My kid is LAZY.

[minkajane]

DS is 6 and it seems like he is just so LAZY. I have to fight with him all the time to get him to do anything at all. When it's time to eat, he'll take one bite, set his fork down, and not pick it up again until I remind him, sometimes repeatedly, to take another bite. Meals have been known to take upwards of an hour, but he FREAKS if you take his food away, even if you give him time limits and repeated warnings. When he's done with something, he just drops it wherever he's standing and wanders off. If there was a sock in the floor and I told him to pick it up, he'd literally look right at it and say he doesn't see it (that's a common thing with him - we can't ask him to get or look at anything because he'll claim not to see it). If I told him to walk to the front door, he'd turn around and walk the opposite direction and claim he misunderstood.

When we try to do homeschooling, if he doesn't feel like doing something (which is basically always) he'll pretty much refuse to do it and say he doesn't know how. Today, he spelled the word tree several times, then started saying "I forget" when it would come up. I'd think it was because he's bored, but a lot of times, he'll do it from the start because he doesn't want to do school in the first place. Things I've seen him do a million times he won't do and claim he doesn't remember how. I can't move forward and teach him new things because I have no idea what he can actually do and what he needs more help with because he claims he can't do ANYTHING! If we read something to him or show him a video, he seems like he's listening, but he can never answer any questions about it after or even tell us what the subject was. It's like he totally spaces out because he knows it's school. DH wants to send him to public school next year because we're tired of fighting with him to finish a single lesson, just to be back at square one the next day. I don't know that he'll be any better in school and I think he'll end up in remedial stuff, just because he won't do anything even if he is capable of it.

Life is a constant battle with him! Unless he's playing by himself or playing video games, it's a fight. I feel like he's just trying to be difficult all the time. Everything I try to get him to do he'll do the opposite or claim he can't, then argue with me about it. I'm at the end of my rope with this kid!

[hakeber]

Have you read anything about unschooling?  It's pretty great philosophically, and as a teacher it basically undermines my entire profession, but it's actually amazing.  It might be right up his alley and at the very least unblock his mental wall to schooling.

There is a forum here on it I think, or at the very least a LOT of mamas who follow this way of thinking on the homeschooling boards.

He also may be physically in need of more protein or something.  DS needs, but really NEEDS a protein packed breakfast and snack to be focused and energetic all day.  He also makes better choices about food the rest of the day, craving fruit and nuts over cookies and chips.

Just a thought.   Have you mentioned it his doctor?

[melissel]

I agree about mentioning it to his doctor. It sounds more extreme than just laziness. Have you thought about ADHD? It doesn't always involve hyperactivity--there's inattentive type too. Also, many people with gluten intolerance describe pretty extreme brain fog that clears up when the gluten is eliminated. How is he sleeping?

ETA that I forgot to say that people with ADHD can focus on things they find stimulating enough, so the ability to focus on gaming or self-involved play doesn't necessarily rule it out.

[D_McG]

I would also talk to the doctor/have him evaluated. this doesn't sound like laziness to me at all.

[minkajane]

We don't do well-child visits, plus we just moved, so I don't really have anyone to take him to at the moment. I guess tomorrow I'll start calling around to pediatricians. He fights sleep like crazy some nights, but most nights lays right down. He used to give us a LOT more grief about sleeping. Once he's out he sleeps like the dead.

He also talks nonstop, especially when he's watching something. Like yesterday we were watching Tangled. He would not stop talking and asking questions and I kept having to rewind just to hear what was going on. I kept reminding him that I didn't know, I'd never see the movie, and if he'd stop talking for two seconds he'd know what was going on since he's missing so much that he's talking over. I could tell him to his face to stop talking and he would just take a deep breath and keep going. Or talk under his breath. Or sing. Or whatever.

ETA: The reason I feel like he's just lazy sometimes is when he will look right at something and pretend not to see it rather than bring it to me or pick it up or whatever. And he'll say he doesn't know how to do his work when I know perfectly well he can because I've seen him do it. Or he'll guess at what he thinks the next word in a sentence is so he doesn't actually have to make the effort to read the word.

Edited by minkajane - 4/7/11 at 5:58pm

[WildKingdom]

He could be having petit mal seizures.  They often appear like a child is just "spacing out" for a few seconds.  He really needs to see a doctor.

[minkajane]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

He could be having petit mal seizures.  They often appear like a child is just "spacing out" for a few seconds.  He really needs to see a doctor.

He doesn't space out at all. He is always responding when I talk, just insisting he doesn't know the answers or he can't see whatever.

[melissel]

Absence seizures can happen in a matter of seconds. You said he does things like read a word a few times and then suddenly can't read it. Things like that could be a sign. However, it does sound more to me like an ADHD thing. I can walk into a room, do a few things, then walk away. When I come back, I find that I've left food sitting on the counter and every cabinet I touched open. My DD5, who hasn't been diagnosed but whom I strongly suspect has a mild version, has told me in the past that she "feels like a ghost," like the things I say (instructions I give her) pass right through her. She'll stand in the middle of a messy room and tell me it's clean.

Take him to a doctor, and in the meantime, be patient with him and try and help him cope.

[WildKingdom]

Absence seizures can be just for a couple of seconds, but can happen up to 50 times a day.  This often leads to kids missing crucial little bits of information, and appearing to have learning difficulties or trouble following directions.

It's just a thought.  No matter what, though, I have trouble writing off a 6 year old as just being "lazy" without a medical evaluation.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by minkajane 

Or he'll guess at what he thinks the next word in a sentence is so he doesn't actually have to make the effort to read the word.

Just to pick up on this example (I know it's not the whole picture) but actually this is a very normal way for 6 year olds to start learning how to read.  In fact most adults read this way, too, (by guessing the next word before they read it) and it is how we acquire lexical groupings.  It's a perfectly normal part of complex language acquisition and should be encouraged.  That one is not laziness; it is developmentally normative.  ETA: it is also normal for them to be able to read a word five or six times and then not.  I don't know why, but learning to read is not easy, and like learning a new language you can know a word and use it 15 -30 times before you actually internalize it.

DS sometimes says he can't see things right in front of him, too.  Boys see the world differently (typically) and actually do not always see details (like a sock in the middle of a room) because they are absorbing all the other things in the room at the same time...just saying. 

[stik]

Medical evaluation is a good starting point here.  

I also think your husband has a point about school.  Sometimes kids and parents get into power struggles that get in the way of learning.  While I wouldn't necessarily use the word lazy, your son does sound kind of oppositional.  Sending him to school might help.  At the very least, then you would have more people to share the load of educating your son.  

[One_Girl]

It sounds like there are a lot of power struggles going on.  I suggest finding ways to take yourself out of the picture.  My dd takes an hour to eat because she is just a naturally slow eater.  It drives me crazy, but that is the way she is and nagging her to eat bites or take normal bites just builds up my anger.  I found that by not engaging in any conversation and just letting her take her time while I went off to do other things I actually helped my dd speed up more once she realized I wasn't going back to the old nagging way.  I also found that when I started eating the dessert without waiting for her after half an hour she would finish her food within five minutes and be ready for ice cream.  It isn't something that happened overnight because we were both used to the negative attention she got from this, but it happened.  When I was homeschooling her we got into the same negative cycle with work so I did the same thing with her work, I made sure she knew how to do the work then I left and let her do it with the knowledge that it needed to get done before she went played with her toys.  The first few days it took her an hour to do each task but when I took the battle out of the problem she started doing the work in 15 to 30 minutes without complaining about the work. 

There may be something else going on, but for my dd a power struggle with anything is enough to make her slow down or go into refusal mode.  When I take myself out of the struggle and just set up basic guidelines without nagging her towards them she actually meets them faster and more willingly than she does if I am in her face reminding her constantly of the task at hand. 

[Lakeeffectsnow]

ADHD?  Central auditory processing disorder?  Some other kind of processing disorder?  I'd find a a doctor and have him assessed.  My youngest son has ADHD.  Sometimes he will not stopped talking.  He misses huge chunks of information simply because he's watching a bee outside the window and he is hyper focused on that while I'm trying to talk about his lesson.  If we hadn't know early on that he had ADHD and learned to different ways to cope with him, our lives would be hell.  He doesn't respond to me like my other kids.  He can be the sweetest, gentlest, and kindest of my kids, but he is also the hardest to deal with day in and day out.  We home school, but it only works because we have the tools to deal with him.  Get some help, it doesn't sound like it is working for any of you.

[LynnS6]

I strongly recommend the books "The Myth of Laziness" and "A Mind at a Time" by Mel Levine. (I'd probably start with A Mind at a Time.) Learning differences/disorders can seem like laziness. It's a vicious circle actually, because the child gets frustrated, gives up, doesn't try, and then truly looks lazy. If he really is processing things differently, or has attention issues, or trouble sequencing, or poor auditory memory skills or any of a host of other issues, then he needs different teaching strategies. What you're doing isn't working and so it's time for outside help.

So, I would recommend that you do have him assessed as soon as you can find someone, just to help you understand him better. Once you know what's going on, you can figure out if continuing to homeschool is best, or whether he'd better better off in school, or with a tutor, or being unschooled. My kids thrive in school, and I'd be a lousy homeschooler. I've got a good friend with 2 special needs kids who does an amazing job homeschooling them. I'd be hesitant to unschool until you figured out whether he's got some processing issues going on. His inability to find things, or his tendency to space out while eating for example, strikes me as not typical. (Does he have low muscle tone?)

Until then, I'd echo the others: When he's eating, eat your meal, and then go do your thing. If he's still at the table not eating and it takes him an hour, oh well. For schooling, I'd try dividing things into smaller 'chunks' throughout the day and see if you can do it that way. Before you sit down to do schooling, can he do some good 'heavy' work, like jumping on a trampoline (or off the couch) and carrying some heavy things? It might help him focus better.

[hakeber]

I can't seem to stop thinking about this thread.  The word Lazy is so loaded.  I know you don't mean it that way, but it is full of connotations that are, especially in the societies of the Global North, considered socially unacceptable and deviant.

He really doesn't seem to be that different than any other six year old I know, especially one with a father who is, as your sig points out, a gamer.  I wouldn't be too quick to slap any labels on him.  I might take him for a physio-therapist exam to see how he might be able to (in an ENJOYABLE way) improve his gross and fine motor skills (my DS needs help with these too, but his Gran is an occupational therapist and has given us some great strategies that feel too much like play for DS to realize he is developing any skills, within weeks he was right where his teachers thought he shouold be), but I'd be very wary of fishing for a diagnosis which doctors, especially in the States, are all too happy to dole out.  I'd be particularly careful of diagnoses that imply heavily medicating a still growing child with psychotropic drugs.  There is nothing you have described, Minkajane, that seems particularly odd or abnormal to me.  I know it is hard to get inside the mind of a six year old boy, but as a teacher I have read quite a lot about childhood devlopment, and both physically and educationally your son does NOT sound off the scale of normal.

Kids take a long time to eat.  My DS usually takes about an hour to eat his dinner, and he takes breaks in the middle to hug people, to tell a story.  Actually when you think about it. it's not only MUCH healthier to eat this way, it is also a very nice time to bond, to s l o w  d o w n and talk to your kids about thier day.  We used to fight it, now we embrace it and realize it's one of the best times of the day...we just have to be careful to build in the time...I typically get home and start dinner immediately, or ask our housekeeper or DH to throw some stuff in a crockpot for me.  It's not to say we never get annoyed but that is MY issue, not his.

Kids space out.  Their brains (like their tummies) need more time to disgest information and at this age?  They are absorbing information lightening fast and so every now and then they drop out to process.  It's totally normal.  Most first grade teachers I know build processing time into their daily schedules because kids this age NEED this time to just be quiet and think.  FWIW, it is during these moments that DS comes up with some of his most ingeneous ideas.  He's not being lazy, he's being reflective.  Even if you ask him what he's thinking and he says "nothing" what that really means is EVERYTHING.   

Kids do talk incessantly when they are excited about something.  Almost every child I know does this, and it is SO frustrating.  But they will calm down eventually.  And you can't tell me you seriously cared about the movie Tangled (if you did, perhaps try watching it alone first, and then with him -- I do this when I actually want to see the film).  It's a kids film.  The whole point of you watching a kids film (correct me if I'm wrong) is to BOND with your kid, not to watch a film.  Really.  It's to share a moment and build a memory, no?  So, as gently as I can, I am suggesting you chill out a little and enjoy the talking.  He's opening up to you.  Let him.

The spotting stuff on the floor is also SUPER irritating, but as far as I can tell, normal, and boys are particularly bad at spotting details (they have more frenetic energy than girls as a general rule) and they see the world from a very different perspective.  It's one of the reasons their art work tends to be (and obviously this gender separation is not 100% accurate, it's just tendencies) chaotic and they color out of the lines so much longer than most girls.  It's the way they view the world.  It helps me if I get down on his level (I forget sometimes that being three feet taller gives me a better vantage point for things) and then if I narrow the viewing circle..."Look between the coffee table and the sofa, do you see it now?  No?  Look between the sofa and the throw rug, do you see it now?..." and so on.   Another thing that has helped has been playing a LOT of "I spy", on the bus, on the sidewalk, in the park, at the supermarket, everywhere! and also those spot the difference games.  It's so much fun for him to solve the puzzle and it helps train his eye for detail.  remember that grown up have learned to control their retina and focus much more specifically than children.

Lazy is a really unkind word in my point of view, and I gently suggest that you rephrase and reshape your perspective on your son and consider that he is just six and may see the world in a different way from you.

ETA:  I also just noticed that you are near the end of your pregnancy...this may be affecting your patience levels and he might be resisting you in fear of the coming baby...he may be testing your rejection tolerance to see if this baby is going to replace him or make less time and less love for him.  You may want to address thyis emotional fear before you push too hard on finding out "what's wrong with him?"  Kids will internalize these feelings, especially if they sense that baby is obviously accepted and happily so by the family.  They may not even realize they feel anxiety about it, but if you think about it, anxiety must be inevitable.  This is HUGE life change for him, I think you should tread gently and allow him to express this fear how he needs to.

[chaimom]

I came back to this post, too. Your descriptions of your son sound a lot like one of my boys at age 6.  I knew he was smart and couldn't figure out why he refused to do homework, and would know something one minute and not the next.  He "refused" to learn to tell time or even to tie his shoes until 2nd grade. My son was considered lazy by his teachers at 6 because he would do everything to get out of reading and writing. 

Turns out, my poor son has dyslexia. Reading and writing were SO OVERWHELMING to him because he was not being taught in a way that he could learn. Can you imagine being told to do homework-- oh, and by the way-- do it in a foreign language.  That's what it was like for him. Thank God I didn't listen to his teacher and finally had him privately evaluated at the beginning of 2nd grade.

It has been a HUGE relief to know what's going on. And to know what methods of teaching will help him. 

I also agree that LAZY is a loaded word--- especially for such a young kid. I think you should look for what ELSE is going on with him. Off the top of my head, there could be Executive Function issues (which means he has trouble figuring out what order to do things in), he could have Sensory Issues, ADD, ADHD or any number of things. My BIL, for instance, used to battle his son at ages 2,3 4 & 5 over mealtime because the kid just would not use a utensil. Turns out he has severe executive function and sensory issues-- my nephew's brain couldn't efficiently tell him how to pick up a fork, aim it at the food, pick up the food, open his mouth, move the fork in, close his mouth, etc. But his parents battled him over food for YEARS because they thought he was lazy. They literally took away his dinner because he wouldn't use a fork, and he went to bed hungry. My BIL felt like a giant ass (which he was) once he found out he'd been torturing his son over something his little guy had absolutely no control over. OT has solved the problem and mended the relationship issue that developed as a result.

There's another thing to consider before labeling your son lazy.  Maybe you're not parenting him effectively.  Any chance you're contributing to his issues in some way?  Do you yell too much so he turns you off? Have you created an environment where if he rebels enough he gets his way? I don't know.  But maybe it's not just your son's issue.

I urge you to have your son evaluated by a professional to see if there's something going on.  At the same time, I think you should ask yourself if there's a more effective way to parent him.  Would a reward chart get him on track?  What else would motivate him?  How about asking him?  My son is tutored before school 3x week because of his dyslexia.  It is a grind.  He promised not to complain and to do his best if, after he moves up 10 levels in his tutoring, he gets a long board.  It took 6 months, but he's about to meet his goal and I'm getting him a long board.  He has rarely complained and he deserves it.   

Best of luck.

[Polliwog]

I've got ADHD. There are things sitting on my floor/counters/wherever that I KNOW are there, and that I want to clean up, but I haven't touched them in weeks. Sometimes longer.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by Polliwog 

I've got ADHD. There are things sitting on my floor/counters/wherever that I KNOW are there, and that I want to clean up, but I haven't touched them in weeks. Sometimes longer.

hmmmmm, I do not have ADHD and I have things sitting on my floors and counters etc that I KNOW are there and I keep meaning to clean up but have not touched for weeks or even months.  What does it mean?  I'm like the opposite of OCD for everything but my work space.

[Astrogirl]

Originally Posted by hakeber 

hmmmmm, I do not have ADHD and I have things sitting on my floors and counters etc that I KNOW are there and I keep meaning to clean up but have not touched for weeks or even months.  What does it mean?  I'm like the opposite of OCD for everything but my work space.

Rather than be tempted to find another acronym or 'ism' to throw around, I might wager you are similar to me and just find comfort in having things that way.  You keep your workspace clean because its essential, but the other stuff? you like having it around, thats all. :)  Not everything is a disorder.  Or everything is a disorder, depending on your philosphy and semantics. :lol:

to the OP: your child could be hypotonic.  I was at a child and my younger DD is also.  In other to combat it, we both need tonnes of sports to keep us active, because once we stop and slip back into the lazy zone, it takes a big kick in the ass to get us going again.   I also used to stop mid-meal and not want to pick up my fork and chew anymore because i just would all of a sudden get super tired from it, like i couldnt get my muscles to reflex anymore.
 

[Jennifer Z]

I also think an eval would be well worth the time.  There are some flags that could be anything from Auditory processing disorders, visual processing disorders, ADHD, and seizure activity, and that is just based on my circle of friends and the combined experience of being around our kids.  A developmental pediatrician would be a good next step.  Evals with a speech therapist (for auditory processing, dyslexia, or phonological awareness issues) and an Occupational therapist for sensory issues would be good to have too.  The ST especially.  Some of the phonological awareness and auditory processing stuff can be pretty invisible if you don't know what you are looking for, but can have a massive impact on behavior.  (for that matter, so can sensory and low tone issues...once you are familiar with it, you won't believe you missed it, but until you understand it, you just can't see it)  It could be as simple as sleep apnea or other things causing a lack of sleep, which interferes with concentration, fatigue and behavior.

If you are homeschooling then you really need to be proactive with this. We homeschool our oldest, who has very significant special needs.  Between my two kids, one with Autism, one with much less severe SNs (significant lack of phonological awareness & mild auditory processing issues), we spend 4 days a week in various therapies, sometimes multiple therapies a day.

If you do want to continue to homeschool, you are going to have to make it more structured.  Kids who have the kinds of struggles that you are describing need a lot more structure, including things like visual schedules and other visual supports (if they are pre or early reading especially), or their anxiety becomes so high they aren't able to take in new information.  You don't want all of their energy used up on just trying to figure out what you expect, with nothing left over to tackle the actual subject at hand.

Hang in there.  It is frustrating when you realize things aren't working "like they are supposed to".   Knowledge is power though, and getting some outside help as you learn to understand what is going on is critical to helping your child succeed.  It will benefit both you and them in the long run.