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Honour Roll/Potential Suspension - same kid, same day *sigh* - Page 5

post #81 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy View Post

And there are 6 years left before your next kid hits high school age. Chances are good that the principal won't be at that school by then, assuming BC is like Ontario.


I'm guessing your right, I had three principals when I was in high school. The longest one lasted about 2.5 years.

post #82 of 107
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy View Post

Lisa, have you considered talking to the superintendent of your school at the board level? Even if nothing for your son gets rescinded, I think he/she should know what is going on.
I have to check, but if the superintendent is who I think it is, that would probably not be a good idea. He was the Vice-Principal when I went to the same school, and I'm quite sure he wouldn't take me seriously...and I'm equally sure he remembers me. Aside from the fact that I wasn't one of the "good" kids, he and I got along really, really, really badly. redface.gif

And there are 6 years left before your next kid hits high school age. Chances are good that the principal won't be at that school by then, assuming BC is like Ontario.
This is probably true, but this is her sixth year, already - she seems to have staying power.


 

 

post #83 of 107



Yes and no.  Typically it was the first 1 or 2 people per year who were farting around and caused the damage (popping out the window screens, to be specific)--once that happened the damage...tended not to happen again, at least of the horsing around sort. So you could see it as an ongoing frustration of the university, but to be fair it happened with a 90 percent freshman all-male dorm, so the kids coming in each year didn't know it (or probably weren't paying attention at the 10 minute RA meeting) It did NOT stop the habitual drunks from throwing things like coke machines and mattresses and other things out the window (though they were expelled too) when they got drunk enough, so one could say that it didn't stop property damage altogether.  When someone is made to pay heavy consequences, even if they're not a bad person or it was just one tiny stupid mistake or lack of judgement in the grand scheme of things, sometimes it is used to make an impression on those who are impressionable (with the understanding that there will always be a minority who are not.)  But again, my point is that more than this Ye Bastion of Bureaucracy High School may take a dim view of "not a big deal" property damage even by people who might know better but probably could reasonably be expected to suffer from temporary judgement impairment from time to time.

 

I have seen similar cases of people being made an example of in the workplace.  Or a zero tolerance workplace.  My main point is that I take issue with the people saying that the "real world" doesn't dole out severe consequences sometimes even if there was no intention of harm.  Maybe it's just the kinds of jobs I've had and whatnot, but my experience has been the opposite.  Lots of people who just made a silly mistake sometimes get their butt handed to them, and it's not fair, but it *can certainly be* "real life".  You don't get over the top consquences for poor judgement just in bureaucratic institutions.

 

Say it's not fair, say he should get a break, but don't say "that's not like real life."  IMO.  As always other people's mileage may vary vastly. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post



Did the first guy who did a particular act of destruction get expelled or just the other ones (less the football players)?



 

post #84 of 107
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post



Yes and no.  Typically it was the first 1 or 2 people per year who were farting around and caused the damage (popping out the window screens, to be specific)--once that happened the damage...tended not to happen again, at least of the horsing around sort. So you could see it as an ongoing frustration of the university, but to be fair it happened with a 90 percent freshman all-male dorm, so the kids coming in each year didn't know it (or probably weren't paying attention at the 10 minute RA meeting) It did NOT stop the habitual drunks from throwing things like coke machines and mattresses and other things out the window (though they were expelled too) when they got drunk enough, so one could say that it didn't stop property damage altogether.  When someone is made to pay heavy consequences, even if they're not a bad person or it was just one tiny stupid mistake or lack of judgement in the grand scheme of things, sometimes it is used to make an impression on those who are impressionable (with the understanding that there will always be a minority who are not.)  But again, my point is that more than this Ye Bastion of Bureaucracy High School may take a dim view of "not a big deal" property damage even by people who might know better but probably could reasonably be expected to suffer from temporary judgement impairment from time to time.

 

Who said it was "not a big deal"? Not anybody, right down to ds1, which is one of the things that pisses me off so much about this. He's horrified that it happened, and certainly doesn't consider it to be "not a big deal". And, quite honestly, I remember hanging out with some of those "impressionable" kids and the message they're going to take from this, by and large, is "the principal's a something-I-can't-say-on-MDC". The whole school just watched the admin jump on someone who had already assumed responsibility for his mistake, and watched the admin say "we don't care that you've been a great student, a mentor to the younger kids, inclusive, and a credit to our school - you made a mistake, so you're not allowed to contribute, anymore". This does NOT make the impression that admins so fondly believe it does. They think so, as far as I can tell, because they want to believe that the message the other students take from these issues is in the hands of the admin. It's not.

 

I have seen similar cases of people being made an example of in the workplace.  Or a zero tolerance workplace.  My main point is that I take issue with the people saying that the "real world" doesn't dole out severe consequences sometimes even if there was no intention of harm.  Maybe it's just the kinds of jobs I've had and whatnot, but my experience has been the opposite.  Lots of people who just made a silly mistake sometimes get their butt handed to them, and it's not fair, but it *can certainly be* "real life".  You don't get over the top consquences for poor judgement just in bureaucratic institutions.

 

I have the choice of whether or not I'll take a job in a zero tolerance workplace (I won't), or whether I'll attend a particular college, or any college, for that matter. Personally, I've never seen a good employee have their butt handed to them for a silly mistake, and I wouldn't stay in a job where it happened. I will say that this is nothing like real life as I've experienced real life for the last couple of decades (after getting out of school).

 

Oops...gotta go..more thoughts later, if i get back online...

 



 

post #85 of 107

I'm sorry, I have followed this whole thread and I think you are being WAY too easy on your son. He did something really, really dumb and dangerous and so obviously against the rules. Period. How could a person possibly reasonably believe that doing indoor circus tricks anywhere but your own home or a gymnasium would be ok? Really? Really? And you seem way more focused on (a) your dislike and disdain of authority / bureaucracy & (b) how cool you think your son is, overall. I'm sorry, he's not responsible, no matter how sorry he might be (or seem to be) after the fact. He is 100% at fault and the rule he broke is obvious, necessary and totally reasonable. If this was a mall or something he could easily be arrested for destruction of property. He is almost an adult and this was a really bonehead move. He should take his lumps and move on.

post #86 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessBB View Post

I'm sorry, I have followed this whole thread and I think you are being WAY too easy on your son. He did something really, really dumb and dangerous and so obviously against the rules. Period. How could a person possibly reasonably believe that doing indoor circus tricks anywhere but your own home or a gymnasium would be ok? Really? Really? And you seem way more focused on (a) your dislike and disdain of authority / bureaucracy & (b) how cool you think your son is, overall. I'm sorry, he's not responsible, no matter how sorry he might be (or seem to be) after the fact. He is 100% at fault and the rule he broke is obvious, necessary and totally reasonable. If this was a mall or something he could easily be arrested for destruction of property. He is almost an adult and this was a really bonehead move. He should take his lumps and move on.


He admitted to being 100% at fault so I don't really see your point. I think that by admitting his fault he is showing responsibility. Unless you think that since he broke a rule suspension would have been an appropriate punishment? Or are you saying that he should not be resentful about the way his punishment was meted out by the authorities?

Yeah, someone can do something dumb and still be punished inappropriately for what they have done. Which is what this discussion is about really.

He is not an adult he is a teenager. Sorry, I work with teenagers...there is a BIG difference in terms of learning curve.
post #87 of 107

I guess my point is that I do not think the punishment is excessive. By "not responsible," I don't mean that he isn't taking responsibility after the fact, but rather the initial decision to act was not a responsible one. I know teenagers aren't adults, but this isn't a close call of a decision or some stupid arbitrary rule.

post #88 of 107

I think paying for the damage and doing some sort of service work is a much more appropriate consequence than suspension. And it's great that he came to you and was so open about what happened and his responsibility for it. I'd be proud! 

 

That said, I do agree with your DH that freerunning shouldn't be done on school grounds. For me, it falls into the realm of things like skateboarding, which are usually prohibited at school. Both activities carry a potential for personal injury and property damage, and aren't appropriate to do at school -- I can see the school being concerned from a liability perspective (although I live in lawsuit-happy California, so maybe I'm bringing my own experience into that viewpoint). 

post #89 of 107

Here's how I see it. What is the purpose of punishment/disciplinary action? Not in this situation, but in general. What results do we want? Imo, I think the ideal results are to make restitution, to feel remorse and to be sufficiently motivated to not repeat the offense. So, in this situation, we have a student who feels genuine remorse, (and not because he regrets the consequence)  who never once tried to lie/cover up what he did, who has apologized, who recognizes that he made a poor choice, Is NOT going to do anything like that again, and is making restitution by paying for the damage himself, WILLINGLY and not trying to get out of it. He has HUMILITY. My gosh, what more do you want from him?! I think the ball is now in the school's court to FORGIVE. To punish further by suspension, or withholding other school privileges, is simply vengeful imo. 

post #90 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiLStar View Post

Here's how I see it. What is the purpose of punishment/disciplinary action? Not in this situation, but in general. What results do we want? Imo, I think the ideal results are to make restitution, to feel remorse and to be sufficiently motivated to not repeat the offense. So, in this situation, we have a student who feels genuine remorse, (and not because he regrets the consequence)  who never once tried to lie/cover up what he did, who has apologized, who recognizes that he made a poor choice, Is NOT going to do anything like that again, and is making restitution by paying for the damage himself, WILLINGLY and not trying to get out of it. He has HUMILITY. My gosh, what more do you want from him?! I think the ball is now in the school's court to FORGIVE. To punish further by suspension, or withholding other school privileges, is simply vengeful imo. 


Or simply a power trip. Which is what I'm seeing.
post #91 of 107

Accidents happen, and it seems to me that he has probably learned a lesson in judgement and impulse control from this incident. He's not a "problem child," he's a kid who made an honest mistake. I think that suspension is uncalled for in a case like this. A student who is succeeding academically and is involved in a variety of extracurriculars who screws up one time (causing property damage, not bodily harm to another person) shouldn't face suspension, either in-school or at-home. I think if the school can involve him in the repair of the drywall platform and bill him for materials, he will have done his part to rectify his mistake and the damage he caused.

post #92 of 107
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissMaegie'sMama View Post

Accidents happen, and it seems to me that he has probably learned a lesson in judgement and impulse control from this incident. He's not a "problem child," he's a kid who made an honest mistake. I think that suspension is uncalled for in a case like this. A student who is succeeding academically and is involved in a variety of extracurriculars who screws up one time (causing property damage, not bodily harm to another person) shouldn't face suspension, either in-school or at-home. I think if the school can involve him in the repair of the drywall platform and bill him for materials, he will have done his part to rectify his mistake and the damage he caused.


This is how I feel about it, and I'd feel the same way if it weren't my son, as well. He can't be involved in the repair itself, as that will be handled by a contractor, but he will be doing extra school service, in lieu of that.

 

post #93 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessBB View Post

I'm sorry, I have followed this whole thread and I think you are being WAY too easy on your son. He did something really, really dumb and dangerous and so obviously against the rules. Period. How could a person possibly reasonably believe that doing indoor circus tricks anywhere but your own home or a gymnasium would be ok? Really? Really? And you seem way more focused on (a) your dislike and disdain of authority / bureaucracy & (b) how cool you think your son is, overall. I'm sorry, he's not responsible, no matter how sorry he might be (or seem to be) after the fact. He is 100% at fault and the rule he broke is obvious, necessary and totally reasonable. If this was a mall or something he could easily be arrested for destruction of property. He is almost an adult and this was a really bonehead move. He should take his lumps and move on.

 

Really?  He didn't jump on it intending to damage it.  He was trying to do a cool move and fell.  There was no way he could know that area would not support his weight.  He is sorry, he feels responsible enough to want to rectify the situation financially.  I think that is pretty mature thinking for a kid his age.  If it was a mall I wouldn't be surprised to see the mall partially at fault for having an area not built to code.  Because really, how is just drywall possibly to code?

 

The kid made a stupid mistake.  And the school had some shoddy construction done in an easy accessed area.  Sounds like the OP's son learned a good lesson.  I wonder if the school did as well?

 

P.S. I completely agree that suspensions are usually pretty pointless.  I was suspended once.  Nice vacation day.

 

 

 

 

OP, this is going to be an AWESOME story in a few years.  ;-)

 

 

 

post #94 of 107

(Note:  I have no idea what's up with the underlining.  I can't turn it off.  ARGH.)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JessBB View Post

I guess my point is that I do not think the punishment is excessive.



I'm really not trying to pick on you, but honestly this statement makes me think you've never done something bone headed in your life.  (Or at least don't recognize your mistakes as boneheaded.)  Most people, regardless of their age, really do have the capacity to learn from a boneheaded move/mistake.  Of those that don't have the capacity to learn on their own, they can learn by natural/logical consequences tied to the boneheaded move.  I bet if you asked 50 parents on this board that had been grounded or suspended for a significantly long period of time what their crime was the contributed to the consequence more than half of them wouldn't be able to tell you.  But they would be able to tell you how they felt emotionally about being grounded like that, or emotionally how they felt by being dumped on by an adult in the situation simply because the adult COULD do anything they wanted to PUNISH the child/teenager that did the boneheaded move. 

 

Logical consequences - you can't be on school property after school hours because you made a poor choice while unsupervised.  Illogical consequence not tied to the crime - you can't go the the grad banguet where you will be around a swarm of people and not given any opportunity to come up with stunts because of the number of people there.

 

Honestly, the list given by the OP smacks of the principle piling on as much as possible for a reason other than making sure that future kids think before they act.  Yes, you pile on enough and you will get compliance because kids want to graduate.  But does compliance = teaching them something?  Helping them learn to make better choices in the future?  What are schools for?  To create cattle that follow the rules no matter how arbitrary or are they there to teach kids and help them because good adults?  (Yes, I realize this is a VERY simplistic statement and don't believe this is the proper format to debate this issue.)

 

I just think it's amazing that in our time where we're always complaining about people not thinking for themselves, need to own up to their mistakes, and how many really horrible crimes we have out there.  We choose to take a kid who TOOK RESPONSIBILITY for the situation and make him out to be someone that needs to villafied.  (Or however you spell that word.) 

 

Honestly, how would you like it if you one day, in your sleep deprived state - those early baby days when we think we're thinking human but we're really too tired to breath - you had your baby in the "bucket" seat with a blanket on.  You could have sworn that baby was buckled in all afternoon, but when you get home you realize the baby wasn't.  Now society decides you can't be responsible for driving and parenting.  You have to take cabs.  Oh and by the way you can't take the baby in a cab because you need the baby in a car seat in the cab too.  Or you can't take the baby out of the house without checking with a social worker first to make sure you've had enough sleep and strapped in the baby.  Oh and there is a fine.  And now your DH calls during the day to make sure you're watching the baby.  Maybe throw in a parenting class too. 

 

I realize that this is not a perfect example of the two situations.  I just can't think of an exact situation as an adult to the one we are discussing here.  But the reality is, adults do boneheaded things too.  Most of the time nothing bad happens and we say our prayer of thanks and move on.  But when something bad happens, I don't think you'd be very happy if you had someone just randomly piling on consequences just because they decided you had no capacity to learn from the situation so they had to make you suffer for the situation. 

 

And don't forget there are sentencing recommendations for adults that do specific crimes.  They can't stand in front of a judge and hope that judge didn't eat crappy wheaties that morning.  Teenagers are not afforded that consideration. 

 

Now I'm just irritated and on my soap box.  I'm climbing off now.....

post #95 of 107


To be fair, if you happened to get in an accident along the way, and your baby was ejected from the car and died, the social ramifications would be just as severe, not to mention what you might do to YOURSELF.  Most people, even here, get extremely angry and vindictive against parents who through a "one time" careless mistake cause their children death or immense pain and suffering--yet IMO they are just as deserving of compassion (more so, in my opinion) than people who make a stupid mistake with minimal consequence because they were freakin' lucky they didn't get t-boned or rear ended at the intersection. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katwoman View Post

 

Honestly, how would you like it if you one day, in your sleep deprived state - those early baby days when we think we're thinking human but we're really too tired to breath - you had your baby in the "bucket" seat with a blanket on.  You could have sworn that baby was buckled in all afternoon, but when you get home you realize the baby wasn't.  Now society decides you can't be responsible for driving and parenting.  You have to take cabs.  Oh and by the way you can't take the baby in a cab because you need the baby in a car seat in the cab too.  Or you can't take the baby out of the house without checking with a social worker first to make sure you've had enough sleep and strapped in the baby.  Oh and there is a fine.  And now your DH calls during the day to make sure you're watching the baby.  Maybe throw in a parenting class too. 

 

 

post #96 of 107
Thread Starter 

Random update: The principal took ds1 over to the accident site today, and showed him the repairs. They've redone it, so that the formerly flat platform comes to a triangular point in the centre. I don't think anyone else will be jumping on it now.

post #97 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

Random update: The principal took ds1 over to the accident site today, and showed him the repairs. They've redone it, so that the formerly flat platform comes to a triangular point in the centre. I don't think anyone else will be jumping on it now.


Excellent!

 

post #98 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

Random update: The principal took ds1 over to the accident site today, and showed him the repairs. They've redone it, so that the formerly flat platform comes to a triangular point in the centre. I don't think anyone else will be jumping on it now.



Good! It seems like everyone managed to learn from this.

post #99 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessBB View Post

I'm sorry, I have followed this whole thread and I think you are being WAY too easy on your son. He did something really, really dumb and dangerous and so obviously against the rules. Period. How could a person possibly reasonably believe that doing indoor circus tricks anywhere but your own home or a gymnasium would be ok? Really? Really? And you seem way more focused on (a) your dislike and disdain of authority / bureaucracy & (b) how cool you think your son is, overall. I'm sorry, he's not responsible, no matter how sorry he might be (or seem to be) after the fact. He is 100% at fault and the rule he broke is obvious, necessary and totally reasonable. If this was a mall or something he could easily be arrested for destruction of property. He is almost an adult and this was a really bonehead move. He should take his lumps and move on.


Yeah, I don't think you read the whole thread... Or you'd know that 1) the young man in question was not only willing to accept punishment, but willing  to pay for the damages out of his own pocket. Something many adults won't even agree to most of the time. 2) The principal, in the end, decided not to suspend him and 3) they aren't "circus tricks", this one bugs me just because it seems to indicate you have no clue what parkour even is.

 

 

post #100 of 107

I don't think he should be facing suspension.  The school should be built sturdily enough that kids don't fall through walls even if they are doing stupid tricks.  Kids and teenagers do the weirdest stuff on the strangest surfaces for no other reason than that they thought about doing it, the school administrators should know that.  I would probably call the school to complain about my child getting hurt on an area that was unsafe but not blocked off.  I would demand to know what they are doing to make the area safe for students and if there had been a medical cost associated with the wounds I would have demanded payment.  I don't think your son should have to pay a dime for accidently breaking something that wasn't safe to begin with. 

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