Discouraged -- need some support.

[megannt]

I have been a silent stalker on this forum for a long time and this is my first post. I have an eight month old daugher and am, for lack of a better term, an AP mama, though I try and avoid the AP title just because it means something different to everyone. Whatever I am, it is very different from most parents around me.

In the last month, my daughter has taken to waking up very frequently through out the night, every hour and a half, and sometimes more often. I am obviously exhausted, but do not feel like I am doing something wrong when I go in a nurse her back to sleep and rock her back to sleep. I am working hard for that secure attachment, but it doesn't mean that it's not difficult on me sometimes.

The last couple of weeks I have felt very overwhelmed with meeting the needs of my baby. I am getting by, but really need some mamas to talk to and encourage me. The mamas that I have around me, like my sister in law, are really discouraging me. I didn't realize what a big impact they were having on me until today. My sister in law had basically talked me into night weaning and I was set on it. I mean no malice against her, she doesn't share my same views on child rearing. So I had night weaning stuck in my head and started to feel guilty/wrong in the fact that I nurse my baby so much. I feel like anytime I talk to a mama that doesn't agree with my methods, they only want to tell me that I am only getting what I deserve and that if I did the things the right way, then I wouldn't be so tired/frustrated/overwhelmed. They have a hard time emphathizing with me and only make me feel guilty/unsure of what I am doing.

So I suppose I need some support from like minded mamas. I need to feel like what I am doing is the right thing. I am SO TIRED of the mamas that I talk to telling me that the solution to my problems is weaning and CIO. I am tired of feeling that I am alone in my method of parenting. I am tired the mamas I talk to trying to 'fix' my problems instead of supporting my choices.

Thank you for listening to my frustrations, I feel better already.

[wishin'&hopin']

Hey there, just so you know...we had a MAJOR 8 month sleep regression and when we posted about it found out that 8 months is a REALLY rough time for sleep (developmental stuff/teething)  Once our guy figured out crawling it got LOADS better.  We went from every 1-2 hours waking up at 8 months to 1-2 times a night total (he's 11 months now).  

We did keep him in bed with us at the time (he's in his crib now and I go in to nurse) so that I didn't have to get up to nurse him.  At about 10 months we started encouraging longer sleep stretches by having the non-nursing mommy go to him if he woke up.  But, if he REALLY needed nursies she'd get me.

Good luck!  And, hang in there with what you think is right for your family!

[megannt]

Thank you for the quick reply. I am so happy to hear that you had lots of wake ups during the eight month time. Sometimes I think she fights sleep just because everything around her is so interesting and she just wants to play. I'm sure her brain is exploding with new developments -- she comes up with something new every day - just today she learned how to wave good bye and she was giving kisses for the first time.

And 11 straight hours sounds absolutely heavenly! Hoping that is right around the corner like it was for you.

[Sherilyns]

My daughter is only 6 months, but I know what you mean about needing support and questioning yourself. My lo wakes 4 or 5 times a night still. I had intended to have her in an arm's reach co-sleeper for about 6 months and then transition her to a crib. Well, she never liked to sleep in the co-sleeper and only would if I put her down sound asleep, so we ended up side-carring the crib hoping that she would sleep there, but nope, she will only sleep through the night if she is cuddled up right next to me bfing. At times I feel like a human pacifier and I doubt myself and think I should have sleep trained earlier, but mostly I enjoy our nights together and am glad that she feels safe with me. I constantly check back here or other AP style books or blogs for moral support and just to remind myself what we are doing is right for us and is NOT hurting her.

While she is going through this sleep regression, have you thought about co-sleeping? This way you can get some sleep yourself. I am sorry you have people in your life who are discouraging. Sometimes I think it is best to keep some things to yourself. Just smile and say that your lo sleeps well and no one has to be the wiser. Have you looked in your area for a mother's group that shares your views? It took some searching, but I found a holistic mothers group in my area. You can always start your own if you have the energy. Check meetup.com or find your tribe on these forums.

Hang in there!

[1stTimeMama4-4-10]

Sigh.  I'm so sorry you are going through that mama - I am VERY familiar with it. We too are doing our version of AP - to us, it means never letting DD cry if we can help it, keeping her physically close to us at all times, and immediately responding to her needs.   We too went through a VERY bad time around 8 months. Bad enough that it began to seriously affect our marriage and we even started questioning our parenting style.

And then it got better. Then it got bad again, and now it's better again.  During the really bad times, I made the mistake of being honest when friends and colleagues asked how DD was sleeping.  I said she was sleeping poorly and we were exhausted.  Everyone basically said that it was my fault since we co-sleep and I nurse DD all night long.  What's funny is that one friend has a daughter only weeks older than mine, and though she had done CIO at around 3 months (the thing that I was being chastised for not doing) - her daughter was going through the EXACT SAME THING!  What was worse was that my friend had to do CIO all over again every few days because her daughter wasn't sleeping and they had no idea what to do except let her just bawl her sweet baby head off all alone in the dark. Heartbreaking. Even my mom suggested that it is time to get DD used to sleeping in her crib - and she was a super AP mom too!

What I learned is that I don't talk about anything related to our unusual parenting decisions if it could be construed as negative. I don't talk about how I hope I made the right decision not to vaccinate with people who would be appalled to know that we haven't vaccinated yet.  I don't talk to people who use CIO about how DD still wakes to nurse 4 times a night. I don't talk to people who never carry their babies about how DD needs to be held all day long.  It's a bummer to have fewer people to talk to, but it definitely makes me appreciate the few friends I have who are using the same parenting style. It makes me more appreciative of the true community I feel with MDC mamas.  It makes me sad that there are so many people out there who are convinced that they are doing the right thing, when I cannot imagine subjecting my daughter to such cruel heartless treatment.

All that is to say that I understand where you are coming from, but try not to doubt your mama instincts.  Attachment parenting is sometimes more difficult, but I truly believe that it is infinitely more rewarding.  Good luck mama. 

[mamadiamond]

every time my daughter hits a growth spurt or milestone she goes back to waking up every hour-two hours at night for a while. she just finally mastered crawling and is starting to sleep 3-4 hours at a time again, and it's so good. i understand your frustration and tiredness. i co-sleep but it is still challenging when dd is up all night long. hang in there. my dd only woke up twice last night, after waking up every 2 hours at least for the past 2 weeks. i'm hoping we get lots of nights like this before the next growth or next tooth. eventually they will sleep through the night on their own, so just push through and try to take good care of yourself while being short on sleep. when our babies become well-adjusted and communicative children and teens we will see the rewards of all the attachment now. when you are up all night with your baby you are teaching her that she can trust you and depend on you no matter what, and that is a priceless lesson for her to learn. don't get discouraged...someday you will sleep again.

[megannt]

Oh how I wish I could have you wonderful ladies over for lunch whenever I am feeling down. This is exactly what I needed, some good ol' love and support.

Yes, we co-sleep, but only part time. We have baby in her crib until we go to bed, and then I bring her into bed when she wakes up after that. The only downside to co-sleeping right now is that our full sized bed doesn't fit all of us and so my husband has to sleep elsewhere. We are in the process of getting a king bed, but boy is it $$.

Yes, I think I just need to stop talking to others about it. The big bummer is that the one friend I have that thinks the same as me has a GREAT sleeper :) So she doesn't quite understand how difficult sleepless nights can be. I would love to find a group - I checked meetup.com but no such luck. I would go to a LLL meeting, but they are just too far away. I will check the tribe forum.

It is very aggravating that the CIO mamas don't get any flack, even when their babies are waking up often. I try not to talk down about CIO because I want to show them the same courtesy that I hope they show me by not putting down my parenting styles, but I draw the line when they suggest it (over and over) to me. It's down right frustrating.

Thank you for reminding me of the big picture -- I want so badly to have a good emotional connection with my kiddos as they get older. Thank you for reminding me that I am doing that every night. Sometimes I just get too caught up in the day to day. And you forget that babies grow and I'm sure soon I will be well rested, but missing this crazy season of life.

And here's to hoping that she will start sleeping just a little longer. I don't even want full nights, just a couple more hours between waking!

Thank you ladies a million times over.

[zenmumajen]

Hi Megan! My son was born a day after your daughter! If it makes you feel any better- he is going through the same thing right now. I would say that about 75% of the time he is waking up every 1 1/2 to 2 hours. The other nights it will be 3 if we are lucky. I have also noticed that he seems to sleep longer when it's dark out but as soon as the sun starts rising he is waking up every hour it seems...

Also- he is having a hard time falling asleep for naps! I feel the same way as you in the fact that not only are they going through so much at this age but it seems like he doesn't want to miss out on anything. I worry that he isn't getting enough sleep and that is going to slow his development down! Also- leo isn't crawling yet if that makes a difference. Maybe once our LOs are mobile it will get better like the other posts said...

I don't tell anybody about his sleep though it does come up in conversation. I say "no he isn't sleeping through the night but it doesn't matter to me". It's kind of a lie because in a perfect world of course i would love it if he would STTN but I know this stage isn't going to last forever. I love co sleeping too- I asked DF the other day if Leo will still want to cuddle when he is a teenager lol....I will miss it then I am sure. 

Hang in there mama- and I hope you find some friends that are more supportive! I don't have any either =(

[elisheva]

Just to gently put this out there...if it's teething, perhaps using an OTC pain reliever or homeopathic remedy might help you get some sleep when you're at your wits end. My kids would be in agony for a few days at a time even when there weren't any teeth visibly coming in - chewing on hands, always wanting to nurse...we try to avoid advil, etc as much as possible but sometimes you just gotta do it so that they and you can get some sleep. Might be worth a try even if you're not sure if it's teething. 

One more thing I'm not sure pps have mentioned (but I could've missed it...at 6-8 months they are WAY more distractable while nursing during the day so they try to double up at night when they have nothing else to do/look at. Maybe setting aside some quiet time in a quiet place for nursing during the day might help meet that need so that you both might get a little more rest at night? 

Hang in there. It *does* get better.

[1stTimeMama4-4-10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elisheva 

Just to gently put this out there...if it's teething, perhaps using an OTC pain reliever or homeopathic remedy might help you get some sleep when you're at your wits end. My kids would be in agony for a few days at a time even when there weren't any teeth visibly coming in - chewing on hands, always wanting to nurse...we try to avoid advil, etc as much as possible but sometimes you just gotta do it so that they and you can get some sleep. Might be worth a try even if you're not sure if it's teething. 

One more thing I'm not sure pps have mentioned (but I could've missed it...at 6-8 months they are WAY more distractable while nursing during the day so they try to double up at night when they have nothing else to do/look at. Maybe setting aside some quiet time in a quiet place for nursing during the day might help meet that need so that you both might get a little more rest at night? 

Hang in there. It *does* get better.

These are both excellent suggestions.  We avoid pain relievers unless it's one of those REALLY bad nights. Those of you who have been there know the kind I'm talking about.  Fortunately those nights usually only come along every few weeks or more, and last no more than 3 days in a row.  If it helps us all sleep, I am fine with baby ibuprofin. (sp)  And DD reverse cycles because I work all day, so for us, part of the nighttime nursing is just her getting milk when it's available.  I plan to nightwean last for that reason, and would not consider nightweaning until I know that we are both ready emotionally and physically to do so. And yes, it does get better.

[megannt]

I gave my little some ibuprofen tonight and she is sleeping much better. we don't like giving meds at night either. she is actually cutting four top teeth right now, but i had given her ibuprofen earlier and it made absolutely no difference, so I wasn't sure if they were really bothering her that much. It's hard to tell what it really is one night to the next. Today was the first time had shown signs of teething during the day, so I gave it to her and she slept three wonderful hours! I need to look up so some homeopathic remedies because I really don't like giving OTC meds so often.

zenmumajen, unfortunately my little is already crawling. but she has been showing signs of walking lately, so she might be restless because of that. I know I also read that once they can sit up or pull themselves up to standing (which my daughter can do) they can get "stuck" because they know how to stand up, but don't know how to lay back down. These are the kinds of things I would have never thought about!  I'm also sorry you don't have any friends that understand -- it makes it harder. Thank goodness for MDC!

[Knitting Mama]

I believe in not giving medication unless it's truly warranted, but when it comes down to it, if my girl is in enough pain that her normal demeanor and routines are disrupted by it for more than one day/night, then I feel like I absolutely should give it to her. I can't stand to see her in pain.

[Ginger Bean]

It is very aggravating that the CIO mamas don't get any flack, even when their babies are waking up often. I try not to talk down about CIO because I want to show them the same courtesy that I hope they show me by not putting down my parenting styles, but I draw the line when they suggest it (over and over) to me. It's down right frustrating.

Instead of avoiding the subject, act really interested and ask them A LOT of questions.

"Oh really? CIO? How does it work? Is that what you do? So how long do you let her cry? 60 minutes! Wow! How did that make you feel? What did you do when she was crying? Did you wear earplugs or take a shower or something? It must get loud! Did you feel like crying yourself? It must be hard listening to her cry. How does your husband/partner feel about it? Is s/he totally onboard? Does s/he ever go in there and soothe her? So what happens the next night? Does she cry 60 minutes again? And the third night and fourth night? So she sleeps through the night now? You mean, you never get up? Not even to replace her pacifier? She sleeps 12 hours without stirring at all? Really? Wow, you're so lucky! What happens when you travel or have a break in your routine? Do you have re-train? How does that make you feel, making her cry again? How long does re-training take? How long does she cry this time?"

I guarantee you they will stop bringing it up.

[jcregan]

I could have written that exact post with DD many years ago!!

It took me a lot of soul searching (and coming to Mothering.com) to finally trust MYSELF in what we were doing.  I did not stop talking to people totally about our sleep habits etc. but I stopped asking for advice from some people and if they asked I would tell the truth with confidence... how she did not sleep through the night, slept with me, nursed often and how it turned out to be the best situation for both of us and allowed us the most sleep etc.

Before that i tried letting her cry once for 10-15  mintues... it was all out screaming and horrible and she did not come close to falling asleep when I got her.  I was not able to sleep at allthat night.  That is really when I knew that path was off the table!.

I nightweaned her at 2 and a half, she moved to her own bed in our room at that time and at 3 was in her own room.  About 3.5 we stopped staying with her until she fell asleep.  She really sleeps great  most nights (barring nightmares etc.).  I don't regret the path we took at all!  She was very shy and wary as a toddler but blossomed out of her shell suddenly at one point - shocked our family etc.  I think if we had not been meeting her emotional needs this would not have happened as early.

[McGucks]

OP, I am right there with you.  Our LO is a year and still gets up as much as yours.  As I recall, 8 months was super bad, even worse than now.  And, like you, I chose (and continue to choose) to keep him in bed with us, nurse whenever he wants, and am really, really tired a lot.  I learned when he was maybe two or three months to intentionally mislead my MIL about his sleep because every single time we spoke, she asked whether he was STTN yet and I just got irritated giving her the details.  And, of course, she says that my DH and BIL slept thirteen hours a night.  So, I would tell her, "He's doing great at night."  And our ped?  Same questions, similar response.  After a couple nights of crazy bad sleep, DH asked about doing CIO for 15 minutes and I just couldn't.  I figure that this won't go on forever, I am a SAHM and can nap a bit from time to time, and it's really just all okay.  I just don't really share what goes on at night with much of anybody.  I am not interested in reading a bunch of sleep books just so I can feel like a failure if they don't work.  I tend towards self-doubt in all things and don't deal well with people telling me what I am doing wrong that makes him not sleep well, so I keep what's up to myself.  The sleep thing is, I think (for me anyway), the hardest thing about having a baby.  But, our children will one day STTN and grow and we will wish they woke at night just once so we could hold them.  Keep up the good work and ignore your SIL as best you can.  You know you are doing the right thing!  Hang in there and keep up the faith.

[ProtoLawyer]

Yup, we're here, too. (My son's a week younger than your daughter.) He's teething (his two bottom center teeth have broken through, but others are making their way) and working on crawling and getting himself to and from a seated position. Motrin has helped the teething; the topical gel was useless. (He just looked at me with that "what are you DOING to me, woman?" look.) Yesterday, after 8 a.m., he slept from 11 to 11:30 a.m., 3 to 4 p.m., 7 to 8 p.m., 10:30 p.m. to 1 a.m., 1:30 to 4 a.m., and then was up intermittently until 8, at which point he was sleeping peacefully with his dad, as I left for work. My husband has an election tomorrow (he's a challenger for an open seat--wish him luck!), so I'm not sleeping well as it is.

I second (third?) the advice to ignore the naysayers--my grandmother likes to talk about how my dad slept through the night at 2 days old. I usually answer "as expected" when asked how he's sleeping. Happily, I have a great doctor who gives sleep advice like, "I'm supposed to recommend he sleep by himself, in a crib, but yeah, whatever."

You're doing great! It's not easy, though. Hang in there!

[Emelee]

I would also like to offer support even though my DD just turned 4 months. She is waking frequently or tosses and turns keeping me awake. She'll want to nurse for about 2-3 mins then fall back asleep only to do the same thing 30 mins later. I'm very tired but know that I could not sleep away from her. My parents and the in-laws all say to let her cry because she can't possibly be hungry. It gets discouraging. Just yesterday my father (who I love dearly) said that babies can cry FOR AN HOUR. I responded with, "Yes of course they CAN cry for an hour but they shouldn't have to." I can't stand to hear her cry for more than a minute much less whatever it takes to wear her out enough to cry herself to sleep.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I hope you find support with some friends and that everyone here on MDC seems very helpful for these type of things.

[callahansmama]

I feel for you and can totally understand what you are going through!  On one hand I am confident that the choices I am making as a parent are the right ones, but I don't really have any friends who have breastfed (more than a month or two) or who believe in attachment parenting. I live in a remote northern community with no mothers or lll group and I am finding it a little difficult without support too. My partner is supportive but feels a little helpless as I am nursing and that is the primary comfort that our son prefers at night. 

A lot of my friends and family have been pushing formula since my son (10.5 months) was 2-3 months old (not judging formula feeders but for myself I don't believe in choosing it for the sole purpose of making my life easier or more convenient) and that doing so will keep him asleep and I have had overwhelming advice to let him cry. I literally cannot do it, I get sick just thinking about it. I am sick of people (namely my mother!) saying, "He's got to learn." Learn what for goodness sakes!!? I keep trying to tell them (her mostly) that he is "learning" nothing in a room by himself, crying himself to sleep, except that his parents aren't taking care of him when he needs it.

Some babies can be put in a crib and will happily lay there while you read a book or sing a song or pat their bum (I have heard tell of these mysterious and wonderous creatures, but have yet to actually meet one:) but my son will scream bloody murder and has always been that way. He needs me and as much as I am tired and stressed and envious sometimes of my friend's "freedom", I know that being there for my child has to be the best thing for him.

A lot of times I feel embarrassed to tell people how my son sleeps and the struggles I am having, like it makes me less of a mother in their eyes and that gets to me sometimes. It is sad that there is such a stigma still (or at least I find there is) against our style of parenting. I have to admit, that before I was a parent I never really thought about nursing past a year (which I plan to do) or co-sleeping (which I would love to do if my little meatball would lay still with me and not try to crawl off the bed) or how challenging it would be to meet all my child's emotional needs as well as the physical. I think that the world is too focused on convenience and nothing" disrupting" your life, even your children. My son is the happiest, most social, strong, healthy, determined and engaging child in the daytime and I try to focus on that when I am having a bad night. I know that this will pass and that he wouldn't cry (or scream, or buck like a wild horse:) if there weren't a reason and to take comfort in knowing that I have been there for him 24 hours a day.

I love this website, this forum and all the mamas here!

[megannt]

( I can't figure out how to write below the quote, so I'm writing above) but that quote seriously made me LOL! That is exactly how I feel with my little one. You read the books and hear the advice, you know, put them down drowsy and pat their backs to sleep. My daughter did not tolerate that, if anything, it woke her up all  over again and we had to start from square one putting her asleep.

Thank you to all you mamas. This is exactly what I needed. I love that I have found a safe place to vent and share frustrations. Our culture is just  a little strange with the idea that we want to help our babies be as independent as possible, as early as possible. There is so much pressure for that. Also, the stigma of AP parenting is that we are letting our babies 'manipulate' and 'walk all over us.'  That's the one that really bugs me.

When my baby was little, I was so confident and could easily ignore others. I was able to silence all those nay-saying voices in my head, and really listen to my mama heart. But, as I grow less confident, those voices start to creep back in. I think that is why it's so important to talk to others that support our own mama hearts. We need good voices of encouragement and positivity in our heads, not ones that make us doubt that our powerful mother's intuition.

I love the response, 'as expected', that is a good one that I will have to remember.

Yes, my little one is so happy, cheerful, curious in the daytime. i need to start focusing on that more often. She really is a dream to take care of in the daytime.

I was talking to my husband about all of this and I told him that often, before I had kids, I always made decisions that would increase my happiness and comfort. Now that I have a baby, often the best decision is the one that makes me the least comfortable! Such is true for the nighttime parenting. Thank you for reminding me that I am making the right decisions and that I'm not forever messing up my child.

Originally Posted by callahansmama 

Some babies can be put in a crib and will happily lay there while you read a book or sing a song or pat their bum (I have heard tell of these mysterious and wonderous creatures, but have yet to actually meet one:) but my son will scream bloody murder and has always been that way. He needs me and as much as I am tired and stressed and envious sometimes of my friend's "freedom", I know that being there for my child has to be the best thing for him.

[Knitting Mama]

I get that quoting issue a lot of times too, it's basically that the cursor doesn't exist. To fix it, on the left hand side in the toolbar when you're typing a reply, there is a button that says "source." It's how you toggle HTML. Click it once, and then again, and you should have your cursor back.