Looking looking.... found one! UC friendly HB MW

[mamatwoabunch]

Hello all, I will try to keep this short, I have been stalking the forum here reading and learning:) what a wonderful place. I love to hear your UC stories and now I need your advice, suggestions, support, in put.... please..

I know UC is in my heart what I would like. with my DD2 we had a hb mw, empowering from the hospital birth I had experienced with DD1. None the less I felt a little "hovered over" with the MW. I felt in my head " leave me alone" . I am half way or so thru my pregnancy now, and at a point in the road that is tugging me different directions. I wish to give birth quietly, peacefully and "alone" . My husband was a awesome assistant at DD2's HB and  great supporter, love him:) up till the point of the MW coming to the house last time , we were alone, in our bedroom, peacefully getting thru contractions,(I was ready to push shortly after the MW showed) laughing, loving ( nothing physical,). I LOVED THAT!!!! I look back and the feeling of "leave me be" comes to mind after the mw arrived? Is this normal????

This time around I hope to have that feeling  ( before the MW came) the entire time! just "us".....I wish to be intimate, kiss, love , or let me be whatever I need at the time....

My hubs is sort of on board with UC. he has said UC would be nice. he would like to catch the baby and the whole shebang... Ive been reading, educating ever since DD2 was born. making myself into a birth geek! I am learning more on "medical" aspect of birth trying to learn the workings thru reading midwifery books, videos, etc. I am not trying to make myself a "expert" just learning all I can. preparing.

The midwife issue, our midwife we used last time wishes not to continue care if we decide UC. not supporting it.bascially that friendship/services is done. I have feelings about that, I am not getting into on here. So we are deciding what we want to do. remember hubs wants a "backup" and is more "what if?" then I am. for him I agreed to interview some hb midwives. I am preparing my questions today! :) There is one hb widwife that is "the best" around here and we meet tomorrow.  I want to see how she feels about a intimate, hands off sit back and watch type birth. If she rather be all over me, Ill be back to square one. In that case I rather continue  to my UC. BTW we are 6 minutes from a hossy... just in case of emergency.

I know it has to be  one or the other. no problem , my vote.... by myself. but I want hubs to be okay with it too... honestly, totally, etc. we plan on getting a US soon to take a peek for the possibility of any issues... not sure what its worth though. Anyhow I hope I didnt leave anything out. I just would like to hear from you all , UCers and non, wanna bes like me! :) thank you

~Peace and Love

[dayiscoming2006]

I think it'd be really hard to find a real hands-off midwife and even if they say they will be, when the time comes, they may not be.

If you live that close to a hospital - that could be your back-up for hubby. If something goes very wrong, you go there. Those are my thoughts anyway.

[mamatwoabunch]

Thank you Day, I have been dumped by my previous mw once she found out that I was even interested in UC before even making a choice for sure. So I think I will censor my questions and go from there as far as for the midwife sice I see the potential problem as a whole. I know want in my heart.

[ElizabethE]

See some answers, in color!!!

Originally Posted by mamatwoabunch 

Hello all, I will try to keep this short, I have been stalking the forum here reading and learning:) what a wonderful place. I love to hear your UC stories and now I need your advice, suggestions, support, in put.... please..

I know UC is in my heart what I would like. with my DD2 we had a hb mw, empowering from the hospital birth I had experienced with DD1. None the less I felt a little "hovered over" with the MW. I felt in my head " leave me alone" . I am half way or so thru my pregnancy now, and at a point in the road that is tugging me different directions. I wish to give birth quietly, peacefully and "alone" . My husband was a awesome assistant at DD2's HB and  great supporter, love him:) up till the point of the MW coming to the house last time , we were alone, in our bedroom, peacefully getting thru contractions,(I was ready to push shortly after the MW showed) laughing, loving ( nothing physical,). I LOVED THAT!!!! I look back and the feeling of "leave me be" comes to mind after the mw arrived? Is this normal???? Um, YEAH!!! I can't really express this enough. A resounding yes, yes, and absolutely yes. It's what animals do, it's what humans will do if left alone... it's all about our physiology. We try to bring intellect into it, but that only gets us so far. Our bodies take over. Honor what it's telling you! Honor what you know inside you.

This time around I hope to have that feeling  ( before the MW came) the entire time! just "us".....I wish to be intimate, kiss, love , or let me be whatever I need at the time....

My hubs is sort of on board with UC. he has said UC would be nice. he would like to catch the baby and the whole shebang... Ive been reading, educating ever since DD2 was born. making myself into a birth geek! Thumbs up. I'm like that every pregnancy. I just keep learning from new angles, thankfully. Keep it up, mama. Knowledge is power. I am learning more on "medical" aspect of birth trying to learn the workings thru reading midwifery books, videos, etc. I am not trying to make myself a "expert" just learning all I can. preparing. Please read some Dick-Read or Odent, or if you want more of a present day friendly mama voice, try The Power of Pleasurable Childbirth (Morgan) or Griesemer's book on unassisted birth. Please. It will really help even everything out for you. The technical stuff is the tip of the iceberg. You need some moral support.

The midwife issue, our midwife we used last time wishes not to continue care if we decide UC. not supporting it.bascially that friendship/services is done. Precisely what happened to me.  I have feelings about that, I am not getting into on here. LOL. I feel you. I let me feelings out here on that, once. So we are deciding what we want to do. remember hubs wants a "backup" and is more "what if?" then I am. for him I agreed to interview some hb midwives. I am preparing my questions today! :) There is one hb widwife that is "the best" around here and we meet tomorrow.  I want to see how she feels about a intimate, hands off sit back and watch type birth.My problem with that is the interview reality is very different from the labor reality. I found that out the hard way on #2. What they say and what you get are two different things. It doesn't matter how nice they are, how much you like or trust them... it's a roll of the dice and you have to decide if its worth that to you-- your birth, your potential pain or trauma or disappointment. For me, it wrecked me. It's so much safer and better for me to go it alone, honestly. I personally feel that's true for almost everyone just because of what we are like biologically in labor, but that's my personal belief. If she rather be all over me, Ill be back to square one. In that case I rather continue  to my UC. BTW we are 6 minutes from a hossy... just in case of emergency. Sounds good...

I know it has to be  one or the other. no problem , my vote.... by myself. Me too! but I want hubs to be okay with it too... honestly, totally, etc. we plan on getting a US soon to take a peek for the possibility of any issues... not sure what its worth though. I'm personally for ultrasound because I like to know if there might be something going on to be prepared for or watch out for, but I know a lot of UC moms have some beliefs on that, which I respect. My thought on that for myself personally is that if there is something that I can prevent or protect, or god forbid some reason I need to be in the hospital, I'd like to consider these things. I'm a little paranoid and just imagine that I would be devastated if I "missed" something. JMHO.  Anyhow I hope I didnt leave anything out. I just would like to hear from you all , UCers and non <-- Don't go there! LOL. That's a can of worms you're opening, right there! You WILL be had, girl. , wanna bes like me! :) thank you

~Peace and Love

Peace and love back at ya! God, give you the strength to trust in yourself before you believe in anybody else. God, give you the strength to see clearly and recognize people for what and who they really are, and to know where their words are actually coming from when they speak to you.

There's a lot of disillusionment out there. Don't catch any of it.

*edited, thank you Dr. Freud.

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by dayiscoming2006 

I think it'd be really hard to find a real hands-off midwife and even if they say they will be, when the time comes, they may not be.

If you live that close to a hospital - that could be your back-up for hubby. If something goes very wrong, you go there. Those are my thoughts anyway.

At first sentence-- that's right. That's my experience, and so many others' as well.

At second-- absolutely right. You don't need an in between. It's either an emergency or it's not. The hospital is there if you truly need it, and anything else could be totally all you! Perfectly put, Day. :)

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by mamatwoabunch 

Thank you Day, I have been dumped by my previous mw once she found out that I was even interested in UC before even making a choice for sure. So I think I will censor my questions and go from there as far as for the midwife sice I see the potential problem as a whole. I know want in my heart.

Well with me, I didn't tell her I was interested in UC, I told her that I wanted to do it. I had already decided and was sure. I am amazed that your mere interest caused you to be outcast. :( For me, I was kind of hoping that she would carry on treating me for prenatal, and come see us postpartum and handle all that business. I just wanted labor and delivery to be mine.

They basically said they couldn't see the point of it, and the tone was pretty much that they had other clients to take care of who truly needed or wanted their help. I have MY feelings about this, too. It's kind of like nothing else mattered, if they couldn't have the labor and delivery part of it.

I recently had something dawn on me, which may or may not be true-- that most of the money made from this whole process takes place AT the delivery. The prenatal visits and all that other time spent is peanuts next to it. Ah ha. I'm no longer worth it, methinks.

Being open and honest served me well in the end, and when I think about it, it usually does. Protect what you have to when you have to, but when it directly involves the participation of the other party, you may find that being upfront is better. But if not, I totally support withholding or oopses because self preservation always trumps honesty. IMHO. Listen to your heart.

[rsochi]

I went with a midwife (the best -- which means she was super busy) until she didn't show up for my 37 week home visit.  I had been flirting with the idea of UC the whole pregnancy, and after she didn't show up (or call for 2 days), hubby said screw it, and told me to order all the stuff to do it ourselves (mainly the pool).  We live a block from the hospital and have an EMT friend who has told us he is "on call" to come and give me an IV and do anything he can to help to keep me out of the local hospital and can transfer me to another hospital if needed.  I'm also a student midwife and have another student midwife who is willing to come up and just hang out as a supportive friend (she can mark it down as one of her attended births but without being a primary or secondary, so its a win win).

I basically needed my husband to say he was fine with it.  He's been great and its always whatever I wanted -- but I needed him to be completely comfortable and able to handle anything without calling 911 unless necessary.  Once he expressed his concerns, I made him a little folder on my laptop (so it doesn't get lost) of all the I.C.E. things for him and we're just waiting on baby.  I'm only at 39 weeks now :)  So its never too late to decide on a UC.

[sunshinemoma]

moma2abunch-how lucky to live six minutes away from hospital.  I totally get that feeling about wanting the birth attendent to just back off!  That's exactly how I felt the moment we stepped in hospital- even though I voiced all my concerns and wishes to my doc and he SAID he was totally on board for a hands off/natural birth, when it came right down to my babies birth, he definitely had plans of his own.  I had thought trusting a professional was the safest/best thing to do and I totally trusted him to follow through with his words and allow me a nondisturbed birth and I regret it all the time.  On the other hand I guess that disturbing, damaging birth experience really pushed me to learn as much as I can about my body and birth- I have spent the last 2 years obsessed with it :)  So ya, I'm excited for your journey!

ps. rsochi-  i'm so excited for you!  Hope everything goes as you wish!

[ElizabethE]

The regret Sunshine is talking about, with misplaced trust, that's a feeling that stays with you for a very long time. When you experience it you blame yourself for being so foolish and you promise yourself you'll never do that again. That's why so many of us are so protective of other moms-- we want to prevent you from having the same pains about it that we did. Like Sunshine said, learning has become our obsession. If you're on the fence about UC, we really want you to be able to trust yourself, because you DO have the power and the strength, and odds are that it's better YOU than someone else (in control). This kind of regret, you don't want.

[mamatwoabunch]

WE FOUND HER!!! a UC friendly MW!!!

I am so excited, she believes in being hands off, except in case of danger, death, etc. which Im cool with. she says brirthing on my own is fine, she wouldnt mind being called to our home after the baby is born to check me or baby. If she does come out and hang out, she doenst mind sitting outside or in a seperate room till we call on her. such peace of  mind. I am so happy to have been pointed her way. I guess Having a UC with a midwife, can technically happen. I mean the birth will hopefully still be unassisted... which is all I ask. My hubs is happy too. and that makes my more happy. I know my power to give birth, will I need her? maybe? maybe not. but she is my backup and willing to help. thats important.

[ElizabethE]

Lucky duck. Congrats. :) I hope it goes well.

[Midwife Scottie]

I would have to agree that truly hands off midwife is hard (if not impossible) to find. It is mostly liability issues. Laws vary from state to state but I know here in Tx I could lose my license if I don't do some basic things like check fetal heart tones and mamas BP. I always tell my clients who want a hands off birth what I have to do and what I don't. I don't have to catch the baby or be in the room the whole time with you but legally FHTs and vitals on mom have to happen. I have told mamas before to look into an unassisted birth if even that seems like too much intervention for them. It is so hard to walk that line as a midwife- wanting to give our clients the births they want in a society that is so afraid of birth! It is also hard for midwives to know what their clients want from them if it is not verbalized. Many moms don't know how much support they want until they are in labor and we know how hard it is to verbalize your wants in labor! I think this leads to many midwives hovering because they don't want the mama to feel abandoned! I can not stress enough the importance of educating yourself (which is why I love women who have unassisted births) and communicating openly with your midwife if you have one. Much love and good luck to you all!

[ElizabethE]

You sound like a great midwife.

As far as liability goes, let me ask you this question. How often are you required to check the woman? In the records you keep, how easy or hard for you would it be to put "could not be determined [at this time", or "client was in bathroom", etc.?

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by ElizabethE 

You sound like a great midwife.

As far as liability goes, let me ask you this question. How often are you required to check the woman? In the records you keep, how easy or hard for you would it be to put "could not be determined [at this time", or "client was in bathroom", etc.?

A midwife could do that, but it would be a really bad idea.  If something bad happened (mom or baby died), and the records consisted entirely of "patient in bathroom" and "could not be determined", investigators (and there will be some if a baby dies) will conclude that the midwife was not competent to do her job.  She would almost certainly lose her license, and there would probably be other consequences as well.

Falsifying, or not bothering to keep, medical records is also a violation of professional ethics.

[ElizabethE]

There ARE midwives who are willing to do things such as this. In their professional opinions, if they look at a situation and regard it to be not life or death (say, checking the blood pressure for the umpteenth time in the middle of a hard contraction, or if the baby is crowning or some equally ridiculous moment), they can fudge it if they really wanted to or felt comfortable in doing so. I know this. I'm not just saying this to be cute.

All I know is that if I can have a labor without checking fetal heart tones and that isn't illegal, why shouldn't a midwife be able to skip that also? Okay, so it might be against the law if she doesn't, but maybe those laws should be questioned. Are midwives willing to risk breaking the law for their clients to have the best birth for them? Most of them, no.

[labortrials]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElizabethE 

but maybe those laws should be questioned. Are midwives willing to risk breaking the law for their clients to have the best birth for them? Most of them, no.

Nope and for me this is a BIG STRIKE against supporting licensure campaigns.

[Midwife Scottie]

In terms of what I do if a mother doesn't want a vaginal exam- I chart that as "mother declines vaginal exam". This does not protect me completely if something bad was to happen but it goes as long way. and I am not lying or doing anything unethical. Plus if i feel that it is a emergency situation that requires a vaginal exam then most parents are OK with it. Vaginal exams are easier to avoid than vitals and FHTs. The main reason is that vitals and FHTs are the most important ways to check in on mom and baby. Vaginal exams do very little to ensure the safety of mom or baby. they are mostly there to make sure you are progressing at a normal pace (so they are easier to do away with). The midwife can also chart things about mother's behavior or other signs of labor progress and these are often accepted by the medical establishment.

I also agree that licensure is a double edged sword for this very reason. it is good in some ways because it makes sure that all midwives are educated to a certain degree and puts a mechanism in place for complaints if she does something wrong. The problem is that it also severely limits what your midwife can do and therefore your options at birth.

Midwives all the time struggle with bending/ breaking laws to give their clients the birth that they want. There are two reasons why a midwife hesitates to do these things. 1) is risking her license for one client worth putting her family and her other clients at risk of losing their midwife or income? and (we may not want to talk about this but in the name of full disclosure) 2) we never know how our clients will react if something goes wrong- even if we gave them full disclosure and they chose their path. I have heard stories (those scary birth stories to keep all good midwives in line) where the parents ask for something that is risky and then something bad happens and the midwife is the villain. I think this is probably rare but the fact that it happens at all is a reason for midwives to hesitate before agreeing to do something that is not accepted as a standard of care. So just keep this in mind when you ask your midwife for that vaginal breech or to stay home a little longer with poor FHTs. She is putting her livelihood on the line for you.

You ladies rock!

[onlyAngil]

Originally Posted by mamatwoabunch 

WE FOUND HER!!! a UC friendly MW!!!

I am so excited, she believes in being hands off, except in case of danger, death, etc. which Im cool with. she says brirthing on my own is fine, she wouldnt mind being called to our home after the baby is born to check me or baby. If she does come out and hang out, she doenst mind sitting outside or in a seperate room till we call on her. such peace of  mind. I am so happy to have been pointed her way. I guess Having a UC with a midwife, can technically happen. I mean the birth will hopefully still be unassisted... which is all I ask. My hubs is happy too. and that makes my more happy. I know my power to give birth, will I need her? maybe? maybe not. but she is my backup and willing to help. thats important.

I think it is great that you have been able to find someone to fit what you are looking for so well. We are kinda in the same boat. Currently we are looking into midwives, well, currently one. To be honest I am kind a just "playing along" to make my mate feel well (he is worried that he knows to little and more or less wants someone there for him, just in case), but worry that if this midwife dose not meet what we are looking for "yubber hands off," that we will be SOL and I will be putting him on the spot, but that is another post.... What questions did you end up asking to help you feel confidant she will leave you to your birthing?

Originally Posted by Midwife Scottie 

I would have to agree that truly hands off midwife is hard (if not impossible) to find. It is mostly liability issues. Laws vary from state to state but I know here in Tx I could lose my license if I don't do some basic things like check fetal heart tones and mamas BP. I always tell my clients who want a hands off birth what I have to do and what I don't. I don't have to catch the baby or be in the room the whole time with you but legally FHTs and vitals on mom have to happen. I have told mamas before to look into an unassisted birth if even that seems like too much intervention for them. It is so hard to walk that line as a midwife- wanting to give our clients the births they want in a society that is so afraid of birth! It is also hard for midwives to know what their clients want from them if it is not verbalized. Many moms don't know how much support they want until they are in labor and we know how hard it is to verbalize your wants in labor! I think this leads to many midwives hovering because they don't want the mama to feel abandoned! I can not stress enough the importance of educating yourself (which is why I love women who have unassisted births) and communicating openly with your midwife if you have one. Much love and good luck to you all!

I can understand what is being said here ^, kinda "par" for having a midwife :(.

According to this, http://www.state.nj.us/oag/ca/laws/midwifreg.pdf, "Managing labor and birth for women not classified as being at increased risk pursuant to NJ.A.C.13:35-2A. I I, in accordance with clinical guidelines" is what a midwife in my state would need to do... but no where dose it state what "clinical guidelines" are. Any ideas on how I could go about finding that out???
 

[ElizabethE]

Scottie, I love your input. You bring a real honesty and clarity that I greatly appreciate. Thanks for sharing with us.

[Anna Bella]

I'm in a similar situation - trying to decide whether to try to find a back-up midwife. For my first birth, I tried to do it completely alone. My partner supported my choice but he was scared, which didn't help at all on the day... his anxiety made me scared too. I ended up deciding to go to hospital after a very long labour at home. In hindsight, this was probably a mistake, and if I had had a midwife to call on, maybe I would have been able to avoid the hospital. Maybe a midwife would have reassured me all was well and normal ... or maybe she would have packed me off to the hospital anyway. All the same, I still don't really want a midwife and I don't know how to go about finding one who will support something so unconventional.