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Is this type of tantrum as extreme as it feels?

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Maybe I just had it good with my DD (almost 6). Or maybe my DS has really severe tantrums. I don't know. Please weigh in.

First of all, here's a related thread about his nighttime sleep-tantrums: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1306534/desperate-for-advice-regarding-raging-night-wakings#post_16364623

In the last two months or so, DS, who just turned 3, has been having a lot of tantrums. At least a few per week. One day recently he had 4 in 12 hours. Following is an account of one he had today. I feel that this is a very typical one.

We were walking to lunch at a café. He was riding his new bike on the sidewalk. We approached a woman with three small dogs. One of them bounded up to us and we all petted him. My son wanted them all to sniff him. The second dog was happy to oblige. But the third one was wandering around in the planting beds and the owner said that he wouldn't be interested. DS got a sulky face and said that he wanted that one to sniff him. We explained that some dogs don't want to sniff him or be petted. We encouraged him to keep on biking. We reminded him that the girls at the café (with whom he flirts constantly) hadn't seen his new bike yet and he hadn't yet gotten to use his new lock, etc. He just stood there and sulked. Then the third dog came over and it sniffed his hand. Great. I thought we'd be good now. No. Now he had had everything he wanted, but he had gone past the point of no return and was determined to be unhappy.

He sat on his bike and insisted on going nowhere. I said that DH and DD could go to lunch and we'd go home. He screamed. DD tried hard to get him interested in things that she saw under the water in the canal -- not interested. DD said she'd found a game to play -- not interested. I walked on. He screamed. I walked towards home. He screamed. I told DH and DD to go on and I sat on the park bench 20 feet behind him, since he just wanted to stay in that one spot all day. He screamed. I had to stand precisely next to him. He regularly yelled his tantrum favorites, which are "CAN YOU HEAR ME?" "CAN YOU SEE ME?" and "MAMA, WHY AREN'T YOU TALKING?" I am virtually always looking at him and talking to him when he says these.

I tried picking him up and carrying him home. He started flailing and screaming ow, like I was hurting him, which was pretty embarrassing since I was on a residential street and, by now I'm sure, had a number of spectators. Absolutely nothing was okay with him. I picked him up again to carry him home and he finally started screaming that he wanted to bike to the café. But first I had to put his bike back in some specific spot. I couldn't figure out exactly where the magic spot was. Then he kept saying "you decide for me!" and I told him that I had decided that he should get on his bike and go in the direction of the café. I couldn't figure out what he was getting at with this decision thing. He finally stopped yelling about that and got on his bike and biked very slowly, crying.

Then we crossed a big road, where I had to keep a hand on his bike a bit because it's just too big of a road. He didn't like that. Then he wanted to continue on on the other side in the road instead of on the sidewalk. The rest of the walk had him biking slowly, crying and repeating over and over like a mantra "I want to bike in the road."

We got to the café and had a bit of drama about locking his bike because it's not that easy, but it wasn't as bad as the locking issue has been in the past when he's had to share a different lock with his sister. Then we went inside (where he knows that I won't let him stay while he's crying (we're regulars there)) and he stopped and I gave him a toy from my purse and he snapped out of it and was his normal cheerful self again.

This whole thing went on at least half an hour. Probably more like 45 minutes. Like I said above, sometimes lately this happens multiple times per day. It's been at least several times per week for the last 6 weeks or so. When he does it I feel so amazingly helpless. Like I have lost total control of my life because this totally unreasonable person who is determined to be unhappy has me in his clutches and I have no means of escape.

My daughter's tantrums were more the type where she didn't get what she wanted and laid down on the floor and kicked and screamed for 5 minutes until I managed to get a boob into her mouth and then she stopped. They were pretty infrequent. Maybe once per month or something. I thought that was pretty normal. This doesn't feel normal to me. Are my expectations out of whack? Is my kid out of whack? Any and all advice will be appreciated.
post #2 of 10

When my daughter was around that age, trying to placate her just made the tantrum never ending.  Multiple people trying to show her things, engage her in things, meet her half way with her demands just prolonged the torture for all of us.  Same with something like trying to find where to put the bike or whatever - that would've just kept things going.

 

I think sometimes you have to just step back and disengage.  Trying to "fix" things doesn't really work because it seems to me when they are that deep into a tantrum, they're a little bit enjoying the release and have mostly forgotten what started it.  The momentum has already started and the best thing you can do is say ok, we're going home - and let him sort it out for himself at home. 

 

Once I stopped trying to "fix" everything, my daughter stopped having tantrums. Now, she might get over-tired or hungry and have a big teary melt down, but I feel like i figured out her tantrums early - if I disengaged, they quickly burned out.

post #3 of 10


First, I would like to say, yes, this that sort of tantrum is totally normal



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteNicole View Post

When my daughter was around that age, trying to placate her just made the tantrum never ending.  Multiple people trying to show her things, engage her in things, meet her half way with her demands just prolonged the torture for all of us.  Same with something like trying to find where to put the bike or whatever - that would've just kept things going.

 

I think sometimes you have to just step back and disengage.  Trying to "fix" things doesn't really work because it seems to me when they are that deep into a tantrum, they're a little bit enjoying the release and have mostly forgotten what started it.  The momentum has already started and the best thing you can do is say ok, we're going home - and let him sort it out for himself at home. 

 

Once I stopped trying to "fix" everything, my daughter stopped having tantrums. Now, she might get over-tired or hungry and have a big teary melt down, but I feel like i figured out her tantrums early - if I disengaged, they quickly burned out.

 

And yes, this.

 

In your case, after 3rd dog comes and sniffs, I would say, ok, lets go.  He insists on going no where...well you have until I count to three and then we are going home, because I am not going to stand here all day.  At the end of 3, I pick said child up and go home, kicking and screaming if necessary.  If I am incapable of carrying due to the kicking and screaming, then DH carries.  End of story.  There's no walking towards the cafe or towards home, there's no here play this game with me, no where do you want me to set your bike.  Seriously I do not have time to be played with like that. 

post #4 of 10
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies. Does the frequency of this happening at least multiple times per week and sometimes multiple times per day also sound normal? If so, how long might that frequency last? I'm running out of patience to deal with it.

Regarding just going home and letting him work it out for himself, I agree that that's what I should do. However, it mostly happens at home. And then he chases me around screaming at me. I can't just walk out of the room. And if I lock myself in the bathroom or something to cool off it seems to drag things out and when he's finished all he talks about is how I went away. It seems to really upset him. It's all very difficult. And then DH tells me how I should be more mature, which I should be, but it's easy for him to say since DS wants nothing to do with him so he can just walk away.

Please let this not last too much longer.
post #5 of 10
DS has tantrums similar to that... He has never done that lay on the floor screaming & kicking thing, his tantrums are much more similar to your DS's... though they last a lot less time. I agree with NiteNicole that trying to placate & accommodate him will probably just cause it to escalate. It's kind of like his OCD-type toddler tendencies emerge when he's distressed & he needs things to be 'just right' but he can't figure out what 'just right' actually is. Usually I just tell DS that he can scream and cry and complain all he wants and when he is done he can come get a hug. And then I disengage until he's calm again. Or (especially at night) I will give him a simple choice, that he can continue screaming or he can lay quietly with me while I cuddle him. Sometimes he chooses to scream, and sometimes he chooses to cuddle (cuddle more often, I think). \

If you have trouble disengaging, maybe listening to song with headphones could help you 'block out' the chaos until he's calmer?

The frequency wouldn't concern me unless he's ALWAYS like that (and even then, I'm not sure it would concern me, but rather make me want to find a better solution). I notice DS has more tantrums during growth periods (physical or mental or emotional growth) or when things are too chaotic for him.
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post

If you have trouble disengaging, maybe listening to song with headphones could help you 'block out' the chaos until he's calmer?

I could try doing something like that. But I can already picture exactly how he'd be. He'd find a way to force himself right up to my face and would SCREAM "Mama, can you hear me? Mama, can you see me? Why are you not talking?" over and over and over and would pull at my face and such. I have often tried to put my hands over my eyes or put a pillow over my head or something when it all gets too much for me and he always claws whatever it is away from me. It often feels that the ignoring makes it worse. But what puts me over the edge is trying to explain to him what I am prepared to do for him or give him or whatever while he screams over the top of me that I'm not talking to him. It just makes my blood boil and isn't a good situation.

Oh, and I put this in the other thread, but I'm pregnant and nursing is irritating. When I'm angry I simply can't do it. I always try to give him a boob near the beginning of a tantrum, but he generally won't take it if he's just intent on being angry. If he does take it, then everything ends. But if he doesn't and it escalates, I then can't give it to him until I manage to calm down a little bit. It's so hard. I know that I can shut him up with it, but I also know that I'm just not capable of dealing with him sucking on my boobs when I'm that wound up.

Funny that you referred to it as being OCDish. DH made the same analogy today.
post #7 of 10

yep, the frequency sounds normal too.

 

One thing I have done with my 2 yr old when she has a total meltdown like that at home is that I will pick her up and walk her to another room and set her down there, then walk away.  I never tell her that she has to stay there or anything, I just tell her that if she wants to scream, then she can scream here, I don't want to listen to it, then walk away.  Sometimes she gets up and follows me, but often, she just lays there and throws her fit, then calms down.  I have, when it's just too much, done it more than once, meaning when she follows me, I just put her right back.  It's kinda like a time out...but more for me.  It's really just about me not wanting to hear the screaming, so go somewhere else and do it.

 

As far as how long it lasts....I found with my teen that usually around 4 or 5 it's mostly done.  And, the more consistant you are with how you deal with it, the less it will happen as well, because he will learn that a tantrum isn't going to get him his way and isn't going to get him everyone's attention all the time. 

post #8 of 10

You could try whispering to him when he's throwing a fit and you need to communicate with him.  Might work, might not.

post #9 of 10

What strikes me is not the frequency of the tantrums, but the length of them.  45 minutes for a fit like would make me loose my marbles.  So big hugs to you, mama, for being so strong and dealing with this so often.

 

The advice I have is similar to the others - to disengage, remove you and DS from whatever situation you are in, and be very calm and clear.  I am not an advocate of a "time out" per se, but it sounds like he needs to have some time to work through all of this.  Can you have him sit on the couch or on his bed and just sit with him, remaining calm and speak to him about how his behavior is unacceptable?  Or maybe ask a professional - call his doctor and ask them or ask for a referral to a therapist who can help you sort through this.  I think a plan needs to be devised and put into action because it sounds like it could very easily escalate to a point where everyone in your house is walking on eggshells as to not disrupt the normal flow and cause one of these fits.  

 

Good luck, mama.  

post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahmck View Post

I could try doing something like that. But I can already picture exactly how he'd be. He'd find a way to force himself right up to my face and would SCREAM "Mama, can you hear me? Mama, can you see me? Why are you not talking?" over and over and over and would pull at my face and such. I have often tried to put my hands over my eyes or put a pillow over my head or something when it all gets too much for me and he always claws whatever it is away from me. It often feels that the ignoring makes it worse. But what puts me over the edge is trying to explain to him what I am prepared to do for him or give him or whatever while he screams over the top of me that I'm not talking to him. It just makes my blood boil and isn't a good situation.

I don't know if this is accurate for you but could it be that he is screaming & escalating when you ignore him because he knows that eventually you'll STOP ignoring him & he'll get his way? It sounds like he may have caught on to the fact that the longer and louder he screams, the more likely you are to help him get what he wants. So yeah, he will scream more & it will be worse at first, but then it will subside & he'll learn it's ineffective & he just needs to deal with his emotions & move on.

DS had a fit last night & as soon as I saw him escalating I calmly said, "Do you want to cry by yourself or do you want me to hold you while you cry?" He chose to cry by himself so he went into the other room, cried for 2 minutes, and came back for a hug (still crying a little but calming down). One thing I noticed is that he doesn't always want/need me to 'fix' everything for him and sometimes I'm too quick to try to calm him instead of just letting him process his feelings. Do you ever just need to scream and cry? (I would imagine you do, with 45-minute tantrums several times a day! lol.gifhug.gif) Sometimes they just need to FEEL and not have someone hovering and trying to fix it or talk to them or whatever. I think your DS will resist this at first but over time it may help.

One other thought, is your DS getting a good balance of activity vs. down time? Does he know what's going on each day, what to expect (what will happen next), etc.?
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