue. She can research and decide which one she wants but no one is going to give a permit to a kid in our area. They want an adult. I don't feel you are crossing any lines by giving her options or helping her see the depth of an issue when she's had no experience that would have taught it to her. I wonder at the response you are getting. Perhaps we just get used to our kids seemingly learning everything on their own with little need for adult help. We forget that most kids get help and guidance routinely. This is a big endeavor and it could be a lot of fun if you both are on board. Don't worry what others say. Be as present as your DD wants you to be!