Feeling overwhelmed - TF versus ovolacto vegetarian

[SandraMort]

I've had a long day so hopefully I can be brief without leaving too much out.  My 12 year old ovolacto-vegetarian daughter had a grim appointment today.  Elevated bp & cholesterol, D deficient, anemic and overweight.  My 3 year old's hemoglobin was also low & has some hearing loss (got an ENT referral), though the rest of her checkup went well.  

On one hand, I'm reading about WAPF and traditional food/real food etc etc etc.  I'm making changes in that direction and they feel good.  On the other hand, I'm reading about traditional whole foods vegetarianism blah blah blah.  And that's what I'm familiar with and know how to do, especially vegetarian.

Her diet, overall, isn't bad, but it could use some tweaking.  She's got too much refined carbs and not enough veggies, but we're already working on that.  She skips meals because she's grumpy in the morning.  I've got some virgin palm oil that is high in D so we're starting with that, though I'm not opposed to D supplementation if that's not enough.  She's also got some recurring problems with night wetting, but I don't think that's related.  They want her to come back in a month to check the bp and anemia and I have a referral to a ped urologist.  I also have a referral to an ENT for the baby.

Now what?  Raw whole milk or skimmed?  Whole grains or avoid grains?  Limit fats or encourage "good" fats?

OH! And on top of everything else, they've got pinworms!  GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I'm so tired...

Sandra

[SandraMort]

http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/855217/whole-foods-tf-like-veg-ns is interesting, but I dunno.

[SandraMort]

OH, and I'll be picking up floradix tomorrow along with the pinworm meds.

[phathui5]

Elevated bp & cholesterol, D deficient, anemic and overweight. 

I think that getting the bulk of her calories from produce, fat and protein will help a lot. At each meal, see that she's eating fruit and/or vegetable, a protein food and a healthy fat (like avocado, olive oil). Floradix isn't a bad addition, just try not to overdo it. If she eats an orange or something with Vitamin C with it, her body will absorb it better.

Now that the weather is starting to improve, kick her outside for an hour or three everyday. Does she have a bike/scooter/skates? Being outdoors and moving will help with the Vitamin D and the weight.

She's old enough that she could meet with a nutritionist to develop a plan that she can deal with.

[SandraMort]

Phathui -- Thank you so much for coming here to answer, I knew you'd be a good one to ask!

We're trying to gently enourage the produce more, but the kids are all starch junkies.  They're happy with whole grain, but they like their carbs.  Fat's no problem.  Protein is mostly dairy, egg and legumes, but she does have some processed soy.  Not a lot, though.

Yes, I was planning to do C with the floradix.

She spends a good bit of time outside at school.  At home, though, there's not much she can do outside.  We have a very small yard.
 

I suggested the nutritionist (I actually hadn't thought of that, thank you!) and she's thinking about it.  I'd like her to take more responsibility for how we do this because it's too easy for her to eat well at home and eat junk when she's out -- I'd rather she wanted to eat better so she's motivated to do it when she's at school, too.

I think that getting the bulk of her calories from produce, fat and protein will help a lot. At each meal, see that she's eating fruit and/or vegetable, a protein food and a healthy fat (like avocado, olive oil). Floradix isn't a bad addition, just try not to overdo it. If she eats an orange or something with Vitamin C with it, her body will absorb it better.

Now that the weather is starting to improve, kick her outside for an hour or three everyday. Does she have a bike/scooter/skates? Being outdoors and moving will help with the Vitamin D and the weight.

She's old enough that she could meet with a nutritionist to develop a plan that she can deal with.

[SandraMort]

I have to be honest, part of it's money.  Gary's been unemployed for seven months now.  Feeding the bulk of the carbs as produce is really expensive.  Sure, I could get canned veggies, but I don't think that would help much (if I could even get the kids to eat them, which is iffy at best).  I know that once the CSA that we joined starts, we'll be doing a lot better, but that's not until June.

[Magelet]

Oh mama, I feel you on the trying to eat healthy while on a tight budget. My DP has been out of work for about 6 or 7 months too. Maybe 8. I stopped counting, it's less depressing.

We eat a lot of cheap veggies as carbs (like potatoes, sweet potatoes, cabbage, carrots, etc.  We eat a lot of potatoes), and not much of expensive ones.  Until we have our garden up (first year we have a garden, since either of us were kids!!), we don't buy things like asparagus, fresh peas, etc, at all, as they're too expensive.  We buy whats seasonal and cheap as heck. So in august, tons and tons and tons of squash and zucchinis. Right now, lots of potatoes, dark leafy greens, and onions.

If she is having vit. D issues, then definitely whole milk.  Vitamin D is fat soluble, so even to milk which they add vitamin d (which is then synthetic), if it is skimmed, the body can't digest it.  Even vit. D supplements are supposed to be taken with some fat (like a spoonful of olive oil).  So raw or not, I'd definitely get whole fat milk for her, and make sure she was getting plenty of whole fat, grass-fed dairy.  In my experience, fats make you fuller, and crave less carbs and sugar, so the fat helps you lose weight, and then maintain at a healthy weight.

[JMJ]

For elevated blood pressure and cholesterol, you'll want to be thinking about eating foods that are low on the glycemic index and even more importantly, low on the fructose index.  That means strictly limit all sweeteners, fruit juices, processed foods, and flour (even whole wheat flour).  This also means adding protein and fat to meals so that simple carbs are not served alone.  The hardest is snacks.  Instead of crackers, chips, candy, etc, snack on nuts, cheese, whole fruit, vegetables/hummus, and leftovers.  This should also help with the overweight problem.  Increasing fish would also be helpful.

To fix vitamin D deficiency, you'll want her getting large amounts from both the sun and her diet.  Pastured eggs are one of the richest food sources of vitamin D.  Herring/sardines, certain cod liver oils (most have very little vitamin D), lard, and whole milk are also good sources of vitamin D.  In order to make adequate vitamin D from the sun, she absolutely must have adequate dietary fat.  Restricting her fat will make her Vitamin D deficiency worse, not better.  I would definitely focus on good fats rather than low fat.

For both your daughters' problems with low iron, I would consider investing in a cast iron pan.  Iron from animals is absorbed much more easily than iron from plants.  There are vegetarian ways to get enough iron, but red meat can do a lot to raise iron levels, even if you just serve it sometimes.

If you actually look at what traditional healthy cultures were eating, in many cases, it's a lot less animal products than what the WAPF recommends today.  Many cultures did have a heavy reliance on well-fermented grains and beans.  You could certainly be mostly vegetarian with meat just a couple times a week and be on a healthy TF diet.  It's just that fermenting all those grains takes a lot of work.

[laohaire]

I think you're on the right track already! Yes, even with the confusion :)

You say her diet isn't bad, but unfortunately, that doesn't mean a lot. Not least since there is so much debate over what is good and what is bad.

It's your family's journey, but I will tell you that I've tried both theories - the low fat/low calorie way, and the good fats/higher protein way - and the former didn't work for me, and the latter is working.

I am a former vegetarian, so I'm sensitive to the subject of TF-vs-vegetarianism. I have a couple of thoughts, and while they may kind of conflict, I do believe in both:

1) It's my personal and humble opinion (not being a scientist, nor a dietician, nor having ever met your daughter) that her health can be greatly improved without adding meat to it. I would suggest she completely eliminate sugar, which can be a difficult thing to decide to do. She can decide to do it temporarily, and if so, I'd recommend a 6 week period. If she believes she's made improvements, she should commit to another 6 week period, and so on. At some point I came to a decision that I wanted my health a lot more than I wanted a lifetime of sugar. I would also recommend considering an elimination diet to see if she is reacting to any common allergens. I've found for myself that something could be problematic for one's body without one even knowing about it. Main culprits: wheat and dairy. Others: peanuts, eggs, (and more).

2) I'm a former moral vegetarian who now eats meat, but my morals have not changed. I'm ok with meat-eating but not factory farming. A few years ago I discovered there was an alternative - buying meat from small, local farms that I could visit, see the animals, ask questions, and feel satisfied (for myself) with the conditions. This is very personal, and for many people, it's not enough (they may feel all meat, no matter how the animals are raised, are immoral). But if your daughter objects to factory farming methods, she may wish to buy from non-factory farms. I don't eat much meat by American standards, but it all comes from farms I know and trust. I think eating meat might make it easier to have a healthy diet, and might be essential for some body types, but I don't think it's required for everyone.

I would be concerned about insulin resistance, based on the things you wrote, and think that looking at the Glycemic Index of foods might be your first stop. I don't think it's the last stop, by far, but it can help get you both steered in the right direction right away.

You ask, "Raw whole milk or skimmed?" My opinion is that skimmed milk is probably one of the worst things she could eat. By skimming the milk, you basically leave a sugary drink - not what she wants when she might be having insulin resistance problems. I'd say whole milk, and organic or at least something with fewer hormones and toxins (which is doubly important with whole milk, because that crud does end up in the fat). Personally, I'm also all for raw milk, but it's your decision. I'd say either raw whole milk from a quality, trusted farm, or organic whole milk from the store.

You ask, "Whole grains or avoid grains?" As someone who just went grain free and had very surprising results, I'm biased toward trying grain-free. However, I will say that it took me a few months of thinking about it and mulling it over before I actually tried. So definitely eliminate ALL white flour right away, that's something you can do without research or drastic dietary changes. But yes, grain-free is definitely something to seriously consider, at least as a trial.

You ask, "Limit fats or encourage good fats?" I've been careful to hedge my statements as opinions in my post, but I have to say, I think the science is in on this. I think it's as clear as it could be that limiting fats is a bad idea, and encouraging "good" fats is the way to go. I have personally lived this, I've seen it in other people. Limiting fats just doesn't work. It's just not good for us. I am eating absolutely as much avocado, coconut oil, bacon grease (from "pastured" pork), butter (from pastured cows), olives, etc as I want, and I am trimming down enough that people are noticing - which is really only a side point, the main point is that I'm feeling better, enough that exercise is now possible, energy is up, mental fog is clearing.

And if I might sneak in a book recommendation, here's one I haven't seen mentioned here yet but I think would be helpful for your family: Ultraprevention, by Mark Hyman and Mark Liponis (MDs).

[MAMom]

How about B-12 supplementation?  I've been seeing a nutritionist, and B-12 seems to have made a big difference for me with carb cravings.  And apparently B-12 deficiency can also cause anemia, so maybe there is a connection for her?

[Calliope84]

Has she been checked for hypothyroidism? Her TSH should be between .3-3.0

Second, could she be sensitive to dairy?

I have a lot of what your daughter has and it is caused by hypo and I think a dairy / soy sensitivity. I eat everything and still have to take a bunch of supplements. Of course I don't always eat great...

Everything has gotten a lot better for me since I had to cut dairy and soy because DD had an allergy... 

[SandraMort]

I don't have the test results handy, but I know they checked thyroid function and didn't mention anything about it.

As for dairy, anything's possible, especially since they mentioned allergies at the visit. She doesn't do a lot of soy, maybe a few times a month in the winter and as much as a couple of times a week in the summer.

[catnip]

I'm also wondering about food allergies, I have a friend whose daughter had a similar set of symptoms. Tests found allergies to wheat, corn, dairy, shellfish, walnuts and peanuts. Eliminating them dropped her BP, and improved all of the blood chemistry issues, and removing the allergens is also helping her lose weight.  Anemia is often a wheat allergy sign.

[Calliope84]

I was undiagnosed for around 6 years because my TSH was 4.5and the old lab values allow normal to be up to 5 or even 6!
 

Originally Posted by SandraMort 

I don't have the test results handy, but I know they checked thyroid function and didn't mention anything about it.

As for dairy, anything's possible, especially since they mentioned allergies at the visit. She doesn't do a lot of soy, maybe a few times a month in the winter and as much as a couple of times a week in the summer.