*UPDATE* Calling all posterior tongue tie experienced mamas - help!

[OSUvet]

DS is my first baby and is now almost 8 weeks old. I have had pain and nipple trauma when breastfeeding him from the beginning and am now mostly pumping despite seeing a woman who is an IBCLC and cranial-sacral therapist for over a month now. I asked her about posterior tie a couple weeks ago and she said she believes it is way over diagnosed and likes to see how they do with the CST before pursuing that diagnosis. Well she hasnt brought it up again but my midwife gave me the number of a dentist in my state who specializes in this area (hard to find, I know!) and I have emailed him these photos, waiting to hear back. 

Other than my pain and trauma, he clicks almost constantly when attempting to suck, otherwise he is just downright chewing. Even before I started pumping he was getting enough milk and growing, but I think it is because I have been blessed with a good supply. He usually nurses for very short periods and does not stay on to suck after the initial let down. He also clicks a lot on the bottle.

I am really hopeful that this looks like a posterior tie, because otherwise I think I am at the end of my options and will have to continue to pump long term :( Also I just noticed a thick frenulum to his upper lip (bottom photo), not sure if this is normal but his upper lip is always tight and his lower lip is always sucked in when he latches.

[PatioGardener]

Woah - that's quite an upper lip-tie! My DS had one and nursed much better when he had it clipped (at 8 weeks).

Can your DS touch his tongue to the roof of his mouth? Curl it around your finger or nipple? If not, it could very well be a posterior tongue-tie. If it were my little guy, I'd get it seen by an expert and clipped asap. The breastfeeding relationship is very important to me - and I couldn't go for long with that nipple pain!

Hope you find a resolution soon!

[OSUvet]

Thanks for reading, mama. I thought that upper lip didnt look right - I had never lifted it like that before to notice! As for his tongue, the photo shows as high as I've ever seen the tip go, but he does seem to cup fairly well with it, I can see it curled when I take the bottle away. I dont think he can extend it very far though, maybe just to his lower lip with effort. 

[happyhippie]

Kendra! Oh sweetie, I am so sorry you are dealing with the pain and trauma of things not going well. Poor little boy too. The clicking is definitely a sign that something is not working with his latch. I remember I was so weirded out with other newborns who were sticking their tongue out playing with it. Mine never did that! Until we got it clipped months and months later. You need to find a new therapist. Honestly. Have you contacted your local la leche league? Can you see an ent? Plus, have you tried your pediatrician? This is who eventually agreed my dd was ttied. I mean I had used all of the resources as listed, and no one told me until I saw a picture of a tongue tied baby. This is when I figured it out. This is when I made an appt. with my doc. and brought both the book and my dd and said "help me or else".

I know it is awful. I am sorry you are in pain. Stay strong mama. 

[PatioGardener]

Dentists often will clip int he office when an ENT wants the baby under general anesthesia - I would look to see if you have a good dentist in your area. There is a tongue-tie thread with good contacts around here somewhere...

nak

[OSUvet]

Thanks a lot ladies. As I said in my OP, I have already contacted a dentist who specializes in correcting posterior tongue tie and am waiting to hear from him. Appreciate the advice!!

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by OSUvet 

Thanks a lot ladies. As I said in my OP, I have already contacted a dentist who specializes in correcting posterior tongue tie and am waiting to hear from him. Appreciate the advice!!

awesome! I posted while nursing my wiggly 11 month old so missed that part in your original post. :)

[OSUvet]

Well I haven't heard back from him yet but I called his office and got an appointment for 9:30 Monday morning, oh I so hope this fixes our breastfeeding problem!!! I will update you nice ladies Monday evening.

[womenswisdom]

If you're contacting Dr. N, it might be best to have him check the tongue himself.  I attended a seminar with him recently and part of what he does in an evaluation is checks the suck with a clean finger and apparently he can tell all kinds of things from that.  If this is the same dentist (and there aren't that many!), he was wonderful and gentle with the baby he clipped at the seminar.

ETA: Sorry, having trouble and couldn't see that you had updated that last time. Best of luck!

[OSUvet]

So we saw Dr. N this morning and he inspected his tongue, said, "It's as tight as a drum!", and clipped the frenulum in the center and across the base of the tongue. He definitely has more mobility of it now. BUT so far he is still latching on by clamping down with his gums and still not using his tongue to suck. I know it's only been 4 hours since the clip, but I am concerned he has learned to eat improperly, and now needs to somehow learn to use his tongue. Any advice??

(he also looked at the upper lip but decided that although the frenulum is long and thick, it isn't tight, and the tongue was clearly the main problem)

[happyhippie]

Well, that is a step in the right direction. Happy you guys got that diagnosed.

Hmm, I will tell you what I wish someone would have told me, how about some sort of oral therapist??? My dd was already too old and had established how to get milk out. She still hurts me. The lactation consultant only helped so much. 

[Thejjhome]

Did he ever start nursing better? We are going to have a posterior tongue tie clipped tomorrow, and he has a super high palate, too. I'm hoping it resolves all of the pain he's been causing. The dentist should have given you exercises to strengthen his tongue so he can learn to suck properly and prevent regrowth. Just curious if you think it has all been worth it

[BubbaMama]

Keep up with the CST now, it will help reshape his palette and help him to learn the proper way to suck.

good luck!

[OSUvet]

Originally Posted by Thejjhome 

Did he ever start nursing better? We are going to have a posterior tongue tie clipped tomorrow, and he has a super high palate, too. I'm hoping it resolves all of the pain he's been causing. The dentist should have given you exercises to strengthen his tongue so he can learn to suck properly and prevent regrowth. Just curious if you think it has all been worth it

Yes! Sorry for the late update - DS is now almost 17 weeks and his nursing is great!!! It did take almost two weeks for the pain to go away completely, and he occasionally still has a pinchy latch when he is very tired or very hungry, but over all a WORLD of difference. This has 100% saved our nursing (and my sanity!). I would love to hear your story as well and I hope you are experiencing relief as well!!

[Taryn237]

Can you take a pic of your baby now?  We just had DD's posterior tie clipped (twice) and I'd love to see a pic to compare it too.  Here are hers (the first is after the 2nd clipping): http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m313/taryn237/Posterior%20Tongue%20Tie/?albumview=slideshow

[southernmommie]

My son has the SAME tie at the bottom. Instead of a thin strip its wide across the base. We had his clipped at 5 days old in the office, but now that we're still have some issues we're having it clipped again and they say yes, it does look broad/wide! I KNOW IT DOES SO FIX IT!!! I hate it when they blow me off. Is the front lip not suppose to come down that far? My son has that too.

[OSUvet]

Originally Posted by Taryn237 

Can you take a pic of your baby now?  We just had DD's posterior tie clipped (twice) and I'd love to see a pic to compare it too.  Here are hers (the first is after the 2nd clipping): http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m313/taryn237/Posterior%20Tongue%20Tie/?albumview=slideshow

Sure I'll try - it's going to be harder now that he's not so colicky and screaming all the time. 

Originally Posted by southernmommie 

My son has the SAME tie at the bottom. Instead of a thin strip its wide across the base. We had his clipped at 5 days old in the office, but now that we're still have some issues we're having it clipped again and they say yes, it does look broad/wide! I KNOW IT DOES SO FIX IT!!! I hate it when they blow me off. Is the front lip not suppose to come down that far? My son has that too.

Yes I was very glad that the dentist we saw realized how broad his tie was - and cut it accordingly. It was a pretty deep frenotomy, but didn't seem to bother DS after the first day. We didn't end up getting the lip tie clipped. I think it would help his latch still if we did, but I don't have pain anymore so we are leaving it alone.