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Measles in Utah

post #1 of 54
Thread Starter 

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/51585608-78/measles-health-department-immunized.html.csp

No mention of vaccinated or not...

post #2 of 54

I am curious if anybody can find information on the vax status of this student or the other 2 probable cases.  All the news articles talk about how dangerous it is to not be vaxed, but none mention whether or not the people who are getting sick were vaxed, which, to me, implies that they were, and the health department seems to be operating under the assumption that there is no risk to those that are vaxed when it seems like in most outbreaks, some of the people who get sick are vaxed.

post #3 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post

I am curious if anybody can find information on the vax status of this student or the other 2 probable cases.  All the news articles talk about how dangerous it is to not be vaxed, but none mention whether or not the people who are getting sick were vaxed, which, to me, implies that they were, and the health department seems to be operating under the assumption that there is no risk to those that are vaxed when it seems like in most outbreaks, some of the people who get sick are vaxed.



There is only one other probable case - b/c the kid who has it must have been exposed, so at least one other person has it.  No one else has been diagnosed yet though.  (ETA - I re-read and thought this sounded confusing.  From my read of the article, it appears that there is one person who has been diagnosed and who KNOWS they have measles, and the other case is unknown entirely - but b/c the diagnosed person has not traveled out of Utah, there must be at least one other case in the state.)

 

Yes, in most outbreaks, some of the people who get sick are vaxed - thats b/c vaxes are not 100% effective.  Thats where herd immunity comes in.

post #4 of 54

Being an attenuated vaccine, MMR has a small risk of reversion to virulence.  It's a possibility that can't be ruled out at this stage.

post #5 of 54

It actually says on page 2 that the teen was not immunized.  But normally, if there is no mention in articles like these as to vax status, you can almost guarantee they were vaxed.  They will surely make it a huge deal that the child was not vaccinated of course and blow it out of proportion but when an outbreak is among the vaxed, it tends to be much more quiet.

 

Think about it, even if everyone in the entire country was vaxed against measles, there would still be outbreaks.  I believe there are always going to be outbreaks no matter what. Some diseases tend to circulate every couple of years or so, so we are always going to see them cycle, vax or no vax, especially when vaccines can cause the very same disease they are meant to protect against.


Edited by SilverMoon010 - 4/10/11 at 3:00pm
post #6 of 54

The teen is surrounded by people who vaccinate, so any one of those could have reverted to virulence or shed and given it to him.  Finding the source in cases like that would be almost impossible unless the original shedder had symptoms or was recently vaxed.

 

ETA - if it turns out s/he got it from a vaxed person, maybe s/he should sue.  JOKE! duck.gif

post #7 of 54
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post

It actually says on page 2 that the teen was not immunized.  But normally, if there is no mention in articles like these as to vax status, you can almost guarantee they were vaxed.  They will surely make it a huge deal that the child was not vaccinated of course and blow it out of proportion but when an outbreak is among the vaxed, it tends to be much more quiet.

 

Think about it, even if everyone in the entire country was vaxed against measles, there would still be outbreaks.  I believe there are always going to be outbreaks no matter what. Some diseases tend to circulate every couple of years or so, so we are always going to see them cycle, vax or no vax, especially when vaccines can cause the very same disease they are meant to protect against.

Wow. I don't know how I missed that! redface.gif Unless they added updates to the article...I swear I was searching for vax info on the boy. Eh, it was the end of the day when I posted this...I'm brain dead by that point.

This is a newer article...of course making it seem like pure hysteria. So far there is still only one confirmed case.

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705370206/More-than-150-contacted-2-new-cases-of-measles-discovered.html

*Interesting quote from the article:

"Individuals born prior to 1957 have natural immunity," she said. "They were exposed to it in the community. Since then, measles has not been common enough in the U.S. to generate natural immunity, therefore necessitating the vaccination."

We need to vaccinate because it's uncommon to find natural measles? Why since 1957? Is that when it started to drop off naturally? Vaccine shows up in 1963, so what made it less common in the 6 years between 1957 and 1963?

 


Edited by mamakah - 4/10/11 at 6:29pm
post #8 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakah View Post

*Interesting quote from the article:

"Individuals born prior to 1957 have natural immunity," she said. "They were exposed to it in the community. Since then, measles has not been common enough in the U.S. to generate natural immunity, therefore necessitating the vaccination."

We need to vaccinate because it's uncommon to find natural measles? Why since 1957? Is that when it started to drop off naturally? Vaccine shows up in 1963, so what made it less common in the 6 years between 1957 and 1963?

 


A child born in 1957 would have only been six when the vaccine was licensed.  While a lot of kids had already had measles by that age, others hadn't gotten it yet, and rates dropped quite drastically in just a few short years following the introduction of mass vaccination, so if they hadn't had it by that time, likely they wouldn't get measles at all.  A child born in 1962 almost certainly would not have had a chance to acquire measles naturally.  If anything, it speaks to just how prevalent measles was during the period from 1957-1963 that they assume that kids born in 1956 would have pretty much all had measles even though they would still have been under ten when mass vaccination caused measles to become rather scarce.  

post #9 of 54


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

There is only one other probable case - b/c the kid who has it must have been exposed, so at least one other person has it.


More recent articles are noting two more probable cases, friends/family of the teen who recently traveled outside the country, and their physician reported treating them for measles-like symptoms.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakah View Post


 

Wow. I don't know how I missed that! redface.gif Unless they added updates to the article...I swear I was searching for vax info on the boy. Eh, it was the end of the day when I posted this...I'm brain dead by that point.


The Salt Lake Tribune online often changes articles as they get more information, at least up until the point that they publish it.  I also read the article, scanning for vax status, and I remember that paragraph being worded differently.

post #10 of 54
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ View Post


 


 

 


 


The Salt Lake Tribune online often changes articles as they get more information, at least up until the point that they publish it.  I also read the article, scanning for vax status, and I remember that paragraph being worded differently.

Thank you!

Here is the latest news: more cases. The article states that 30% of measles cases have complications. Anyone know where this stat is coming from?

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/More-measles-cases-confirmed-in-Salt-Lake-County/1eTBPww4okK-aF6REbzvcA.cspx

 

post #11 of 54

 

 

 

Quote:
  1. Originally Posted by mamakah View Post


 

Thank you!

Here is the latest news: more cases. The article states that 30% of measles cases have complications. Anyone know where this stat is coming from?

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/More-measles-cases-confirmed-in-Salt-Lake-County/1eTBPww4okK-aF6REbzvcA.cspx

 


I would like to know where they are getting that from as well, because everywhere I have read, it states that serious complications from measles is very rare .  It's hard to say without seeing where they are pulling that number from and where the actual studies are coming from.  They don't elaborate (which they never do) so it seems suspicious to me that that is the true number.  Possibly a scare tactic.  I would like to see more data on that before I believe it.


Edited by SilverMoon010 - 4/12/11 at 1:26pm
post #12 of 54

The pink book quotes a 30% complication rate.

8% of which is diarrhea which is the most commonly reported complication.

7% is Otitis media (earache).

6% is Pneumonia.

Etc.

 

PDF

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/meas.pdf

post #13 of 54

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue View Post

The pink book quotes a 30% complication rate.

8% of which is diarrhea which is the most commonly reported complication.

7% is Otitis media (earache).

6% is Pneumonia.

Etc.

 

PDF

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/meas.pdf



Thanks for the info.  I didn't realize they were including diarrhea and earache in that number.   The article presented it as if the 30% consisted of all serious complications, which I knew couldn't be true. The usual...eyesroll.gif

 


Edited by SilverMoon010 - 4/12/11 at 3:53pm
post #14 of 54

I don't have time to read all of the CDC stuff, but it would be interesting to compare and contrast it with this article, which was published in the BMJ before the measles vaccine was routinely administered.  The article claims that there is a 1/15 complication rate from measles.  Otitis media is considered a complication, while diarrhea isn't. 

 

post #15 of 54
Thank you for that article.
post #16 of 54

From the same CDC link I posted earlier.

 

"Death from measles was reported in approximately 0.2% of the cases in the United States from 1985 through 1992......Since 1995, an average of 1 measles-related death per year has been reported."

 

I'd guess there are many cases of measles that never get reported.  I know that we didn't report Mumps or Chicken pox when our family had it, mostly cause it wasn't bad enough to warrant a doctors visit.

post #17 of 54

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/51615326-78/measles-case-cases-confirmed.html.csp

 

Here's another updated article, and finally, we have a couple intelligent commenters explaining some of the problems with the MMR, and of course, getting flamed by the other commenters.

post #18 of 54

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue View Post

From the same CDC link I posted earlier.

 

"Death from measles was reported in approximately 0.2% of the cases in the United States from 1985 through 1992......Since 1995, an average of 1 measles-related death per year has been reported."

 

I'd guess there are many cases of measles that never get reported.  I know that we didn't report Mumps or Chicken pox when our family had it, mostly cause it wasn't bad enough to warrant a doctors visit.


This is so true. 

 

With measles, you basically have to let it run its course as there is no real medical treatment required and not everyone seeks medical treatment unless of course there are complications.  So, really, the 30% they speak of is from only the reported/diagnosed cases. Who knows how many cases of measles goes unreported/undiagnosed.  The percentage of complications regarding measles will never be accurate because they are not taking it from the entire population.
 

 

post #19 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

Yes, in most outbreaks, some of the people who get sick are vaxed - thats b/c vaxes are not 100% effective.  Thats where herd immunity comes in.



In some outbreaks, MOST of the people are vaxed, which calls "herd immunity" into question.  I have more examples, but here's two to start.

 

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-08/health/mumps.outbreak.northeast_1_mumps-outbreak-vaccinated-cases?_s=PM:HEALTH

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/swcounty/article_cdd5eac3-2d89-54cd-b421-a668899709a4.html

post #20 of 54

I always wondered about the herd immunity thing because when talking about the MMR vaccine, if the vaccine is not 100% effective, and it does in fact shed, even if everyone in the world was vaccinated against measles, it can still be spread between the vaccinated population.  Shedding from newly vaccinated people and thus infecting others where there is vaccine failure (not 100% effective)  So, is there ever a such thing as herd immunity in that case?  Also, it doesn't confer life-long immunity either, so unless everyone continues getting vaccinated for it throughout their entire lifetime (certainly not promoting that), there will never be a said herd immunity.  I could be totally off base but that's how I see it.  Sometimes I wonder if we are keeping the virus contained in the country by the vaccination. As long as we continue vaccinating with MMR, the measles virus (vaccine virus) will always be within our community and will continue to circulate and resurface.


Edited by SilverMoon010 - 4/13/11 at 8:22am
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