Classmates="Friends" How do you feel about that?

[ramama]

It kind of annoys me that classmates are referred to as "friends."  I can't really explain why.  I mean, not all kids have to be friends, right?  As long as they are respectful of each other, why does it matter if they are "friends" or not?  It seems like this philosophy pushes kids together who are not compatible and takes away a child's autonomy in choosing friends, choosing who he or she doesn't want to associate with.  What does it mean when a constantly disruptive child is called a "friend"?  Does that devalue the importance of true friends?  Do children still learn what it means to be a good friend to someone, or how a real friend treats his/her actual friends?  For instance, my DD gets "table points" when the kids at a table are quiet when they are supposed to be, on-task, attentive, and clean up after themselves.  One uncooperative "friend" can ruin it for all the other "friends."  I would not define this child as a "friend" if he is constantly spoiling things for the other kids at his table.  He doesn't have to be ostracized, or treated cruelly, or be termed an enemy or something, but I think that my child should realize that real friends don't do that.  Thoughts?

[CarrieMF]

IMO it isn't a big deal.  It does not stop kids from chosing who their real friends are.   As your dd gets into the higher grades this stuff ends, however they have also been taught how to work with people who may be disruptive & such because of it.  In the older grades they will end up doing more group projects where they have to work with people they may not play with for various reasons.

There are various definitions of friends & kids learn about them through their interactions with other kids.   You can always talk to your child about what makes a QUALITY friend & what doesn't.  By 8-9 though your child will be figuring this out on their own & it will be a continuous learning process throughout their lives.

Now if they are being told Susie you MUST play with Jenny even if she pushes you around then that is a problem.  But being put at a table with kids who may or may not be disruptive at times, not a big deal in the long run.   It is harder to run a classroom if you put all the kids who play together at one table & the trouble makers at another table.

[lindberg99]

My children's nursery school did that and it annoyed me too! I personally don't call someone my friend unless they are really a friend. I refer to people who I may see a lot and like but don't have a real relationship with as acquaintances. (Like some of the other moms who I see at school pickup, people at church, etc) That's probably why it bugged me. Is this your 5 yo or your 7 yo class? I have a feeling it will disappear as your children get older.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF 

IMO it isn't a big deal.  It does not stop kids from chosing who their real friends are.   As your dd gets into the higher grades this stuff ends, however they have also been taught how to work with people who may be disruptive & such because of it.  In the older grades they will end up doing more group projects where they have to work with people they may not play with for various reasons.

There are various definitions of friends & kids learn about them through their interactions with other kids.   You can always talk to your child about what makes a QUALITY friend & what doesn't.  By 8-9 though your child will be figuring this out on their own & it will be a continuous learning process throughout their lives.

Ditto above.

I think the word "friend" is used in lower Elem/preschool setting because it also alerts kids to treat each other like friends (even if they are not). It is more informal setting as well...I dont see teachers referring to other kids as: classmates, peers, members of our class, etc with little kids. Friend is used to help set a tone of community too. Little kids (preschool) often have off/on relationships, parallel play, and/or do not have the deep, complex social dynamics of kids 7+.

As kids get older, teachers do switch to the use of peers, classmates, etc due to the evolving nature of kids relationships. Little kids also tend to be more helpful and supportive of kids that struggle socially ( versus the mean name-calling, shunning of differences that older kids can do), calling them friend helps reinforce the innate open nature of young kids. It provided built in peer models.

And really, I have two 5 yr olds lor my own. and work with 36 3 to 5 yr olds.  Most kids do think of their peers as their 'friends' at this age--- some are better friends than others, but very very rarely are their kids that truly dislike each other enough to not play together or enjoy an activity together.

Working with little people, it is so easy to help build a class dynamic if it is a group mentality of 'friends' . We do stress that you can say 'no' to your friends if you do not want to play a game with them, build a sandcastle, push them on the swings, etc. But you do have to share the classroom toys with your friends (when you are done with it, or if you have two of the same thing). It is a hard concept--but amazingly kids tend to sort it all out fairly quickly. Never- would we force kids to play together.

But to- OP. Yes, even our grownup friends do things that get our friends in trouble, make mistakes, say things we wish we had not- should we as adults, no- but it happens. The way we handle it is important as well.Friends do hurt other friends feelings, sometimes intentionally in anger or accidently. It is not something a person usually intends to do- but emotions are real and funny at times. Kids should know that they should treasure their friendships and treat them well, but if there is a misunderstanding or anything like that- they need to know how to handle that as well (how to apologize, how to treat people so they want to stay your friend, etc).

A classmate at a table at school could be constantly disruptive for whatever reasons (in attention, boredom, etc) and still be a friends with other students on the playground or at lunch. Adult friendships are not without flaw, kids should not think that either. Nor is friendship need to be exclusive to a certain setting or time frame. It is important for kids to see that modeled as adults too.

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by KCMichigan 

And really, I have two 5 yr olds lor my own. and work with 36 3 to 5 yr olds.  Most kids do think of their peers as their 'friends' at this age--- some are better friends than others, but very very rarely are their kids that truly dislike each other enough to not play together or enjoy an activity together.

This seems to be true to me as well.  For most kids, "friend" just means someone you play with and even kind of know.  You can have a new "friend" within 5 minutes at a park.  Both of my kids started drawing a difference fairly early on between "real friends" and people you know.  I have always said (about elementary school) that you need to be friendLY to everyone, but sometimes you don't have to be friends.  We do a lot of talking with our kids, though, and both DP & I are people who use the term "friend" sparingly and with meaning.  That said, my BIL has a much more open idea of "friend" so it is not exclusively a kid thing. 

Okay, took a time out and asked DS (9) how he would refer to someone in his class, like if he was saying something they said.  He said, specifically, if it was a friend he would say, "one time MY FRIEND ____ whatever" or "one time, _____, this girl in my class whatever." 

We've also talked about how some friends are basically family that you choose (Auntie Kath, our best family friends, the people who would be he guardians if DP & I died) and others can be really good friends you have over to your house and some friends you just see at school and some blah, blah, blah, lol.  Kids do put it together!

[SubliminalDarkness]

Heck, I do it. When we're at the playground and it's time to go I say, "Say bye to your friend and thank them for playing with you." My kid just met the other kid, they only played for a short time, but why not think of them as friends? I don't see any harm. 

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by SubliminalDarkness 

Heck, I do it. When we're at the playground and it's time to go I say, "Say bye to your friend and thank them for playing with you." My kid just met the other kid, they only played for a short time, but why not think of them as friends? I don't see any harm. 

I generally did that as well.  When the kids got older and started having a division *in their minds* of what it meant to be a "friend" then that fell away (of course, so did randomly meeting people and playing with them, lol). 

[Subhuti]

I want to regard all beings as friends.*

So, no, I don't have a problem that my girls' pre-school had the kids refer to classmates as "friends."  Instead, I was like, " bravo."

* I am not there yet.  But I am working hard at it.  I did a love and compassion meditation with Dick Cheney as my object.   Later that night I had a dream where I was making out with him!!  I woke up in the morning and said to myself, "Damn, that thing works!  Kissing Dick Cheney!"

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by TiredX2 

This seems to be true to me as well.  For most kids, "friend" just means someone you play with and even kind of know.  You can have a new "friend" within 5 minutes at a park.

Yep. And at 2.5 they can be friends even faster. We were at a hotel and dd dropped something and a 6/7 year old picked it up for her. Total time anywhere near the other kid was about 15 seconds. DD comes running to me "Mommy Mommy Mommy, my friend picked it up for me! Can we play with my friend???"

And she was really sad when I explained that 1. the girl had to go do something else, and 2. she'd already left to go do something else.

I, on the other hand, have problems calling people friends even when they really are, I even remember being that way in 3rd grade. Not from anyone criticizing me calling people friends, but from a fear of presuming a relationship that the other party didn't think we had.  This kept me from treating people like friends such as I wouldn't invite people to do things, and that hurt my social development.

It was better in high school and college, and then got worse post-college when I didn't have a large pool of people with common interests.

[madskye]

DD is in kindergarten this year.  I think starting the 24 kids in the class out with the framework that they are friends is part of teaching them to respect each other.  DD's teacher annoys me sometimes, and I personally don't like the cloying kindy stuff, but I have to say, as we close in on the end of the year--the woman is crazy like a fox.  She has good reasons for what she does in the classroom and has had very nice results with DD this year.

[One_Girl]

My dd is in second grade and her teacher expects that everyone will treat each other as friends.  They don't have to be close friends who play with each other, but they are expected to treat each other with the respect and dignity friends are treated with.  I think that is different than the respect we give people who are just part of society because they will be together for years not just a few minutes at the grocery store.  I agree with the poster who said that calling everyone friends is a good verbal reminder also.  The way kid things are handled at her school and the expectations that all people will be treated with respect is so different from the way I remember school being for me, but I think that is a good thing.  I think educators have come a long way from the kids will be kids or punish the one who seems to be making the most trouble mentality and are now moving towards teaching all kids how to get along in a group and why that is important.   

[sapphire_chan]

To go back to the OP,

It would annoy me if the teacher used "friend" sarcastically. "Because you four are 'friends' and your 'friend' was noisy...." But if it's used to socialize the kid who is having troubles, it's not a problem*. "Disruptive Kid, remember that your friends at your table need you to do xyz so you can get points."

*setting aside the whole issue of a reward and demerit system, and the inherent flaws of public criticism, etc, etc.

Telling your dd that real friends don't mess other people up is basically telling her not to be friends with that kid. Not to talk to him, not to play hopscotch with him, not to invite him to anything, etc etc. And ditto for any other kid who does anything wrong.

A better message would be "friends help each other". If Messy kid just sits there and doesn't clean up, maybe your dd and the other kids can give each person a job "I'll put the paper back, Messy Kid, could you pick up the crayons?"  It might help Noisy Kid, to have the visual reminder of seeing his classmates with a finger on their lips. *

*mind you the quiet in the classroom thing has me wondering if the teacher is one of those people who drones on and on and on and on about how everyone needs to be quiet. Had to wait through a teacher getting a roomful of kids quiet once and I was just about ready to start blathering to someone just to alleviate the mindnumbing boredom. And if the teacher would've just started the 3 minute announcement, it would've been fine.

[whatsnextmom]

Honestly, outside of preschool, I don't think I've ever heard a teacher, school administrator or my kids refer to other classmates as friends unless they are actually friends.

[karne]

I actually like it.  The kids were all "friends" in kindy, and it felt quite warm and nurturing--reminded me of the gentleness of Mr. Rodgers, lol.  I thought it went a long way toward creating a sense of community.  Why wouldn't the kids be friends within the context of their kindy classroom?

As for not considering the disruptive child to be a "friend" based upon behavior:  I think that's a very misguided way to think.  Kids are all over the place in the early years.  The disruptive kid at the snack table may be the crowd leader with great ideas on the playground.  Friends aren't perfect.

[mattemma04]

 I think they are seperate issues- friendship and discipline.

In my kids classes the teachers will punish EVERYONE for the misbehavior of a few. To me that is similar to what is done in the miltary.Punish everyone for the behavior of one,and the pressure put on that one by the others will get that person in line. Sad thing is it does not work well in my kids classes. My kids are so tired of being punished for the actions of others they say," What is the point of being good if we get in trouble when someone else is bad?"

I have talked to the teachers(gently) about this,but have told my kids that sadly they will have to tolerate it or leave the school. I don't see what the problem is for a teacher to punish children individually.

As for friends and classmates I have pointed out to my kids that the friends they have at school are *school friends*.They never see or get calls from school friends.

[jenP]

I think that for a teacher to call a child's classmates his/her friends really denies the child's feelings and is downright insulting. How would it feel for your teacher to insist that R- is your "friend," when R- is the one who constantly bullies you? I would want to stamp my feet and scream, "R- is NOT MY FRIEND! Why don't you listen to me???"

Honestly, I don't see what is wrong with calling classmates "classmates." It's what they are!! They may or may not also be friends, brothers, cousins, etc., but they are definitely classmates. Why not just call them such?

That said, I would certainly expect there to be standards for how classmates should treat one another: be kind, be respectful, cooperate, etc. Like PP said, you need to be friendLY, but you don't necessarily have to be friends. And certainly everyone needs to learn in life how to work together and get along with people they don't necessarily like all that much. I just don't see how having an authority figure constantly telling you that someone who is NOT your friend, IS, in fact, your friend is supposed to help you learn to get along with people in life.

It reminds me of the disrespect when a kid gets hurt and cries, and someone else tells them, "That didn't hurt!" How can anyone besides yourself know if something hurt you? And how can anyone besides yourself tell you who is or is not your friend?

On the other hand, I do think it is sweet and nice when the teacher refers to the class as a whole as his/her OWN friends. As in, "Okay, friends, it's time to clean up our paintbrushes now" or, "My friend Gina has brought in a book to share with the rest of you today" or, "I'm so glad I get to spend my days with my special friends here in class."

[seawitch]

I don't have a problem with it.  In fact, I kind of like it.  It makes kids feel like they're part of a group.  If everyone is a friend, then it's not an issue of who has lots of and who has few friends.  (I was one of the latter group as a kid, if that's a disclosure that's needed.)

My daughter also spontaneously started including "her friends" in her bedtime prayers without any prompting. (She's 3.)  And she always says "hi friends!" when she enters her classroom and "bye friends!" when she leaves.  I don't think at this age she's really affected by who her friends are - just knows that she's in a friendly environment.  It's a drop in preschool so every day some of the kids are regulars and others are there for one day once in a blue moon.  I think it's good that they don't get attached to any one kid and instead view all of the kids as potential friends.

I don't think this would work for the older school years where kids definitely do have others they get along well with or poorly with - but I still don't think the basic premise is a bad one.  If the basic seed planted in kids' heads is that classmates = friends, I think there might be better community spirit than if it was "these are just random people but a special few are friends and the others aren't".

[MomtoDandJ]

Does your child's school insist on using that term? I think at home you could explain how friends are supportive of each other, etc., and that would help your child understand what a "real friend" is as opposed to a classmate.

[Rose-Roget]

I've been bugged by that term since ds was a toddler in daycare and he would come home with notes saying, "J. was bitten by a friend today."  Uh, no he wasn't - he was bitten by another child in the room; friends don't bite each other.  Now that he's in first grade, I feel like it's especially contrived. 

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Rose-Roget 

I've been bugged by that term since ds was a toddler in daycare and he would come home with notes saying, "J. was bitten by a friend today."  Uh, no he wasn't - he was bitten by another child in the room; friends don't bite each other. 

Toddler friends? Yes they do.

Obviously non-friends could bite too, but it is 100% possible for toddlers to be playing along happy as toddler clams, and the get into a tiff and chomp, or even just decide "hey, I wonder what happens if??"

The lesson to teach isn't that friends don't bite each other, but other kids do, it's that we don't bite people. Full stop. 

Obviously, I supervise, but I could totally see my dd suddenly biting the same friend that she hugs ten times a visit. There's been no sign of such a thing, but there usually isn't.