or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Why can't I be just a mother??!! "AP vs.Mainstreem Parents"
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Why can't I be just a mother??!! "AP vs.Mainstreem Parents" - Page 13

post #241 of 301
Quote:
Now, if instead I tell someone who choses to use disposables, that they may as well line them with poison if they are going to put them on their babys behind instead of cd'ing.
how about the grey area... parents who use completely biodegradable, earth-friendly disposables that have none of the chemicals of normal sposies...?

(something else i was wondering about earlier in the thread and i don't think i posted.)
post #242 of 301
:LOL klothos, that was just a crazy example I made up, trying to get my point across...I was trying to be extreme... :LOL

post #243 of 301
Quote:
is donated milk not readily available to parents? is it not high quality or not tested for diseases? are there no local milk banks? is it in short supply?
No, to all of the above, my dear, at least where I live.

And I did actually read a suggestion once here on MDC that women who couldn't bf should adopt their children out so they can receive proper nutrition. The implication is if you can't make the milk, you're not a 'real' mama. What good does that do except break my heart into even tinier pieces?
post #244 of 301
famous, ICM...you guys are making me feel all warm and squishy inside...

I wanted to say that I do agree with you, Mommiska, that the responsibility for hurt feelings doesn't end with the one being hurt. We do each have a responsibility to think about what we've said and how we've said it. Many a time I've had to ask someone to edit, when it wasn't their message that was a problem - it was the way they said it. I struggle with foot-in-mouth syndrome myself, and I have gotten alot better (McDonald's comments notwithstanding...geez, I think this one is gonna follow me for a bit ). So yes, I agree we all owe it to ourselves to chose our words carefully.

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I don't tend to assume the worst of people. Sometimes people say things and just honestly, innocently, aren't aware of certain issues that may make their comments hurtful to some. Others, I think, are just really passionate and caught up in their enthusiasm. I really think there are very few cases here where someone is just deliberately nasty (though I know it happens).

I think it's really interesting also, to see where we all vary on what we are passionate about, and what we are "whatever works for you" about. I'm passionate about BFing, but I wouldn't say the same about CDing (obsessed, maybe, but passionate...not sure, lol). I wish everybody knew the joys and ease of babywearing, but most kids I see in strollers seem fairly content and I do see people responding when they cry. I'm passionate about not circ'ing, and iffy on the vax thing (as in, I vax, but I also totally respect the non-vaxers).

Maybe this complicates things, because it isn't just our level of passion that influences "judgementalism" (is that a word?), but when all of us are passionate to varying degrees about various aspects of parenting....wow, now that I think about it, it's amazing we get along as well as we do, lol. (must be all the wonderful mods, right? ).
post #245 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by aussiemum
And I did actually read a suggestion once here on MDC that women who couldn't bf should adopt their children out so they can receive proper nutrition.
Aussiemum

That someone could say something so ridiculous is amazing.

That’s not advocacy, that’s stupidity.

(Sorry I’m being judgmental of another's cruel judgmental comment. Oh my!)
post #246 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by klothos
for those of you who ff and really look down on formula... why not use donated breastmilk?
Well, for starters you need a prescription to get it. Generally they only give donated milk to babies with severe allergies or other medical reasons. There are only 7 milk banks in North America. It costs about $2 an ounce, plus shipping, so even if you didn't need a prescription it would be prohibitively expensive for most people, myself included. (Usually your health insurance will offset the cost, though.)
post #247 of 301
For the OP

The Knot has a baby talk forum that might interest you. A number of women who post there seem very "main stream" you might feel more comfortable over there.

HTH
post #248 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by aussiemum
No, to all of the above, my dear, at least where I live.

And I did actually read a suggestion once here on MDC that women who couldn't bf should adopt their children out so they can receive proper nutrition. The implication is if you can't make the milk, you're not a 'real' mama. What good does that do except break my heart into even tinier pieces?
OMG! : How awful! I am a bf'ing nazi , but I certainly cannot imagine thinking that way. I'm thankful that formula is here for babies who cannot be breastfed.

I'm sorry you had to see that.
post #249 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by mamasoleil
Though I'm still bfing my 8 mth old, I stopped nursing my 3.5mth old, and swiched to formula.
Do tell how you have two babies that are 4.5 months apart!
post #250 of 301
Quote:
No, to all of the above, my dear, at least where I live.
to which i was going to ask, why not use it then, but read...

Quote:
Well, for starters you need a prescription to get it.
WHAT?? :

Quote:
Generally they only give donated milk to babies with severe allergies or other medical reasons.
what if a mother has cancer and can't nurse her baby...? do they just tell her to use formula and get over it?

Quote:
There are only 7 milk banks in North America. It costs about $2 an ounce, plus shipping....


why do all of my bf'ing books talk about them like they're everywhere and readily available, that if you can't nurse you can use donated breastmilk, if there are so few...?

why is it so expensive? just the scarcity? so few people donating? are people paid to donate? i was under the impression it was rather like a blood bank... you go in, you get screened for diseases, you donate, you feel better knowing that you helped the world.

this is ridiculous. is anybody working to increase the availability of breastmilk to mothers who can't nurse? this seems like a huge issue to me.
post #251 of 301
ITA, but I think if you want to really get into it you should start a new thread.

To answer your questions, I think not many people donate, and it costs a lot to "process" it - I believe it has to be pasturized, etc. (though I could be wrong about that). I was amazed also to find out how few banks there really are, because like you I was under the impression that donated milk is readily available. And yeah, I think the mom with cancer would be SOOL.
post #252 of 301
I have a lot of issues with how the breastfeeding books & manuals tell you things will be. It often doesn't match up with reality, IMO.
post #253 of 301
T

Piglet.....I went to the other thread on "identity" and posted something and apologized for being all squishy....then came to this thread and you said the exact same thing! HOw weird is that!!


sorry.......carry on........
post #254 of 301
well... i'm angry. i guess i just feel misled.

Quote:
I have a lot of issues with how the breastfeeding books & manuals tell you things will be. It often doesn't match up with reality, IMO.
i already took issue w/ the fact that they all say your milk will come in quickly and easily, and that if you have a proper latch you won't experience any pain...

it's just... disappointing i guess, or disheartening. or both.

Quote:
To answer your questions, I think not many people donate, and it costs a lot to "process" it - I believe it has to be pasturized, etc. (though I could be wrong about that).
i just looked it up, and they do pasteurize it... according to one millk bank's website...

Your milk will be pasteurized by the milk bank so that viruses are killed, but almost all of the passive immunity in breast milk will remain.

that bothers me too. i mean, i understand why they do it, that makes sense... but the whole point of breastfeeding -- IMO -- is that you're giving a live, whole, raw food that's perfect...

:

(( this issue just got a whole lot less black & white... ))
post #255 of 301
Quote:
well... i'm angry. i guess i just feel misled.
I can relate to that, klothos. I thought a lot of things about breastfeeding before I actually did it.......

I think it's partly that bf'ing has been put down & dismissed for so long, that you just get some sort of hyperbolic reaction to all the anti-bf stuff that's come before. It's an advocates response....... just do 'this' & it will all be okay. well, like everything with parenting, it's usually not that easy.........
post #256 of 301
I’ll take a stab at the passion thing and the “to each their own” question because the milk bank subject has got me thinking about another factor.

First, let me say that “to each their own” doesn’t really describe my feelings on this very well. When I see or hear something that I worry is hurtful I don’t automatically think, “to each their own”. What I *try* do is to be understanding and helpful and if I can’t do that I’m usually judgmental but I try to avoid that. Like I said, I’m not perfect. (btw, if you feel humbled by my description of the activists I’ve met – good – so do I)

The reason I think understanding is so important to avoiding being judgmental is because I’ve read many times about people who were judgmental about this or that until they found themselves in the same situation – “walked a mile…” to me that is the ultimate way of understanding.

I do, however, take a major “to each their own” standpoint about isolated things that *I personally* feel are not harmful when factored into a basically positive parenting package. I don’t know if you all know what I mean by this but one of my frustrations is when I feel that there is an over importance placed on isolated parenting choices. I truly think that children (and adults) are tremendously resilient – much more so than we give them credit for.

I wanted to talk a little about passion. I guess you could say that I’m generally less passionate than some people here. I’ve been in this place of, “The more I learn the less I know” for quite a while. I must say that I really don’t mind it – it’s a peaceful place for me to be because I feel I’m very open learning new things with this philosophy.

I think the passion thing has another element though. The political stuff plays a big role, imo. I can tell you that most people breastfeed in Germany, for instance. They also bank milk and “lending” milk is a common thing. My friends here don’t understand my passion for breastfeeding because it’s not a political issue for them – I’m not saying it shouldn’t be but it just isn’t.

I’m going to go back and read some more and come back later if DC is still sleeping…
post #257 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Piglet68
I know for me, I chose to do the things I do b/c I felt it was absolutely in the best interests of my child's physical and emotional well-being. I don't consider it a "lifestyle choice".

…Anyways, I guess what I'm asking is: did most of us here choose to do the things we do (cosleeping, babywearing, GD, whatever) simply b/c we felt "hey, that fits me, that's conducive to my lifestyle"....was it that benign? For me, alot of it is much deeper than that. Maybe that is why some of us have an easier time being less judgemental than others. Maybe it has to do with the level of passion behind your choices...what do you think?
I think you are on to something but I think maybe it has to do with a difference in what a person bases their choices on. Our family is not child centered (we’re family centered). Maybe if I was (child centered) it would be harder for me to understand how anyone could choose based on different criteria.

I must confess though that most “AP” things actually did have the best fit with my lifestyle. I didn’t struggle with the decision to have a HB, BFing came very easy for us, Babywearing works so well for us that I’ve often thought I would sling anyway even if it was discovered to be harmful, Co-sleeping is what works best for us, I’m against routine circumcision because it makes no sense to me but I’m humbled by the knowledge that I could have easily missed that one if I’d had a child earlier in my life (and with a different DH – who is passionately anti-cir), I struggled with CDing and I regret only making it to 8 months (I totally look forward to trying again now that I know more than white prefolds and plastic covers – my personal “justification” for my shortcoing), I do struggle with discipline but I am dedicated to doing an acceptable job and as of yet I haven’t hit or totally lost it (although I work very hard)

I think I am humbled by the fact that I was lucky that some of these things came easy for me. I don’t know what I would have “chosen” if I had been significantly challenged.

I also listed my “AP” credentials to counter this idea that you are only sensitive about how these issues are talked about if you aren’t “comfortable in your skin”. It isn’t always about people reacting against their own insecurities, fyi.

Edited to clarify what I meant - I am no more and no less passionate, dedicated, and/or judgmental about GD, which is very challenging for me than, say BF, which came very easily for me. For me, it’s not about how secure I am or whether or not I even practice something that makes me dedicated to supporting other parents.

Gotta go…DC’s up and hungry.
post #258 of 301
I can answer the question as to why there isn't more donated milk available. First, most moms who pump amounts of significance are either exclusive pumpers (for health or latch issues) or working pumpers, meaning they are replacing nursing sessions with pumping sessions, which almost invariably has a bad effect on supply. So we are struggling to make enough for our own babies to eat and a little extra to freeze just in case. Second most of us are taking galactagogues of some sort, either "natural" like fenugreek or blessed thistle, or pharmaceutical like reglan or domperidone. Milk banks don't accept milk from mothers who have been using any of these substances in case the babies who need the milk might be sensitive. The milk has to be really "pure". A third issue for me is that I like a glass of wine or a cocktail now and then and I have no issue with nursing anyway, but this would not be appropriate to expose someone else's baby to. Fourth, even a fulltime SAHM would have to take time away from her baby to hook up to the pump, probably 20-30 minutes a day to get even a mere 4 ounces, if she's lucky, and most moms probably don't want to do that just for altruistic reasons. Since fifth, there is no compensation.

I have 180 ounces of milk in my freezer which sounds like a lot but works out to be only a little more than a 2-week supply if I were to stop pumping at work. It has taken me four months to build up that surplus, some of which is "tainted" with either fenugreek or domperidone, so none of it is donatable anyway. My goal is to quit pumping at one year and then give him the frozen milk until it runs out. I feel very possessive of that milk belonging to Isaac and I would not want to give it away even if there were no other contraindications to donating.

My hat is off to women who donate, I think it is admirable but it is far from being an easy thing to do.
post #259 of 301
I wanted to address the idea that more passion=more judgement. This is only partly true, IMO. I am a very strong (might say militant) advocate for a certain cause (think the most hot-button debate in the US - but I won't talk specifics as to land this thread in activism :LOL).

So, I am a very extreme advocate for this one cause- always have been. I have found that extreme passion/activism- goes through stages of growth. First- you get mad/upset/angry about said cause, next you get all kinds of judgemental, then you start to wonder what good your judgemental nature is doing (I think this is what Identity Crisis mama has been trying to say)

Then- you say to yourself- if I want to make a difference- *I* need to understand where the other side is coming from, *I* need to see the other side as intelligent and thoughtful and treat them as such, *I* need to use the least insensitive/least inflammatory terms possible so that people hear me when I talk, and- I need to listen more. I have to remember the people who are hurt by said cause- I have to be careful not to hurt them more- I need to be available to help them- if they want/need my help. I need to educate those who are at risk, instead of preaching to the choir or beating up on those who can't go back and make a different choice/decision.

You see, when you REALLY feel strongly about something, you have to do what it takes to make actual change- which judgementalism/ harsh words/ and venting just doesn't do, YK?

It's not about thinking whatever anyone else says/does as being ok, it's about caring about the individuals and working to do what ACTUALLY helps the cause.

I am working on being better at this myself- I have found it's a process and takes time to mature into (that's why I'm not quite there yet ). For a different example- I only recently became angry about circumcision, I'm still in the judgemental/ rarely helping anyone stage, I want to move on with it to where I can still think it's absolutely wrong, but I can focus on the actual making a difference part, which is much more important than my anger which doesn't help anyone.


I am hoping at least part of that made some sense:LOL
post #260 of 301
Oh my goodness, Jess7396 - are you me?! I feel that I could have written almost everything you wrote.

I wanted to address the more passion=more judgementalism issue as well, but there isn't any need - you've summed up what I had to say so articulately - thanks!

I think I've gone through this process with respect to breastfeeding. When dd1 was a baby, I could not fathom why anyone would even supplement with formula, much less formula feed all the time.

Several years (and a few moments that were truly ) later, and I have realised that even this issue - which I once thought was so black and white, has shades of grey.

There are still situations that make me sad with respect to breast-feeding, and I still get very annoyed at formula companies, etc., etc. - but I'm learning that the way to make a difference isn't by ranting...

Jess7396 - I also just recently got angry about circumcision, and I can totally see that I'm in the unhelpful stage of being too angry/judgemental about the fact that circumcision is even allowed to be very helpful at giving parents the information they need to have in order to see clearly what is happening in RIC.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Why can't I be just a mother??!! "AP vs.Mainstreem Parents"