Just venting...teacher frustration - Page 2

[blessedwithboys]

Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl 

Originally Posted by stik 

Showing your ds your antagonistic correspondence here undermines the notion that you expect his behavior to meet certain standards.  

I completely agree with you that the teacher is wrong.  She's very, very wrong.  You know it.  She's not going to whip out a newly published account from Anonymous's parents explaining that every word in the book is actually completely verifiable and unembellished.  She will remain wrong unless she follows up on your sources and changes her mind.  

She has no reason to do that.  You're asking the teacher to demonstrate the depth of her wrongness so your son can benefit from an exercise in critical thinking which is, somewhat unusually for the higher order thinking skills, based on material that you prefer he not view and evaluate for himself.  That's not a good use of her time.  

If you can make yourself do it, write her a nice note apologizing for getting carried away and tell your son that you over-stepped.  I realize that might be impossible for a variety of reasons, but it would be the polite thing.  

Are you serious? How about establishing an iota of professionalism as being a reason she should admit she was wrong. She is asking things of her students she refuses to do herself. Her authority has already been undermined by her own behavior, NOT the behavior of the OP.

Thank you Chamomile Girl!
 

I can't believe how much people tend to assume sometimes.  The year began with the teacher being unkind to my son because he fell asleep in her class.  She assumed it was rudeness.  I told him to just ignore the tone of her voice and do his best to get along with her.  Does someone really disagree with that?!  I sure hope not.  Eventually, the sleeping in school got so bad that we took him for a sleep study and found he has narcolepsy.  She still bitches at him for dozing off.  I certainyl could have run down to the school and whined and cried and had him pulled from her class, but I didn't.  I gave my almost-adult son ownership of the issue, and he's done surprisingly well in trying to get along with her.  He still snips, but that's just his personality.  I have one time made him write a note of apology after they clashed and he has apologized without prompting several other times.  He is a sarcastic person and she is not.  He is intellectually gifted and she is not.  She can't relate to him and he doesn't like her because he feels she didn't like him first.  I still mostly stayed out of it until one day I had had enough of her bullsh!t emails complaining about him acting spacy and sleepy.  Everyone has their breaking point and I certainly have mine.  I wrote her a very polite and eloquent email to let her know that it was obvious that she and ds were not exactly well-matched in personality and sense of humor, and that was ok, but I expected him to show her respect.  Beyond that, I couldn't force him to like or admire anyone and I couldn't force her to like or understand my son.  That's a problem?  Really?

I don't feel jumped on, but I do think it's ironically funny that in one thread I get both questioned for making him privy to an "adult" argument and questioned for "censoring" hsi reading material.  LOL

And FTR, he wasn't being censored.  We looked together to see what the books on the list were about and he didn't want to read about a 15 year old being brutally and sadistically raped.  We are a Christian family and that sort of stuff just isn't entertainment to us.  However, we are not prudish.  I talk to my kids about sex and drugs all the time.  But I want them inculcated with my principles, not the teachers, so sex education is taken care of at home.  He's 16, he knows what rape is and he chooses not to read a book about it.  Do other 16yo's really enjoy reading about rape?

[stik]

I don't think you're wrong about the book or about the larger issue with the teacher, I just think there is nothing to gain (and possibly much to lose) by continuing to argue with her about Go Ask Alice.    

[blessedwithboys]

Nothing to gain except self-satisfaction.  LOL  And nothing to lose.  Ds will likely not be in regular school next year bc his sleepiness is so uncontrolled.  And teacher turn-over is unbelievable at our school so even if he stays she'll likely be gone.  Makes the self-satisfaction totally worth it to me!  :)

[ecoteat]

Originally Posted by blessedwithboys 

Nothing to gain except self-satisfaction.  LOL  And nothing to lose.  Ds will likely not be in regular school next year bc his sleepiness is so uncontrolled.  And teacher turn-over is unbelievable at our school so even if he stays she'll likely be gone.  Makes the self-satisfaction totally worth it to me!  :)

Fair enough.

And no, I don't think 16 year olds typically enjoy or are entertained by reading about rape (or other difficult subjects). But enjoyment is not the only reason to read a book, of course!

[stik]

There are 16-year-olds who "enjoy" (not quite the right word, but they will seek it out and appreciate it) reading about rape, and not because they're sick little puppies.  There's sort of an unofficial genre within YA - publishers refer to it as "trauma porn."  Despite the hideous name, it serves an important purpose for a few audiences:

1 - Readers who have experienced trauma and are looking for models of how to deal with it.

2 - Readers who want to be reassured that their life isn't actually that bad.

3 - Readers who are trying to develop empathy for other people's problems.  

None of those are horrible things to get out of a book.  I tend to think that a lot of these books are still not great choices for classroom discussion, especially when they contain wildly sensational depictions of trauma.  But I can see a defense for educational value.  I haven't seen a good one made here, but I can see one.  

[sapphire_chan]

If the teacher really wanted to defend the book, she would've come up with a better answer than "it's been around a long time".  Especially if she's really got a background in literature.

Your ds needs a diagnosis and a 504, yesterday. And then he needs his own copy of the 504 so he can just hold it up when the teacher starts nagging about a medical condition.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by blessedwithboys 

And FTR, he wasn't being censored.  We looked together to see what the books on the list were about and he didn't want to read about a 15 year old being brutally and sadistically raped.  We are a Christian family and that sort of stuff just isn't entertainment to us.  However, we are not prudish.  I talk to my kids about sex and drugs all the time.  But I want them inculcated with my principles, not the teachers, so sex education is taken care of at home.  He's 16, he knows what rape is and he chooses not to read a book about it.  Do other 16yo's really enjoy reading about rape?

Fair enough - I was just curious as I've never heard it phrased the way you did. And it did sound like censorship - my bad. As for "enjoying" a book about rape? That's as silly as asking if my daughter "enjoyed" reading about the Holocaust. One can read books for many reasons - enjoyment is only one of them.

Originally Posted by blessedwithboys 

Nothing to gain except self-satisfaction.  LOL  And nothing to lose.  Ds will likely not be in regular school next year bc his sleepiness is so uncontrolled.  And teacher turn-over is unbelievable at our school so even if he stays she'll likely be gone.  Makes the self-satisfaction totally worth it to me!  :)

And, see... to me this doesn't exactly paint an overly "Christian" attitude. <shrug>
 

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by stik 

There are 16-year-olds who "enjoy" (not quite the right word, but they will seek it out and appreciate it) reading about rape, and not because they're sick little puppies.  There's sort of an unofficial genre within YA - publishers refer to it as "trauma porn."  Despite the hideous name, it serves an important purpose for a few audiences:

1 - Readers who have experienced trauma and are looking for models of how to deal with it.

2 - Readers who want to be reassured that their life isn't actually that bad.

3 - Readers who are trying to develop empathy for other people's problems.  

None of those are horrible things to get out of a book.  I tend to think that a lot of these books are still not great choices for classroom discussion, especially when they contain wildly sensational depictions of trauma.  But I can see a defense for educational value.  I haven't seen a good one made here, but I can see one.  

Agree. I think there is far, far too much emphasis in school curricula on using literature heavily laden with moral lessons to hammer values and virtue into children. I dislike seeing a syllabus with a lengthy list of "good-for-building-character" books. There is an important place, however, for providing a window into the wide experience of humanity and an opportunity to explore other lives. I've known 16 y.o.'s who were profoundly moved and touched by Laure Halse Anderson's Speak, an emotionally grueling book about the aftermath of rape, even though they didn't "enjoy" it. It may not be a book for every 16 y.o., but it is definitely an important book for some. 

It's been decades since I read Go Ask Alice. I suspect that in the past 40 years, much better books have become available about adolescents, drug use and sex, if that is the moralizing that this teacher wants to inflict on her class. 

[Annie Mac]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

Agree. I think there is far, far too much emphasis in school curricula on using literature heavily laden with moral lessons to hammer values and virtue into children. I dislike seeing a syllabus with a lengthy list of "good-for-building-character" books. There is an important place, however, for providing a window into the wide experience of humanity and an opportunity to explore other lives. I've known 16 y.o.'s who were profoundly moved and touched by Laure Halse Anderson's Speak, an emotionally grueling book about the aftermath of rape, even though they didn't "enjoy" it. It may not be a book for every 16 y.o., but it is definitely an important book for some. 

It's been decades since I read Go Ask Alice. I suspect that in the past 40 years, much better books have become available about adolescents, drug use and sex, if that is the moralizing that this teacher wants to inflict on her class. 

Totally agree! It is interesting though, that I don't remember a rape in that book at all. Apparently, I just glossed over it & forgot it in favour of the interesting aspects of living in San Fran in the 60s/70s (whenever it was set).  Now, Evelyn Lau's Runaway, that one I found a bit disturbing -- but I was an adult when I read it. Sorry! OT! Can't resist a book discussion :)

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

If the teacher really wanted to defend the book, she would've come up with a better answer than "it's been around a long time".  Especially if she's really got a background in literature.

I completely agree, but I'd imagine the teacher has written off the OP and her son and figures there's no real need to continue to engage the OP about the book because her son's not even reading it.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

I completely agree, but I'd imagine the teacher has written off the OP and her son and figures there's no real need to continue to engage the OP about the book because her son's not even reading it.

You're probably right, but to me it sounded like she was dismissing the concerns about the book because she was trying to convince the OP's son to read the book so she didn't have to come up with a second set of lesson plans.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

You're probably right, but to me it sounded like she was dismissing the concerns about the book because she was trying to convince the OP's son to read the book so she didn't have to come up with a second set of lesson plans.

Maybe. In real life, I'm not actually very sympathetic to teachers who cannot make their argument well, but I can get in this case why the teacher may just want to throw in the towel on this particular problem.

[blessedwithboys]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

I completely agree, but I'd imagine the teacher has written off the OP and her son and figures there's no real need to continue to engage the OP about the book because her son's not even reading it.

No, actually she has emailed me two more times but I haven't opened the emails yet because I don't want to continue this stupid fight.  After venting my frustration here, I just sort of don't care about it anymore.  Maybe once school is out for summer I'll go back and read them and laugh. *shrug*

[ecoteat]

Originally Posted by blessedwithboys 

No, actually she has emailed me two more times but I haven't opened the emails yet because I don't want to continue this stupid fight.  After venting my frustration here, I just sort of don't care about it anymore.  Maybe once school is out for summer I'll go back and read them and laugh. *shrug*

So you were bothered that she wasn't responding to you about this in a satisfactory way and now she's emailed you twice and you won't even read them? No wonder she didn't want to bother discussing this with you in the first place.

[4myfinn]

Originally Posted by blessedwithboys 


He is a sarcastic person and she is not.  He is intellectually gifted and she is not.  

I'm sorry, but how in the world can you justify a statement like this?  I agree that she is wrong about the book.  She probably also knows she's wrong and is too proud or stubborn to admit it.  But do you really know enough about her to claim that she is dim-witted, or at the very least not "intellectually gifted"?   

 

[Kirsten]

Originally Posted by blessedwithboys 

I wrote her a very polite and eloquent email to let her know that it was obvious that she and ds were not exactly well-matched in personality and sense of humor, and that was ok, but I expected him to show her respect.  Beyond that, I couldn't force him to like or admire anyone and I couldn't force her to like or understand my son.  That's a problem?  Really?

 

It wouldn't have been a problem if you'd stopped after the first sentence.  The general feeling of all the comments you've made in the thread is negative; I don't think you can expect anything positive or even neutral from it.  Sarcasm works in certain situations and with certain people - and a 16 year old should be able to know when and where that might work or be appropriate (with a school classroom likely not being an appropriate place).  And playing a video game after being given the kind option of playing music should not result in shock or claims of unfair treatment when the teacher shuts it down.  Where the teacher DOES seem to be in the wrong is in regards to your son's sleep disorder.  Does she have paperwork from his pediatrician or the sleep specialist?  Trouble is, you have made a point of insulting her (telling her "my kid doesn't like or admire you and I won't make him" and "they aren't well-matched in sense of humor" when he is using sarcasm in class - which I would not support my kid in doing as it feels disrespectful to me) so it is only human nature that you and your son are now not the people she most wants to deal with in a positive nature, though it is her job to try to do so.  I doubt anyone would have an easy time of it given the situation.  I'd let the whole thing go - with your son and the teacher.  Nothing good will come of it. 

 

[cloe]

I wonder who determined it was an eloquent email.