Hmm, when you want UC but not UP or 'unassisted baby'

[labortrials]

My feelings seem to change by the second.  One minute I'm ok MW only.  Then I'm ok with planning for homebirth and hospital birth simultaneously.  And then I'm ok with MW and 'shadow care.'  And then these plans seem so unsatisfactory in different ways.

The only 'universal' is that I want to have this baby as 'naturally' as possible.

I have lots of wishes for me and our baby.  I want it all, and none of it seems like having it all because 'having it all' was stolen from me in 2004 with that first cut.  I know even that is still just a perception, not a 'truth,' but for me it feels like a 'truth.'

Ideally, I would continue prenatal care with someone - the midwife or OB, whatever.

Ideally, I would birth this baby with my husband and maybe a close friend or two but no one acting as a 'care provider.'

Ideally, someone else would swoop in and take care of the baby.

I'd love to UC, but I don't know about all of the 'baby stuff.'  Is this unreasonable?  Is there any way to fulfill this wish list??

TIA!

[ElizabethE]

I want everyone to "have it all", as much as possible, and I do believe for you it's possible. It sounds like you have some healing to do from the past. :( Most of us do, I suppose. Keep doggedly pursuing what YOU want and you WILL feel better about everything. I believe that. We make peace with it when we take back control of our destinies as much as we are able!

The swooping in to take care of the baby, and all the "baby stuff"-- I'm not sure I know what this means, to you. Do you mean the umbilical cord, any complications in case they arise, or feeding and washing the baby?

Before I figured out totally where I was at and what I wanted, I believed that I wanted to be in the hospital after labor. However I birthed at home, I thought I needed to be "taken care of" after labor. The one positive I took away from my hospital experiences was that it was almost like a vacation, like being in a hotel. People come check on you, you get to relax and watch TV, I always had my own room and bathroom (never had to share with other patients), people bring you food or anything you want or need, and are generally pretty tender with you (save the occasional witchy nurse or staff). My family got to stay with me in my rooms... it was nice. What I didn't yet know was that if I UCed, I wouldn't feel like I was losing a vacation, I would feel like I never even needed one (or if you like, like I was already on an almost perpetual vacation, that everything was fine and beautiful and just how it should be). I later realized through my self-education that my feelings would change because the hospital was not the place to be, and that my needs would drastically change (emotionally and physically, even chemically) if I stayed at home and did it myself.

I told you this because I wasn't sure if this was similar to what you were feeling with regards to the baby, or if you were more concerned with technicalities and emergencies than feelings.

[labortrials]

Thanks!  I knew I could count on you for a reply, and I appreciate it.

I don't mean clamping the cord but the other 'technical' stuff, I suppose.  Like APGARs (if UCers even bother with those) and Vit K or whatever else is done to babies after they're born.  There are certain things I refuse and other things I agree to do - shortly after birth or later.  And then yeah, managing any 'oddities' that might arise with the baby . . . or heck, me.  I don't need anyone to bathe my baby or help my baby latch on or warm up or anything like that.  Maybe I'm just naive in thinking there's a lot of 'business' after birth to attend to.

I had a good talk with another midwife today - she can't be at my birth anyway, so she's not a 'stakeholder.'  ATM, I'm feeling a bit more like I know what I'm doing in the short run.  Heh heh.  But it's not like I'm probably done 'whining' here there and everywhere!

:D

[rsochi]

Your common after birth procedures include

For baby:

apgar (done at 1 and 5 minutes -- you can find a form easy)

NPR if needed

eye drops

vitamin k

weighing

measuring length & head

foot prints

PKU

For mom:

3rd stage management (delivering the placenta)

 --placenta can take anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours to be delivered (tinctures such as placenta out can help with this)

 --assessment of bleeding (500-800 cc's is normal) (tinctures such as hemhalt can help with this)

 -- repair of tears/episiotimies (can be done within 24 hrs, if needed at all.  some women have had great luck with seaweed)

The more you read and educate yourself -- the more understanding you'll have of common procedures and the "what ifs" 

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by labortrials 

Thanks!  I knew I could count on you for a reply, and I appreciate it.

I don't mean clamping the cord but the other 'technical' stuff, I suppose.  Like APGARs (if UCers even bother with those) and Vit K or whatever else is done to babies after they're born.  There are certain things I refuse and other things I agree to do - shortly after birth or later.  And then yeah, managing any 'oddities' that might arise with the baby . . . or heck, me.  I don't need anyone to bathe my baby or help my baby latch on or warm up or anything like that.  Maybe I'm just naive in thinking there's a lot of 'business' after birth to attend to.

I had a good talk with another midwife today - she can't be at my birth anyway, so she's not a 'stakeholder.'  ATM, I'm feeling a bit more like I know what I'm doing in the short run.  Heh heh.  But it's not like I'm probably done 'whining' here there and everywhere!

:D

A ha! You're welcome.  :D

APGAR-- I've come to not believe in. My first born had the highest APGAR score and gave everybody what they wanted and expected in the hospital. We were such good patients. We did what they wanted and they received the sort of baby they expected. She was also the sickest baby and child of mine. My second born gave everyone hell and they were most worried about him. He had a less than perfect APGAR which is ridiculous, because it was due to his color when his color was actually in his genes (he was quite pale, but that turned out to be his natural coloring-- who could know?). He is also the strongest and least sick of my children. My third which I've just had did not get an APGAR (UC), but when I reviewed just how they score the babies I realized he would have been given a less than perfect score. To me he looked pale or even bluish (not scary blue, like suffocation, just not all pink), and he didn't cry immediately. Then again, we had a dim and peaceful warm room, not cold and sterile, and no bright lights to better alarm him or examine him. His coloring and lack of crying wasn't because the poor thing wasn't responsive or couldn't breathe, it was because he was normal and natural and was born in a peaceful environment.

[And yes, it's actually true that newborns will go a few minutes without breathing. People get alarmed at this, but when born in the hospital they expect different, since the baby is cut and clamped and separated from oxygen right away. A good smack on the butt used to be done to encourage the baby to take that first breath and give a reassuring cry to staff and parents, after all. Delayed clampers know and expect the baby will keep receiving their blood and oxygen from the cord, and so aren't alarmed. This is also how water birth babies are born without drowning.]

These factors, though, would have actually given him a low APGAR. He is totally fine and healthy and had no complications and is right in between his siblings in how I assess his health-- he's totally perfect, but doesn't seem like the He-Man my first son was/is. I conclude that APGAR's standards are BS, and are meant for the hospital to assign a score for their own satisfaction and based on their own environment. My thought is that it probably has no place at a homebirth and is pretty irrelevant at a natural birth. You can tell how good or bad or healthy the situation is, and a number isn't going to change or help that and in fact just discredits the whole natural method. An example of this-- to get the score correct or achieve the best possible score, you have to sort of manipulate the baby. You want to test its reflexes (he/she won't like that), try to get it to cry (they don't like that, either), etc. Your newborn would rather be nursing in your arms, warm and cozy, bonding with you than being probed and prodded. What could be healthier for a normal neonate than that? You'll know if it's healthy...  Here's a wiki on Apgar just for a little more on the scoring and how it's determined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apgar_score

Vitamin K most of us will agree is also arbitrary and unnecessary. It's origin IS a hospital one, and it was implemented due to the premature cutting and clamping in hospital affecting the infant's blood. Vitamin K was their band-aid response to their hasty cord cutting (which caused problems for baby). I didn't use Vit K and don't think it's needed in a UC or other relatively healthy births, at all. There are other people here with midwifery experience who can recommend how to find and administer Vit K on your own if you feel compelled, but I don't personally advocate it.

There isn't much business to attend to after birth, despite the usual ritual and formality we are all accustomed to. After my baby was UCed, here is literally what was done-- we dried off, we cleaned ourselves with a cloth because of blood and meconium (just passed after birth), we cut the cord, I ate, we napped. That was it. More clean up occurred after that, but we were just taking care of ourselves and what needed obvious and immediate tending. It was all very simple. Birth is a lot simpler than we think. :) I even waited 'til later that day to diaper, dress, weigh and measure the baby. Before it seemed highly important to do all these things at once, but the more I learned and fell in tune with nature and the way birth was "meant to be", the more I was able to better prioritize to have THE best experience for both me an the baby. Expect your priorities might change, too. It's part of the process. :)

To be prepared for surprises and know how to appropriately respond, familiarize yourself with Dr. Gregory White's Emergency Childbirth. Despite what ill-informed, scare-tacticy folks would say, White cautions that "when in doubt, do nothing". He is very concise and practical in his knowledge and application, and his words are oddly comforting. For each scenario there is an appropriate response, so getting to know this book will help you and/or your partner feel much more ready to roll with whatever comes your way. We had it on hand at my birth just in case, and of course as we expected, never needed to go back to it in reference anyway.

Birth is something that just happens. It will run its course and happen, whether you decide to have people there or not. And, more likely than not, it will be normal and without complication of any sort. The only difference will be whether there is anyone there to interfere with the natural process or not. It can't be stopped, it can only be intruded upon or hindered. It's all very simple, as long as we don't add our own complications to it! :)

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by rsochi 

Your common after birth procedures include

For baby:

apgar (done at 1 and 5 minutes -- you can find a form easy)

NPR if needed

eye drops

vitamin k

weighing

measuring length & head

foot prints

PKU

For mom:

3rd stage management (delivering the placenta)

 --placenta can take anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours to be delivered (tinctures such as placenta out can help with this)

 --assessment of bleeding (500-800 cc's is normal) (tinctures such as hemhalt can help with this)

 -- repair of tears/episiotimies (can be done within 24 hrs, if needed at all.  some women have had great luck with seaweed)

The more you read and educate yourself -- the more understanding you'll have of common procedures and the "what ifs" 

Just my own little comments here. I note that comfort levels vary for everyone.

- none of "for baby" happened with my UC right after birth, and nothing was ever administered to my baby; this was desirable.

- my placenta came out after I had a short but very needed nap. It may have come out a lot sooner, but my nap was more important than worrying about my placenta, after birth. Listen to your body's cues and don't be in a rush for anything just out of nervousness or respect for procedure. Your placenta doesn't turn into a pumpkin at midnight.

- No tinctures were needed, neither for placenta to come or bleeding. I did, however, take a little placenta when I wasn't sure about my bleeding. It's hard for us to gauge blood lost appropriately, especially in cc's... Lack of tinctures or any "unnecessary" "help" was desirable-- for me. To me, I view herbs and anything you take or apply the same as I view medicine. I don't go there unless I absolutely feel it's necessary.

- No repairs to tearing were done on me. Self healing was allowed. Tears are sometimes "repaired" months after damage, and can be done, but is not necessarily required. Self-healing would be perfectly sufficient for most natural birthers. Episiotomies will most certainly have no place at your UC, I would hope... (yikes)

Yes, educate yourself and you'll know what is normal and what you don't need at your birth. Remember, birth is surprisingly simple. We make it harder than it has to be, a lot of the time.
 

[moonfirefaery]

If you don't know, learn. Read, research, attend a Neonatal resuscitation class, talk to moms who BTDT, talk to midwives, learn from people. On this thread alone there is GREAT information. And like Elizabeth just said, we make it harder than it really is. Don't. :)

If you are wavering so much in your decision, you may be better off having at least limited prenatal care and a hands-off midwife or even a midwife on call. Your own comfort zone is where you belong. There's no right or wrong here, and "UC" doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Edited by moonfirefaery - 4/7/11 at 5:12am