Pumping for WOH? PIS is dying?

[northerngirl]

Dd is now 13 months old and I WOH ~17 hours a week. I think I am still getting a decent amount when I pump the 2x in my 7 hour shift ~6-8 oz on a good day. However, when the week starts I'm usually down to not much maybe 3oz. My freezer stash is very low, like maybe 4oz. I am trying to keep a head and have milk available for her when I'm gone, and not just for work.

I try to nurse dd2 just from one side at night so I will have some to pump upon waking up. This has not been working very well for us. She demands to nurse both sides (tantrum almost) and I don't want to have her get so mad that she comes fully out of sleep.

This morning I thought that she had nursed on one side much less and then thought I could pump that side and get 2 oz, I would be happy with that. But all I got was a bottom full, not much at all. Could it be my pump is wearing out? It is a year old PIS. The valves have been changed. When I pump I have to have the knob turned almost all the way on high. Although this doesn't seem to make it pump any better.

I don't WANT to stop pumping for her, but this is getting ridiculous.

Any ideas? TIA

[Mosaic]

It could be that your LO is in a growth spurt and is taking up all your reserves right now. I think you're doing everything right, and I doubt your PIS is busted after a year, if it sounds and acts the same as always. Have you always turned the suction all the way up? Maybe try lower suction and a faster cycle speed to get the letdown going, and keep pumping through a second letdown if you can. If you feel you need more milk, maybe try adding an extra session beforing going to bed, etc.

[northerngirl]

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

It could be that your LO is in a growth spurt and is taking up all your reserves right now. I think you're doing everything right, and I doubt your PIS is busted after a year, if it sounds and acts the same as always. Have you always turned the suction all the way up? Maybe try lower suction and a faster cycle speed to get the letdown going, and keep pumping through a second letdown if you can. If you feel you need more milk, maybe try adding an extra session beforing going to bed, etc.

I have had the suction pretty much all the way up for a few months now, maybe longer. If I turn it up all the way it actually seems like there is less suction and is bogging? down? Also, if dd and I are together she is nursing when ever she wants and then if I tried to pump I'm pretty sure there would be nothing but a few drops.

I have never gotten a second letdown. How long after milk has stopped coming out will there be another letdown? I think I have pumped (dry) for maybe 10-15 minutes. I usually only pump for 10 min. max to get my 2oz per breast or until it stops.

And I use to be able (a while ago) to limit the nursing on one side and then easily get 4 oz or more in the morning.

[CheriK]

It could be that your supply is so closely in tune w/ your DD's needs that it's hard to pump any extra at this point.  I found this happened when I was nursing & pumping for my twins.  It helped for me to add in an extra pumping session at home every single day (even on weekends).  I'd nurse them in bed in the morning (they'd usually go back to sleep - lucky them), then shower, then pump.  I wouldn't get a lot of mik but over a week it would add up and help make up the extra they needed.  And by pumping every day at the same time, my body adapted to having more milk available at that time.  When supply was really an issue, I'd also add an extra session at work.  I'd clock out at the end of my shift, pump, then go home (about 20 mins away).  By the time I got home I had plenty of milk for them, plus had that extra pumping session's output for the freezer.  Some moms will also keep up their pumping schedule at home over the weekends.  You won't get much when you're nursing also, but you'll signal your body to up production and will hopefully start the week on a higher level.

As far as the pump, you can have the motor tested to make sure it's sucking properly.  The store where you purchased the pump might be able to test for you; most IBCLCs have the equipment as well.  It's unlikely that it has failed after part-time work for a year, but not impossible.  The other pump issue might be flange fit.  Your breast size changes over lactation and your size now with a nursing toddler may be smaller than when your DD was exclusively breastfed.  Do you notice that a lot of extra areola or breast tissue is pulled into the tube along with your nipple?

I wonder about hormone levels, as well.  Have you recently started menstruating?  Your milk supply can fluctuate with changing hormone levels.

Also, is your DD drinking more of your milk while you're gone?   My current nursing toddler mostly isn't interested in my milk when I'm at work, but when she decides she wants a bottle, she drinks a LOT.  It's more about comfort and sucking than about a real need for the nutrition.  You might ask your caregiver to focus on solids and offer a meal before offering your milk.  You really aren't gone that much so your DD would be fine with less of your milk.

I reached a point with my twins where I could not let down for the pump any more.  I'd only ever been able to get one letdown (sometimes not even that) and after about 2 years, my body simply wouldn't respond to the pump.  I found that I could hand-express much more easily and quickly than I could pump.  You might try some hand expression and see if it helps.  I wouldn't sit at the pump for a long time without producing - that's just going to make you crazy.  Take a break, do some breast massage, try again in 30 minutes or so and see if you can trigger another letdown.  Often mood and stress affect our ability to pump.

[Baby_Cakes]

I agree with the other posters, it most likely isn't your pump.  You could try increasing your fluid intake as well. I noticed a dip in my output around that time with DD, and just started drinking a ton more water.  Have your cycles returned?  That could be another culprit of the decrease.  I used More Milk Plus tincture now and then to help with my supply.  I never had trouble nursing enough, but when I *needed* 4 oz or whatever the deficit was, it helped me make more milk for that need!!

[northerngirl]

Originally Posted by CheriK 

It could be that your supply is so closely in tune w/ your DD's needs that it's hard to pump any extra at this point.  I found this happened when I was nursing & pumping for my twins.  It helped for me to add in an extra pumping session at home every single day (even on weekends).  I'd nurse them in bed in the morning (they'd usually go back to sleep - lucky them), then shower, then pump.  I wouldn't get a lot of mik but over a week it would add up and help make up the extra they needed.  And by pumping every day at the same time, my body adapted to having more milk available at that time.  When supply was really an issue, I'd also add an extra session at work.  I'd clock out at the end of my shift, pump, then go home (about 20 mins away).  By the time I got home I had plenty of milk for them, plus had that extra pumping session's output for the freezer.  Some moms will also keep up their pumping schedule at home over the weekends.  You won't get much when you're nursing also, but you'll signal your body to up production and will hopefully start the week on a higher level.

As far as the pump, you can have the motor tested to make sure it's sucking properly.  The store where you purchased the pump might be able to test for you; most IBCLCs have the equipment as well.  It's unlikely that it has failed after part-time work for a year, but not impossible.  The other pump issue might be flange fit.  Your breast size changes over lactation and your size now with a nursing toddler may be smaller than when your DD was exclusively breastfed.  Do you notice that a lot of extra areola or breast tissue is pulled into the tube along with your nipple?

I wonder about hormone levels, as well.  Have you recently started menstruating?  Your milk supply can fluctuate with changing hormone levels.

Also, is your DD drinking more of your milk while you're gone?   My current nursing toddler mostly isn't interested in my milk when I'm at work, but when she decides she wants a bottle, she drinks a LOT.  It's more about comfort and sucking than about a real need for the nutrition.  You might ask your caregiver to focus on solids and offer a meal before offering your milk.  You really aren't gone that much so your DD would be fine with less of your milk.

I reached a point with my twins where I could not let down for the pump any more.  I'd only ever been able to get one letdown (sometimes not even that) and after about 2 years, my body simply wouldn't respond to the pump.  I found that I could hand-express much more easily and quickly than I could pump.  You might try some hand expression and see if it helps.  I wouldn't sit at the pump for a long time without producing - that's just going to make you crazy.  Take a break, do some breast massage, try again in 30 minutes or so and see if you can trigger another letdown.  Often mood and stress affect our ability to pump.
 

Wow, thanks for your reply. I have noticed that when af is close my supply drops. Yep I got it back at uh 6 weeks pp? I thought (midwife too) that it was normal and NOT af. But monthy after that af arrived.

Dd will usually drink all the milk that I have from the previous work day, unless she takes a really long nap. She's pretty crazy about solids, but she still loves her milk. I guess that I could add another pumping session, but not sure that I want to? By June I will be working more and maybe up to 75%, I'm at 50% right now.

The way my job is in the summer would require me to pump in my car. I do field work for an environmental project. Last summer every time I pumped in the car I thought *this sucks*. Although my boss is ok with me taking those mama breaks.

I can't remember with dd1 when I stopped pumping at work with her. She nursed until 3yo (mainly at bedtime) and I'm hoping to repeat that with dd2.

How long do most people pump while away, what age? I have no idea.

I bought my pump at Target. I am interested in having it tested, hoping to find an ibclc in my area that can do it.

As for the flange fit, yes I am much smaller, I have not really looked that closely as to how much is pulled in, but will check. I do notice that I thought it had been making a weird noise around the flange area. How much should be in there?

[northerngirl]

Originally Posted by Baby_Cakes 

I agree with the other posters, it most likely isn't your pump.  You could try increasing your fluid intake as well. I noticed a dip in my output around that time with DD, and just started drinking a ton more water.  Have your cycles returned?  That could be another culprit of the decrease.  I used More Milk Plus tincture now and then to help with my supply.  I never had trouble nursing enough, but when I *needed* 4 oz or whatever the deficit was, it helped me make more milk for that need!!

I drink Mother's milk tea pretty much every day, but that's probably not as potent as a tincture. I will have to check that out thanks.

[CheriK]

As far as the flange fit, you nipple should move freely in the tube but you shouldn't notice a large amount of areola tissue being pulled in as well.  When I pump now, I have this happen & it's hard to keep suction (probably a major reason why I frequently can't let down for the pump, but I don't need to pump so I'm not going to go spend the $$ on new flanges).  A break in suction might be the noise you're hearing & will definitely affect the amount you can pump.  I think if you go to the Medela website they have videos and FAQs about fitting flanges.  If you find an IBCLC to test your pump, she should be able to help with flange fit as well.

With my twins, I stopped pumping regularly at work when they turned 2.  I could have stopped earlier as they were content without my milk (I only worked part-time & saw them at lunch if I worked a full day), but I would get too uncomfortable otherwise.  With DD2, I stopped earlier.  She still wants my milk sometimes (2 and a few months) but I had oversupply with her and still have a ton in the freezer.  I hate pumping so was happy to be done as soon as my child and my body would let me!

Drinking too much water actually can decrease milk production.  Your body focuses on moving fluids to your kidneys and decreases blood flow to the breasts.  Being mildly dehydrated is unlikely to impact supply.  If you're seriously dehydrated, you've got more important things to worry about than a small drop in supply!  Drink to thirst is the best rule to follow.  Your urine should be light yellow or clear, not darkly colored or really odorous. 

If you notice a supply drop around menstruation, you might try taking a Calcium/magnesium/zinc supplement.  This can help.  More info at http://www.kellymom.com/herbal/natural-treatments.html#calcium.  Sorry AF returned so soon - that's not fair!!

Are you avoiding cow's milk?  What about offering another milk or liquid to your DD instead of your milk, or in addition to it?  We introduced cow's milk to all our children at around a year.  DD1 won't drink the stuff, but will eat cereal sometimes.  DS would live on it if I would let him.  DD2 drinks more than her siblings did at 2, but I think that's b/c she wants to do what Big Brother is doing!  And the older two weaned at 5 1/2 and 6, so it clearly didn't speed weaning!

[Quinalla]

I would add a pumping session if you can, even if just temporarily or I would "power pump" for a few days. Works best if you can pump hands free and still work, I work in front of a computer, so it was easy for me. I would do a regular pumping session, then take everything off for 5 minutes, pump again for 5-10 minutes, off for 5 minutes, etc. for 30 minutes to an hour. This basically signals your body that you need more milk. I know a couple times during my pumping time I added a session for a week or did power pumping as my body tried to adjust down or when my DD was taking more milk at night. I used Fenugreek sometimes too, but for me more pumping gave me better results. Also, the other huge thing for me is getting enough sleep which is always hard. I went to bed right after my DD about half the weeknights for quite awhile when she was sleeping poorly or my supply and general sanity would suffer.

It doesn't hurt to get your pump checked out too, but it is just as likely to be your body adjusting or not enough sleep lately or something else. Good luck!

[anjsmama]

Originally Posted by CheriK 

It could be that your supply is so closely in tune w/ your DD's needs that it's hard to pump any extra at this point.  I found this happened when I was nursing & pumping for my twins.  It helped for me to add in an extra pumping session at home every single day (even on weekends).  I'd nurse them in bed in the morning (they'd usually go back to sleep - lucky them), then shower, then pump.  I wouldn't get a lot of mik but over a week it would add up and help make up the extra they needed.  And by pumping every day at the same time, my body adapted to having more milk available at that time.  When supply was really an issue, I'd also add an extra session at work.  I'd clock out at the end of my shift, pump, then go home (about 20 mins away).  By the time I got home I had plenty of milk for them, plus had that extra pumping session's output for the freezer.  Some moms will also keep up their pumping schedule at home over the weekends.  You won't get much when you're nursing also, but you'll signal your body to up production and will hopefully start the week on a higher level.

As far as the pump, you can have the motor tested to make sure it's sucking properly.  The store where you purchased the pump might be able to test for you; most IBCLCs have the equipment as well.  It's unlikely that it has failed after part-time work for a year, but not impossible.  The other pump issue might be flange fit.  Your breast size changes over lactation and your size now with a nursing toddler may be smaller than when your DD was exclusively breastfed.  Do you notice that a lot of extra areola or breast tissue is pulled into the tube along with your nipple?

I wonder about hormone levels, as well.  Have you recently started menstruating?  Your milk supply can fluctuate with changing hormone levels.

Also, is your DD drinking more of your milk while you're gone?   My current nursing toddler mostly isn't interested in my milk when I'm at work, but when she decides she wants a bottle, she drinks a LOT.  It's more about comfort and sucking than about a real need for the nutrition.  You might ask your caregiver to focus on solids and offer a meal before offering your milk.  You really aren't gone that much so your DD would be fine with less of your milk.

I reached a point with my twins where I could not let down for the pump any more.  I'd only ever been able to get one letdown (sometimes not even that) and after about 2 years, my body simply wouldn't respond to the pump.  I found that I could hand-express much more easily and quickly than I could pump.  You might try some hand expression and see if it helps.  I wouldn't sit at the pump for a long time without producing - that's just going to make you crazy.  Take a break, do some breast massage, try again in 30 minutes or so and see if you can trigger another letdown.  Often mood and stress affect our ability to pump.

SO true what she said about being in tune with DD's needs. My DD is almost 10 weeks old, and though I pumped some at the beginning to start a freezer stash (I'm going back to work at 12 weeks) I pretty much stopped pumping all together at 4 weeks and just EBF all day everyday. This week I started (trying to) pump again to supply the freezer stash & begin offering a bottle a day to get her ready, and I couldn't pump! I obviously have milk, because I actually have had oversupply & leaking issues (now solved) and DD is gaining WAY fast (born 6 lb 8 oz now 13 lb!).. so why couldn't I get it out? I think my body has just totally gotten use to her routine & makes what she wants when she wants it and nothing more. So I have scheduled in a pumping session everyday for consistency - first day just a bottom full, second day 1/2 oz, 3rd day 2 oz, and today 4 oz. So I guess it was like I needed to tell my body that more was needed. 

Another huge tip (this one I figured out with my first DS) - DISTRACT yourself! The pump is cold and boring and lifeless and the stress of not getting enough.. it all adds up to LESS pumped milk. So try music, TV, a book, anything - just don't look at the pump, how much milk your getting. Pay attention to your muscles (and your head - I get headaches focusing on the pumping, lol!) - loosen them and allow everything to relax. I am always amazed how much more I can pump just by calming down and thinking about something else. 

[northerngirl]

Originally Posted by CheriK 

As far as the flange fit, you nipple should move freely in the tube but you shouldn't notice a large amount of areola tissue being pulled in as well.  When I pump now, I have this happen & it's hard to keep suction (probably a major reason why I frequently can't let down for the pump, but I don't need to pump so I'm not going to go spend the $$ on new flanges).  A break in suction might be the noise you're hearing & will definitely affect the amount you can pump.  I think if you go to the Medela website they have videos and FAQs about fitting flanges.  If you find an IBCLC to test your pump, she should be able to help with flange fit as well.

With my twins, I stopped pumping regularly at work when they turned 2.  I could have stopped earlier as they were content without my milk (I only worked part-time & saw them at lunch if I worked a full day), but I would get too uncomfortable otherwise.  With DD2, I stopped earlier.  She still wants my milk sometimes (2 and a few months) but I had oversupply with her and still have a ton in the freezer.  I hate pumping so was happy to be done as soon as my child and my body would let me!

Drinking too much water actually can decrease milk production.  Your body focuses on moving fluids to your kidneys and decreases blood flow to the breasts.  Being mildly dehydrated is unlikely to impact supply.  If you're seriously dehydrated, you've got more important things to worry about than a small drop in supply!  Drink to thirst is the best rule to follow.  Your urine should be light yellow or clear, not darkly colored or really odorous. 

If you notice a supply drop around menstruation, you might try taking a Calcium/magnesium/zinc supplement.  This can help.  More info at http://www.kellymom.com/herbal/natural-treatments.html#calcium.  Sorry AF returned so soon - that's not fair!!

Are you avoiding cow's milk?  What about offering another milk or liquid to your DD instead of your milk, or in addition to it?  We introduced cow's milk to all our children at around a year.  DD1 won't drink the stuff, but will eat cereal sometimes.  DS would live on it if I would let him.  DD2 drinks more than her siblings did at 2, but I think that's b/c she wants to do what Big Brother is doing!  And the older two weaned at 5 1/2 and 6, so it clearly didn't speed weaning!

I noticed that there is a 21 mm flange for the PIS. I have the 24 mm standard ones right now. But there are 2 parts that need to be bought, the actual flange and then the connector. Ugh. AND my power supply just died. Luckily my husband jerry-rigged me one until I can get a new one, they're $20 ugh.

It does seem like a lot of my areola is being sucked in. And the noise could be the loss of suction. I looked up and IBCLC at one of the hospitals and going to call and see if they can test the pump and/or check my flange fit.

I am currently taking a cal/mag supplement on top of my prenatal. I am dairy free for dd, so no cow milk for us. She had mucus poop for months as an infant and milk was contributing to that.

When I asked dh if he remembered when I stopped pumping at work with dd1, he said 2 years. I'm not sure about that. I do know I night weaned her at 2 yo.

Thanks so much for your reply.
 

[eleonrauis]

I get a second let down at around the 20-25 minute mark.  Sometimes I have to turn the pump off for a couple minutes and then turn it back on.