So frusterated with the world, today...

[Jynuine]

Sorry I have to vent... and I feel like this is probably the best forum for it.I am SO FRUSTERATED over conventional medicine and what it does to birthing moms.... but Im just as frusterated with pregnant women putting their hands over their ears and singing, "LALALALALALA!" through all the common sense issues at hand, too.

YES it's their right to go to an OBGyn, or deliver in a hospital but GIVE ME A BREAK! Research things before agreeing to them!!!!

A gal from my church just had her first and I read her birth story today. I wanted to scream. They induced her with cervadil because she was 40 weeks 6 days and then her contractions were so bad, she needed an epidural... then when it was time to push, baby's heart rate dropped- saw fresh red blood, oops! Time for a C-section!

Wheel her in, get her ready to be sliced open but...wait.. what is this? Oh... it's your FREAKING EPIDURAL LINE LAYING NEXT TO YOU out of your back! How did that happen??? O_O

So, of course, they find out she had a partial placenta abruption AND fetal stress caused the baby to pass meconium. Nice. Did they tell you that both of those things were possible side effects of Cervadil before you agreed to it? Probably not and if they DID, they berated it as so rare should wouldnt think twice about just going with the experts, right? Just makes me want to avoid hospitals. >.<

[ElizabethE]

Almost every hospital story I hear (no matter how cheery it's painted) sounds like a clear case for staying home.

It didn't use to be that way, and they say ignorance is bliss, but I used to be able to hear peoples' stories and be happy for them or smile or say "oh no, thank god they saved you". Not anymore. Mostly I just have to keep quiet and offer my congratulations on the baby. :/

Every story I hear is just full of things that I pick apart in my head. That was unnecessary, they could have done this, they should have given you the chance for that, you didn't need to do X, etc. So sad. It's not the mommas faults usually. We were all just so misled by the system. Very few of us get the *other* information on the facts. I consider us lucky to have it, and lucky to be open minded enough to have not been in denial about it like most in the mainstream might.

[dayiscoming2006]

Yeah, with my first, I was pretty clueless. Tried researching but only researched everything mainstream and most of those articles and stuff back then just sounded like the doc - basically saying, yeah there could be a really small risk with this or that but it's so unlikely that it's really nothing to worry about and it could still be a wonderful choice for you. 

I ended up thinking for sure I wanted an epidural and labored and birthed mostly on my back. My first labor took like 73 hours, probably partly because of my misinformation on things like labor and birthing positions.

I was told by a nurse to have pitocin on the third day of my labor (first day I stayed in the hospital though and first official day of active labor) because it'll make things so much faster and is just wonderful. No explanation of any risks or anything. Then I was finally given an epidural at like 7 cm dilated or whatever. I was in so much pain from the pit contractions I think. Anyway, yeah that all sucked and then the episiotomy I said I didn't want but was done to me anyway... ugh.

Then, though I planned a UC for the second child, that didn't pan out and I ended up birthing in Romania where things were far worse than I've ever seen when it comes to how they handle the birthing woman. It was horrible. Too many details to it to explain but they are REALLY clueless there. Thankfully, that labor only lasted around 12 hours.

I spoke with a lady with a newborn baby girl in the restroom. She was telling me how because she was advanced maternal age (39) they had to induce her at 39 weeks with cytotec! RArrwrr that ticked me off but I just politely nodded. The she said they gave her pitocin after that. I asked if there were any complications with her pregnancy and she said no. I didn't want to freak her out or make her angry as I didn't even really know the woman so, I just said that they really didn't need to induce her just because of her age. But, that at least she had a healthy and adorable baby. 

Absolutely, I want to stay far away from the hospital if possible. I really think things will work out fine this time and look forward to a peaceful birth for once. 

[ElizabethE]

Your first paragraph sounds just like me, Day! A lot of the third paragraph, too.

The exceptions are-- I still thought I could do natural in hospital... being induced... And my labor wasn't as long as yours... WOW.

And, I didn't immediately know I wanted to UC with #2. I thought I could do it at home with midwives...

[isabchi]

I understand you completed. I have the same frustration almost 2 weeks ago. My friend is 40 yo , having her first and I think the last baby. She in the begining planned a natural birth, but She had GD and the OB the induce her with Cervadil twice at 40 weeks and 4 days, then they started with PItocin. I was there all the until they contraction for the Pitocin were terrible, she wasn't allowed to more ans use movement to relief the contraction,  she was in continue monitoring all the time. The contraction were really bad that she asked for pain medication and they used Morphine,ad later an epidural at this point I just when home. My present was pointlees, once you're there is no way to espape for interventions. I went home crying and tramautaized. She end up with a cessarean too.

[Mamatoabunch]

It is endlessly frustrating. The climate has definitely got worse. I recall 17 years ago, having my first two that inducement was not something we heard in our circle of friends. Mamas were not kept just b/c they were having some contractions, they had to be in active labor, dilated to 4. There was no use of cervadil or cytotec mentioned in my circle of friends either. There was a higher episiotomy rate although. And moms of twins were still likely to be sectioned just b/c. 

[Caitlin0919]

I 100% agree. I had DD in the hospital and it was a 100% natural birth and a great experience, but there were still things that happened that make me glad we're planning a UC this time.

I was able to move around as much as I wanted and they had a tub and shower for me to use and they brought in a birth ball for me, even though I never used it. Of course, they insisted on checking my dilation every so often and they strapped monitors to me once every hour. Our OB was a pretty cool lady and she let DH catch DD, which was awesome. Immediately after DD was born, all these nurses were trying to clamp her cord and get DH to cut it and it was almost like he was playing keep away with the nurses and he kept yelling, "We're waiting until it stops pulsing!" Finally, my OB stepped in and pointed out when the cord stopped pulsing so it could be cut. Once that was done, a nurse asked me if I wanted Pitocin to deliver the placenta. I said no, I wanted to try breastfeeding but they never gave me a chance to try. The nurse immediately started "massaging" me to get the placenta out and that hurt worse than any contraction I had to deal with in labor! Once the placenta was out, another nurse just walked over and stuck me in the thigh with a syringe, which I assume was filled with Pitocin. Once that was all over, I FINALLY got to nurse DD for the first time. I can't wait to do things on my own time this time around.

[dayiscoming2006]

Caitlin, see even though that hospital birth worked out pretty well overall, I'd still say that kind of sucked. It's like they can't hear what you are saying or something?

Ugh. Anyway, I'm hoping for a more positive experience for you next time. On the very good chance your UC works out, I'm sure it'll be great. 

Edited by dayiscoming2006 - 4/5/11 at 10:22pm

[rsochi]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.  :)

Eventually some of them will get thirsty...those are the ones you have to nab and help enlighten!

[mama naturale]

Yes can be very frustrating. I had my first three in hospital, thought I had natural births but it wasn't anything like what birth should be. Made very obvious when I had an UC totally unhindered, normal and physiological.

[moonfirefaery]

Oh that makes me so ANGRY for your friend, because they probably did NOT tell her of the possible side effects. All over the web, when engaging in the "homebirth debate," I run into people who have been tricked by OBs into thinking the interventions performed in the hospital are risk-free. They are either shocked to learn of the side effects, or remain in denial. Why aren't doctors fully informing their patients of the risks?! It makes my head spin.

[labortrials]

Annabelle, in my state 75% of twins are born via c/s.  It doesn't help that twins are out of the scope of midwifery practice.  I wasn't comfortable enough to UC them or rich enough to fly someone in to help them be born naturally.  In the end, double footling breech presentations that happened in the 3rd trimester got me.

I agree that even the best hospital birth experiences are still a bit crazy . . . especially the more you know about the mom/baby dyad and normal physiologic birth.  Most people just don't see it, and even if you point it out to them, they still thank their docs for saving them and their babies (from normal birth??).

[Mamatoabunch]

Originally Posted by labortrials 

Annabelle, in my state 75% of twins are born via c/s.  It doesn't help that twins are out of the scope of midwifery practice.  I wasn't comfortable enough to UC them or rich enough to fly someone in to help them be born naturally.  In the end, double footling breech presentations that happened in the 3rd trimester got me.

It has definitely got worse for moms expecting twins. Sooooooooo much intervention w/o cause. I don't know the rate of twins by c/s in my state. I am sure it is quite high. I do have a midwife friend who said she would help if I was expecting twins again, if I desired help. 

[goldenwillow]

Oh man... thank you for posting this.  I have been so in my head for my newest niece or nephew due in September... I am sure we will be finding out the sex any day now. 

My SIL had their DD 5 weeks before we had DS.  They did everything ass backwards than we... meaning diet, pre-natal options, etc.  They "let her" labor in the hospital for 10 hours then all the interventions came in and I mean almost every one you can imagine.  Wha- la...  C-section.  "Your baby was just too big".  Whatever.  She did however eat like crap and maybe that was true... who knows.  I remember having contractions while we were at the hospital delivering food to my BIL as we didn't hang around.  Completely vaccinated child and formula fed.  My niece now has strabismus and wears glasses and has to wear a patch for 3 hours a day.... just kills me since DS is not at all like her. 

They are pregnant again and due in September...  and oh... their main goal is to have 3 kiddos.....  sigh...  I rest my case. 

I understand that sometimes interventions are necessary and I do not mean to offend anyone here.... I just have a really strong position about the state of our birthing here in the grand ol USA. 

I have to add...  I honestly just watched the Business of Being Born and I am still sick to my stomach and seeing images of women treated so damn horribly....  it is abuse. 

Edited by goldenwillow - 4/7/11 at 2:21pm

[ElizabethE]

Moonfire, I know what you mean. I think that all the risks are not given for a couple of reasons, such as the doctors “don’t have all day”, and patients don’t want to have to read and research it for themselves… they’d just rather take the docs word for it and if it is being recommended, they figure it MUST be safe. Also, I think a lot of docs actually believe what they are offering is safe and best, because it wouldn’t be available if it weren’t mostly beneficial (in their rationale). Quite alarming. Overall I think the docs and patients BOTH do not have all the information necessary to make these choices.

And about denial-- absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. That’s got to be a HUGE chunk of it, right there. No one wants to think they did something negative. Everyone wants the happy ending, or the “it was all for the best”. We could just own up to it all, and say we did the best we could with what we had, but none of us are willing to admit possible error or mistake. This is both after the choice is made, and for some moms, DURING making the choices. Denial makes everything okay, and everyone a good guy.

On a personal level, if I were expecting twins, I would totally UC them.

Xantho. I know what you mean. I have a friend who had a C because the docs told her that her baby was too big for her to pass. I think this was just “failure to progress”. Her pelvis is wider and she seems a sturdier woman than I, and her baby was smaller than at least one, maybe two babies I birthed vaginally. I don’t have the heart to argue with her. It makes me mad and sad to think that she still believes that a 9 lb baby would not fit through her pelvis. Like, they convinced her that her body was broken or something. She probably still feels thankful for their help, I would imagine.

Talking about diets… on this last pregnancy I had started my prenatal care with entirely new midwives (than my last one). They wanted to put me on a non-vegetarian diet and told me I needed to cut my carbs, because they didn’t like that I had a 9 lb and 10 oz. son with the last birth! BTW, I have a very balanced diet but had admitted to craving carbs in that early stage of pregnancy. I am a fit woman with two fit children (at that time) who were also raised in and out of the womb as vegetarians! She was talking to me like I was some kind of rookie here! She said she was going to keep my baby under 8 lbs. Hello?!?!?! I never went back to that practice, after that. My midwives in pregnancy 2 liked big babies, and even bragged on their vaginal unmedicated big baby deliveries-- and with no tearing. What a stark difference this was.

Anyhoo, I'm pretty sure genetics will have more to do with the baby's weight than the mother's diet. Even if it didn't, are we putting fetuses on diets now? Are they obese? And as far as birthing big babies goes, it's the circumference of the head that will be challenging if anything and not the baby's body, which is where the most "fat" would be concentrated. Holy misinformation by "professionals", Batman.

[Mamatoabunch]

Originally Posted by ElizabethE 

On a personal level, if I were expecting twins, I would totally UC them.


 

I would as well, if I was so blessed again. 

Most of mine carried to 39 weeks were 9lbs or more. One I measured much further ahead, increasingly so and she was over 10lbs at 39 weeks. Had I had conventional care there would all kinds of hoopla, increased interventions. Talk of excess fluid, big baby, U/S's, etc. 
 

[dayiscoming2006]

I had a nearly 8 lber the first time and an 8.5 lber the second time. I wouldn't be surprised if this one was the same if not a little more? I think it is so stupid that they think the baby's weight matter THAT much. Some people have bigger babies. My best friend had 2 big babies. I know at least one of them was 9 lbs and she is like 5 ft tall. 

I'd also be willing to UC twins if I had been blessed with them. I actually thought I might have twins with this pregnancy in the beginning but found out via ultrasound and lack of being huge that it's just one.

[moonfirefaery]

My twins would DEFINITELY be born at home, although I may opt for a midwife-assisted homebirth or even having a midwife on call, just in case. I do believe twins comes with an increased risk, just not as exaggerated a risk as the ob/gyns would have us believe. I think carrying twins would make unnecessary interventions even MORE likely and make homebirth that much safer. Not sure if I'd UC them. Maybe.

[ursusarctos]

Wow, OP, this reminds me of my very first post on mothering! I originally joined after lurking for a long time because I had just listened to my dear friend tell me about her first birth, which was hindered by an overbearing midwife who advocated an epidural, unnecessary pitocin, and an (obviously) unnecessary episiotomy, but which turned out well *despite* the interventions. She was actually very happy with her birth experience, and I am really glad she wasn't traumatized by it. I smiled and nodded and told her I was glad for her. But it was definitely the phenomenon that PPs have mentioned, when you hear the story and you're dissecting it in your head and sort of mentally slapping your forehead as you hear the details. So I joined and vented on the UC board because it was the only place I felt normal!

Since then I have come to a much more peaceful place about conventional birth stories. I don't react personally/emotionally anymore because it really isn't my business to react at that level ("God's business, your business, my business" - this has been so helpful to me in letting go when it's something I shouldn't worry about, or figuring out if it's something I should be worrying about). Everyone is on a journey and except for in specific circumstances (like when they ask for information) most people just need to find things out for themselves. For example, the friend I mentioned above had a second medicated hospital birth, this time one that didn't leave her feeling good. She then mentioned casually that "if I have another one I think I'll just do it naturally - drugs just slow things down and don't help much anyway". Inside I was like, woohoo! You figured things out for yourself! But outside of course I didn't make a big deal out of it. (This friend has heard me go on and on about out-of-hospital birth years ago when I was more vocal about these things so she knows my point of view already... to the point of exhaustion. I've found since then that support and positivity is more effective.)

I still shake my head when I hear stories like your friend's, though, OP. It's one thing to get personally riled up and another to see clearly just how screwed up the hospital system is.

And, I didn't immediately know I wanted to UC with #2. I thought I could do it at home with midwives...

ElizabethE, this piques my curiosity. Why do you say this with an eye-rolling smiley? I ask because I am in the awkward situation of having a strong *feeling* that I would like to UC but DH being very uncomfortable with it and a part of my mind saying "well, you should have someone around to help in case of emergency". Of course my logical brain is then like "ok, just hire a midwife, next best thing, right?". But then I get this cautious feeling about that. In a way, depending on the midwife, I could get less privacy than at the hospital (where they aren't watching you as intensively as a midwife might). But I don't really want to go to the hospital. It's way different here from the US and I think I could get a pretty intervention-free birth if I just say so, but it's still the hospital, not the corner of my bedroom, which is where I feel like secretly giving birth in the middle of the night right now Anyway, sorry to derail the thread, but that just caught my attention.

[moonfirefaery]

YES! That is my attitude exactly. I don't give mothers any beef for their birth stories or choices. I try to spread awareness, educate people, open them to new ideas, but ultimately, women are on their own journey. With my oldest, I wasn't ready to homebirth, and I wasn't ready to hear the truth about circ. But I've grown and learned, and every woman has to do that, and we should respect that journey.
 

Originally Posted by ursusarctos 
Since then I have come to a much more peaceful place about conventional birth stories. I don't react personally/emotionally anymore because it really isn't my business to react at that level.... Everyone is on a journey and except for in specific circumstances (like when they ask for information) most people just need to find things out for themselves.