So depressed.

[seawitch]

We moved to the city not long ago from a suburban house that was pretty Waldorf in its set up. I was actually quite excited about the opportunities city living would present to us, but things are not turning out OK at all.  We have to be here due to my husband's hospital treatments so it's not like it was just a wish to move.  But I didn't think it would be this bad.

We picked the best apartment we could afford (it's like $2000 every MONTH) but we didn't think in terms of neighbors.  We have to be quiet all day, every day because the walls are paper thin and the neighbors keep complaining about kids.  The management is understanding to a point but there are certain rules.  No noise between 9 pm and 8 am - or else we can get kicked out.  The kids wake up at 5 am (can't change that no matter what) so the only way to keep them quiet is to sit them in front of the TV in the morning.  For like three hours.  Really.  And that's how most of the day is spent, actually, because there's no other way to keep them quiet enough.  Whenever they run (which is against the rules) the neighbors come up to complain.)  They were TV free before.  They need to share a room but they can't go in there during the day cos people below us sleep during the day so we're all in the 6X10 living room all day.  I need to find a job and the kids will be home during the day with DH, who is beyond mainstream.  He just wants to play video games all day while the kids watch TV.  I mean maybe he'll take them to the park for an hour each day, but the rest of the day? 

We can't walk around our neighborhood because it's incredibly crime ridden.  Women get mugged and raped.  I had no idea.  I thought we could use public transport but taking two hyper toddlers on a city bus that's just riddled with.... urban youth (rowdy, foul-mouthed, etc) does not seem great.  We got a membership to the zoo but honestly I can't spend every day driving to the zoo and standing around all day.  Even our food budget for healthy food went from about $300 a month to $1000 - and right now we're NOT eating as healthy as we were and I'm constantly hungry - I only eat the leftovers..  We're living on credit cards and just going into debt more every month.  Can't justify spending money on gas to drive around - and I already got into one accident here (haven't in 15 years driving but I have in the month we've been here) so I'm scared to drive.

We can't play any musical instruments.  Not even kid type ones.  We do some crafts but nothing messy (no painting, etc) cos we're afraid of getting the place dirty.  There's no nature here at all unless we specifically drive to a park, and I've already talked about that.  We can't all even fit in the kitchen, literally, to cook together.  Poor DD had a heartbreak because we were sitting on the kitchen floor to make cookies (no other space to do it) and she stepped in the cookie dough when she stood up to reach something (there was no turning room) and the cookies she worked so hard on were ruined.

Basically, we seriously miscalculated how things would be.  There's no way we can break our lease.  I can't get a good enough job to pay for insane daycare fees for two kids, especially not in any daycare I'd want to put them in.

All day, we watch Netflix.  That's what we're doing right now.

I don't know what to do and I'm miserable...

How to fix this?  =(

[ollyoxenfree]

That sounds incredibly stressful, even more so if you are dealing with health and hospital issues. 

We've lived in a lot of rental housing (not apartments though), so I understand some of the constraints you feel. 

I'd wouldn't worry so much about dirt in the house, since what gets dirty can be cleaned. I'd start with bringing in as much nature as I could.  I'd try potted plants, maybe even some potted herbs and tomatoes. There are lots of crafts that might need tidying after, but don't really spread dirt - fabric and yarn crafts, paper crafts etc. 

The other thing I would do is find some local playgroups to make some new connections in the city. Getting out and about on your own sounds pretty daunting, but maybe it will be easier if you have locals with you who are more comfortable in the area. Is there a library, community centre, recreation centre, neighbourhood art group, church or other religious organizaton, YMCA, etc. available to you? Does the city website offer a "what to do with kids" resource page? I recall moving to one city and stumbling across a parent group one day in the local park. It was organized by a local group affiliated with the city, which provided funding for the toys and snacks that they brought. They met once a week, enjoyed story time and playtime and the parents (moms mostly) had a chance to chat a little. This was in a historically underprivileged area that was undergoing a lot of urban renewal, hence the availability of extra programming. Maybe there is something similar near to you and you haven't found it yet.   

Trying to say this gently, but re-reading your post, it sounds like depression is interfering with your ability to cope and find solutions. You sound overwhelmed - understandably. Is there some counseling available to you, perhaps through the hospital social services? Is there a support group for families who are also dealing with your DH's condition? 

However, if you need to use screentime just to help cope right now, you should cut yourself some slack. It sounds like you've had a lot of overwhelming changes to deal with and sometimes hunkering down and surviving is a good short term solution. Look for some support for yourself and your family, and chances are better solutions will slowly appear. 

[mommariffic]

Okay I haven't even read your post yet but WHAT THE HECK. You can't go into the bedroom because the people downstairs are sleeping? The way I see it, that's not your problem...your kids should be allowed to play, and play freely in their own home. If the walls are too thin that's the managements problem, not yours. I'm assuming your kids aren't like banging pots and pans on the walls/floors and just being normal, active sprouts. I'd go and speak with the management about putting carpeting in, or fixing the problem because it's not yours..honestly. I've lived in apartments in cities and I've had LOUD neighbors. 

So again, do you already have carpets? Those can block some of the sound. 

What city are you living in, may I ask? 

Are there ANY like-minded mommas in the area? Can you look on Meetup or even on Mothering (I know that like-minded folks can be found in odd places...) 

Is there any way your DH would be open to changing how he parents - video games all day = no way. I struggle with this too and I'm so happy I'm the main parent because if DH was they would be watching movies and playing games (video/computer) as well. 

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by mommariffic 

Okay I haven't even read your post yet but WHAT THE HECK. You can't go into the bedroom because the people downstairs are sleeping? The way I see it, that's not your problem...your kids should be allowed to play, and play freely in their own home. If the walls are too thin that's the managements problem, not yours. I'm assuming your kids aren't like banging pots and pans on the walls/floors and just being normal, active sprouts. I'd go and speak with the management about putting carpeting in, or fixing the problem because it's not yours..honestly. I've lived in apartments in cities and I've had LOUD neighbors. 

While I agree that children should be allowed to play, I also understand that when you are stressed and depressed and overwhelmed with health problems, money problems, a job search, finding your way in a new city, and feeling isolated and alone, avoiding angry confrontations with neighbours is much easier than contemplating the arguments and complaints that the OP mentioned. If you are secure and don't have any other worries, taking on a battle with the neighbours is much more do-able. 

The carpeting idea is a good one.  

[JudiAU]

Before you do anything, review the terms of your lease. Maybe the best thing would be to live it up a little and be asked to leave. Is there a clause that causes any forfeit of your deposit if it doesn't work out?

Frankly, you have a right to live in your apartment and that includes doing the normal activity of living. Sometimes you will make noise and annoy people. That is a fact of apartment living. You can try and minimize it by not pounding directly on the floor with wooden mallets or rolling marbles on tile or setting their apartment on fire. But seriously, you have to be able to live and if that takes a phone call about noise every day so be it. You've got to let go of your fear of bothering people and the phone calls from management.

What kind of flooring do you have? Hardwood and tile are much noiser. If you get a lot of complaints suggest that the management company install carpet instead. You are happy to accomodate them.

Consider a cheap dropcloth for messy art. You can get one at the paint store or use a shower curtain or oilcloth tablecloth. Try to find a playgroup or library time or something to help you connect.

Also, have you considered joining a support group for caregivers/partners to people with serious illness?

[seawitch]

Those are some great replies - THANK YOU! :)

We do have carpet everywhere.  White carpet, in fact.  That's why I'm petrified of getting anything dirty (such as with nature finds etc.)  - even if we clean it we can't hope to get it back to its original condition and we can't afford to lose the deposit...  But yes the walls are paper thin and the floor and ceiling is worse.  One can even hear conversations going on above and below.  It doesn't bother me to hear others but my kids aren't exactly quiet - and I know many people dislike kids.  It's not their fault.  I put down every soft thing we have (blankets, quilts, rugs, etc) on the floor to muffle the noise but they still complain and tell me to "make sure to keep the kids from running" - like I can do that!  All I do ALL DAY is nag them to walk, no jumping, no running, be QUIET, for the love of God be QUIET.  They're not enjoying me and my anxiety is really playing up.

The neighbors are really kind of scary - last time they were banging on the door, three of them, yelling to "control your kids" - one of them didn't even have a shirt on.  DH had to tell them to go away - which I admire DH for because typically he doesn't do well with aggressive people (i.e. meets aggression with aggression as he's a trained soldier but he was very polite and calm and defused the situation).  But this morning I let them play in their room and the world didn't fall apart...

Re: video games - we actually separated for a while because that's all H does... I don't want to go TMI but we're back together and that's basically the only way he has to cope with his issues that he's in therapy for.  He interacts as much as he can but he gets very stressed out - that's his release.  Meh.  Not ideal.  Not healthy.  But... anyway.

I like the idea for the drop cloths or shower curtains... :)

I'm scared of the playgroup thing because when I get a job I'll be away from the kids constantly.  Probably from the time they wake up til after they're asleep.  This is just awful really because the plan was that I would SAHM from before the kids were conceived.  Homeschooling and everything.  And now I probably won't even see them 5 days out of 7.  My heart is breaking and I *am* getting depressed at the idea of having to WOHM. I know it's a fact of life for many MANY women but I'm just not happy about it.  And it's not like I'm even going to have a "career" that's fulfilling and rewarding.  It's probably going to be something to just pay the bills, or at least slow down the rate we're going into debt (which, incidentally we never had a dime of before in our entire married lives - and now in one month we have 10K of.

I guess I do have to separate out the issues I can help with the ones that I can't.  I'm not coping very well with this change and I need to figure out how to, well, cope better.

I think one of the things, and why I posted in this forum to begin with, is that I strongly believe in the bloom where you're planted mentality... but I also hold certain values (such as a Waldorfy lifestyle to raise my children in) to be super important.  I don't know how to compromise it without feeling like a failure.  It's not even a little concession like having them attend a mainstream playgroup or allowing them to watch a half hour of TV once a week.  It's like, our whole life has changed so drastically that Waldorf living seems like an impossibility, and I'm really mourning that. These are SUCH important years in their development.  Even if we get to move next year to somewhere better - that's a year lost.

[honeybunmom]

I couldn't read this and not respond.  In many ways, I have been in your shoes.  I have only ever wanted to be home with my children.  They are 5.5 and 2 and, aside from 6 mos maternity leave with both, I haven't been.  My husband is the SAHP.  We lived in a condo, which we owned, and endured constant complaints by our downstairs neighbors about our daughter running in the house.  There is nothing more unsettling than not being able to relax in your own home; not being able to give your children the freedom that is the hallmark of childhood, and having to answer to strangers and consider them and not just your children.  Been there.  Done that.  And it truly sucks.  Truly.  Entire portions of condo board meetings were apparently dedicated to this issue.  We never went.  Just took the calls afterwards.

Only since television has given our 5.5 year old nightmares . . . and I'm talking from things on Sesame Street and Arthur (my personal favorite!) . . . has my husband (who introduced me to Waldorf!), taken more seriously the need to limit her exposure to television.  Because she was waking him with her fears multiple times a night.

Have you visited Finding Your Tribe here to determine whether there may be any like-minded play groups that you or your husband could take the children to?  How old are your children?  Are there any arts and crafts type activities that will entertain them for an hour or two straight?  My 5 year old can do this, but, obviously not the 2 year old. 

I also understand the issues of the city.  We left our condo just 1 block from Obama's house and now live in an area of the City where the neighboring homes are boarded up due to foreclosure, I find drug wrappers on the ground, etc, all in the name of having a house and leaving behind the stresses of communal living in the hopes that the neighborhood will turn around.  At some point, though, you have to determine to move forward.  You'll be amazed at what your kids don't soak up from their environment because you and your husband truly are their greatest influence.  The things that bother me about our neighborhood, the kids barely notice.  The bus ride will most likely bother you much more than it does them.

[Rosebud3]

Sigh.... I have been there.  Heck, I am there  currently.   I just want to commisserate!  I live in one-fourth of an old heritage house, with three other tenant apartments. The house is not set up to be split in this way.  We have three sets of neighbors (below, above and next to us) and none of them have children or are really child friendly.  Our downstairs neighbor does shift work, so he wants to sleep during the day.  My three year old has other plans and has the nerve to do what three year olds do -- run, hop, break into song.  One morning at 9:30 am he banged on his ceiling with a broom because my child was.... hopping in the living room.  He then came up and rang our doorbell.  I did not apologize (and I am someone who apologizes at the drop of a hat).  I just said, "I have a three year old.  And it's 9:30 am. I don't know what to tell you."

Oh, and we have white carpet too.  Who has white carpet???!

It is stressful to be on pins and needles for normal child behavior.  We are paying rent and have the right to live in the usual way.

We are moving out next month and paying more than we can afford for a full house to rent. I don't care if I have to sell my car, never eat out again, if I can raise my family the way I want (singing, hopping and all) without having to apologize for it.

In the meantime, what got me through was having friends with lovely homes of their own.  We would have playdates and the children could run free.  They like having us over because it gave them a break from monotony.  Even friends who live in apartments with neighbors who are gone during the day would do the trick.  This and going to every free event in town (storytime etc) to make connections with people and get out of the apartment for blocks of time.

The funny thing is we are quiet as mice from 7:30 pm every night until 7 am.  But this doesn't matter to our neighbor, who is gone at work during that time!  It is also my understanding that noise nuisance laws largely apply to late night noise.  And things that are within your control -- like blaring music.

I am realizing that in our society, there are many people that just do not want to be around children. Ever.  Despite the fact that they were once children and they may even have had children of their own at one time.

I wish you the best!  I feel your pain!

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by MagnoliaDragon 

I think one of the things, and why I posted in this forum to begin with, is that I strongly believe in the bloom where you're planted mentality... but I also hold certain values (such as a Waldorfy lifestyle to raise my children in) to be super important.  I don't know how to compromise it without feeling like a failure.  It's not even a little concession like having them attend a mainstream playgroup or allowing them to watch a half hour of TV once a week.  It's like, our whole life has changed so drastically that Waldorf living seems like an impossibility, and I'm really mourning that. These are SUCH important years in their development.  Even if we get to move next year to somewhere better - that's a year lost.

Children are incredibly resilient, if you support them and provide them with the opportunity. Things aren't ideal now, but once you've had a chance to regroup, find your feet, and make some new connections, things will improve. Your children will continue to grow and thrive. Trust them and trust yourself. You are mourning the loss of a lifestyle, in addition to trying to create a new one in some difficult circumstances. It takes a little time to find those new opportunities and the positives may not reveal themselves immediately. Beating yourself up for not living up to ideal expectations of a certain kind of lifestyle and for "lost years" won't help you recover what you think you've lost and it will make it harder to move forward.  

The screen time stuff - what about some family yoga? It's active without too much bouncing. Wii Fit has yoga, and if you don't have a Wii, there are lots of DVDs. You could probably borrow one  at the public library. If your DH can't fully participate because of a disability, then even the deep breathing and meditation parts will probably help. 

Originally Posted by MagnoliaDragon 

I'm scared of the playgroup thing because when I get a job I'll be away from the kids constantly. 

Will your DH be able to continue taking them to the playgroup without you? If they love it and ask to go, will he be able to resist their requests? It will get everyone out of the apartment on a regular basis. If your DH can't or won't take them, perhaps they will make some friends there and the other parents will be kind enough to pick up your children for an outing. It sounds like you really need to make some social connections in your new home and neighbourhood playgroups are a good place to start.  

Originally Posted by MagnoliaDragon 

I guess I do have to separate out the issues I can help with the ones that I can't.  I'm not coping very well with this change and I need to figure out how to, well, cope better.

You don't have to figure it out on your own. There are counseling services and support groups. If you can't find them, talk to your doctor. 

Best wishes. 

[tallulahma]

I totally understand how you feel.

My dh lost his job and we had to sell his childhood home ( that he grew up in) and that we had lived in for 6 years. We moved to an area that I very much dislike, with no friends or family, one car to share, and into a tiny apartment.

Our first month here the neighbor complained and it sent me into a serious anxiety/depression cycle. I was constantly nervous about my kids making noise and let them watch a lot of tv. I got more depressed because dh always has the car and I felt very stuck at home because walking everywhere/public transportation with three kids 5 & under gets difficult.


Eventually, I just said screw the neighbors/ let them kick me out- and I started to get back our daily rhythm.

We started the morning with music on, singing and doing circle time. I set up an art "studio" with old sheets draped over everything and hooked on the wall, I put some pots and a sand table on the patio and we go to storytime at the library which is a mile away.

Things are nowhere near as good as we lived in our big 3 bedroom house with a huge yard.... Or when I had my own car and my own washer dryer or didn't have to scrub the walls every day.....


But our waldorf style of living is returning.

I hope you forgive yourself and see that this can be worked around. This time in your life will pass and your hildren will no be forever damaged from one hard year.

[seawitch]

Well, I don't have insurance and we sure as heck can't afford private care.  And we don't even qualify for Medicaid because we have our house in another state we're trying to sell - that's considered assets so not eligible in this state.  So... ask your doctor doesn't work.  In theory I'm sure there are some free clinics somewhere.  In reality... I don't think I'm exactly interested in getting on a waiting list for a free clinic - between trying to shuttle around looking for a job etc... 

In theory H is not supposed to be with the kids in a full time care-taking role.  He says he can handle it but I don't know.  There's a park 6 blocks away he can take them to sometimes but he can't take the bus (due to social anxiety) and he can't drive (due to his meds).  So he can't take them out to playgroups etc.  (Meeting new people is very, very stressful for him.)  We can't afford daycare, not by a loooong shot, and we make a scratch too much with me working to qualify for state assistance.  The only solution is to be home with the kids during the day and work nights.  But then when would I sleep at all?  The only way we can afford anyone to watch the kids is with a SAHM locally, but the ones in our price range are, well, at the bottom of the desirability scale (unlicensed etc).

DH has applied for unemployability and additional disability pay, which would back pay (and hopefully take care of SOME of our debt) but which would take about a YEAR to go through.  When our house sells we will be buying a house somewhere.  But in the meantime... well, it's survival mode.  =/

ETA:  I'm so relieved some of you have BDTD.  It's a cruddy situation but it helps to keep me focused on the big picture - there is life after apartment living.  ;)

Edited by seawitch - 4/8/11 at 11:26am

[seawitch]

On the plus side there is a Y down the street from us that we got a scholarship to that has a great indoor playground where the kids can let off some steam - and it's 90 minutes of free childcare a day.  I think I'll start taking them there every morning while I swim - that always helps my mental state.  And the zoo has a great indoor playground too and is only a few mins from us - and it's free admission with our yearly pass.  Heck we could in theory go there every day, and there's PLENTY of nature there (it's like a huge park with a petting zoo and it's got a huge jungle house and it's awesome).

I'm also a trained doula... And I can try to get some more freelance writing/editorial jobs.  We got another scholarship to a daycare that the kids LOVE - it's only 4 hours 3 days a week, so it wouldn't be a full time solution, but if I could somehow get some work to do while they were there, and then do the rest after they went to sleep, I'm sure I could swing it. And I'm a great cook, baker, all from scratch, know a lot of traditional living skills... I wonder if I can come up with something for the rest of this year to just keep us afloat without looking for a 9-5 job.  Hmm...

Anyway... thanks guys.  :)

Edited by seawitch - 4/8/11 at 11:46am

[MammaG]

Just reading your last post made me think. We are a Waldorf homeschooling family and on a super tight budget, too. I would (theoretically, if you lived nearby!) be really happy to have your kids over to be with us a day or two a week in return for some other service...maybe you are great at canning summer vegetables or meal/budget planning or something. Maybe you love scrapbooking and would be willing to make my poor kids their first-year books (that will never happen otherwise!). Even some future, when you are on your feet kind of deal. I can't be the only one who feels like this. What about trying to find another Waldorf family who might be willing to barter some childcare for you?

Also, I just want to try reassure you about your neighborhood. We live in a pretty grimy, tough street and area. Police are here all the time. There is trash all over the place. When we first moved here, I was virtually incapacitated by both fear and distaste. And, let me add, pissed off royally at DH for putting us in this situation. Two years later? I've met some of the neighbours, and I can honestly say that I am grateful to live in a multicultural community. There are plenty of kids on our street, and even though there seems to be a high incidence of domestic violence, there is also an underlying feel of family values....everyone is kind to kids. One neighbour let's us pick his peaches and play with his dog. One neighbour just lives to dote on the baby. Everyone expresses interest when we try something new, like gardening in our tiny city space. It is far, far from perfect and totally not where I ever wanted to see my kids grow up. But it isn't scary anymore. We're careful around the guy who starts drinking early in the day, we know which neighbours are safe. And we pick up a lot of trash! It doesn't feel like it is so overwhelming now. And we can really enjoy the things that we have discovered over these two years now, too. The local coffee shop that knows my kids' names. The free days at local museums.

I do hope that the transition, while shocking to you now, will ease up. Maybe you and the kids could make cookies for some of the neighbours? Who can ask your kids to stop playing if they get cookies from them? And if they still complain, maybe they will at least feel bad about it! Get to know some local people. Maybe get a cup of coffee for the guy who asks for change in the drug store door...maybe he is a wealth of funny stories ( we know a guy like that!). It took me a long time to stop being angry and overwhelmed (and I have my days, still), but it got better. Hope it does for you, too. Sending you hopeful thoughts.

[seawitch]

Well, I have discovered tonight, after finally starting to breathe easy today, that our neighbors have posted a "lovely" letter about us on the Internet.  Really.  It's charming.

I wrote a response to it in Personal Growth (http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1307552/a-letter-to-my-neighbors#post_16377630) .  It was cathartic to get it out.  I'm not going to send it but in some way I wanted to stand up for myself - even if it's just on an anonymous forum.

[WintersD]

No one has mentioned reading. Reading aloud to your kids is unlikely to bother the neighbors and pretty crucial to their education. If you can somehow get to the library once a week or even once a month and bring home a stack of books, it's worth it. Don't beat yourself up over the TV viewing etc. but consider turning it off for an hour here and there and reading to your kids. I'm not clear on their ages but you could consider instituting quiet time for them to read independently now and then, too - perhaps just a few minutes a day, to start.

[MommyKelly]

Sending super big hugs. Years ago we were in an apt and our neighbors would call the police on us all the time for my son "making weird loud noises". He was 2 at the time and has autism. Trust me if I could get him to stop crying and "making weird loud noises" I would have :( We ended up having to break our lease and going to court. Huge drama! I have no advice, just know others have BTDT and understand your pain.

 

[zoebird]

an update on this would be lovely. :) how are you doing?

we were in a similar situation. perhaps it wasn't as extreme, but we had tenants above and below. the neighbor below was unhappy about our little one playing. we taught Hawk to be quiet "because the bed bug is sleeping!" between his normal wake up time (about 6:30 am) until 9 or so. Then he could run around. the kid downstairs would want to sleep in until noon or whatever, but I was like "dude, he's 2, I can't keep him quiet forever. as it is, i keep him quiet from 6:30 until 9." and, most days, we were out at 9 anyway, so it's not like it was chronic.

but, we did move to another (less expensive) place, and a nice neighborhood too. the move has made a massive difference in our lives.

so if you can move, I would recommend it.

also, I *love* your idea of working from home, getting scholarships to child care to help out with that, and so on. phenomenal! :D