Bizarre incident with our dogs. . .please read now.

[AAK]

So, our two dogs play with each other a lot!  They are litter mates and about 9 months old now.  Well, tonight somehow Rosie's mouth got hooked on Scamp's collar and they were quite literally stuck.  My dh noticed them making an odd sound (everyone was outside, I wasn't home) and went to investigate.  He couldn't get them apart and Scamp seemed to be choking.  DH yelled for the girls to grab a knife.  When they finally did, dh cut the collar off the dog.  During this mess, one of the dog's was bleeding but we can't figure out who/where.  It was only a little bit.  Both dogs are walking, drinking, etc now though our female (Rosie) won't come near my dh and she is not happy with Scamp either!  But, she is very sensitive to noise and we figure that dh yelling for the girls to help probably jarred her.  

My only real concern is with Scamp.  He seems normal and then will stop and act like he is gagging or retching.  He is drinking and will eat treats and walks around.  He is upset too, but not nearly as much as Rosie.  If there was something seriously wrong (that needed medical attention asap) would there be any signs?

Amy

[Ldavis24]

this has happened to my dog with my mother's...she has actually dragged the other collar off the dog..

Gagging and retching? Interesting but not terribly note worthy if you are sure he didn't injest something bad. Is he the dog that had the collar being pulled on by the other dog? If so his throat might just be sore from being yanked on so hard. Unless he is having an obvious hard time breathing and wheezing hard with each breath I don't think I'd worry about it too much. He is eating and drinking so that is a plus...

[AAK]

Thank you for your response.  I wanted to make sure there wasn't something I was missing.  The dog who was gagging/retching was the one being choked.  This morning, they both seem better.  No one is gagging anymore, they are both eating/drinking, and they are playing (a bit) with one another.  They both seem to have forgiven my husband.  They are still behaving oddly with each other--very cautiously like they don't want to offend the other. 

Amy

[greenmagick]

I would just keep a close eye and make sure it doesnt get worse, but most likely it is just sore and strained.  

However, this is a lesson for ALL...DO NOT LEAVE COLLARS ON DOGS WHILE PLAYING!  It is a very common occurence (dogs getting tangled up in them) and often the outcome is way worse.  My mom lost a pup this way...littermates playing together and when the collar got stuck in the females mouth, the male flipped around and broke his neck.  My mom and stepdad were literally right there but there was nothing they could do.

[AAK]

Originally Posted by greenmagick 

However, this is a lesson for ALL...DO NOT LEAVE COLLARS ON DOGS WHILE PLAYING! 

No kidding!  We were taking it off before they went to "bed" (crate trained) even though I had a hard time seeing how the crate was so dangerous.  But now, we just don't have the dogs wearing collars at all.  They play with each other a lot!  We use a harness for walking them, and they have been micro chipped.  This was too scary.  Both dogs still seem ok now.  The one that was being strangled broke some vessels in the whites of his eyes (guessing from the strain).  He isn't wheezing anymore and he doesn't mind us stroking his throat/neck.  They both still seem a bit shaken by the ordeal.  They play together (still) but it seems different--more cautious. . . they back off more now.

Amy

[greenmagick]

So glad they are doing ok.  (((hugs)))

I do leave collars on mine sometimes but only because they are very far apart in age and when they do play (which is seldom) its not mouthy and bitey and they dont do collar grabs.  When my dane was a pup she would a bit so my mix went collarless.  But when you have dogs close in age and playstyle includes collar grabbing, yes, just go without!  

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by AAK 

My only real concern is with Scamp.  He seems normal and then will stop and act like he is gagging or retching. 

This can be stress induced. One of our dogs did this off and on during our process of moving out of state. He eventually stopped after he was well settled into our new home but it was a gradual process. He would just do it randomly and the frequency decreased over time until it finally stopped.

Our dogs do not wear collars at home, period unless they are having a training session and then it comes off right after.

[Ldavis24]

Glad the pups are doing well!

I'm sure they will warm back up to eachother soon, just learned a very valuable lesson is all. Something actually stuck in their brains for more than 10 seconds!

The whole collar thing is tough for me to reconcile in my own mind.

I am really against not having a collar on your dog when it is outside and not fenced in a secure yard. We ALWAYS make sure our dog has a collar on when she is outside, even though she is microchipped. The reason for that being it is very hard to stop a dog without something to grab onto. You can throw your arms around them but what if you need to walk them away from something, a collar is crucial in that area. 

As far at home, we keep the collar off inside the house and especially if she goes in the crate.

I wouldn't suggest taking a dog's collar off outside. if someone or you needs to grab your dog it is the easiest and safest way.

[greenmagick]

If you have two dogs, yes, it is much safer to have no collar outside.  You can scruff a dog if needed or if you are really worried, carry a slip lead on you.  But if two dogs are out in the yard playing, that is where the HIGHEST chance of something happening is as most dogs play much harsher and rougher outside.  

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by greenmagick 

If you have two dogs, yes, it is much safer to have no collar outside.  You can scruff a dog if needed or if you are really worried, carry a slip lead on you.  But if two dogs are out in the yard playing, that is where the HIGHEST chance of something happening is as most dogs play much harsher and rougher outside.  

This is exactly why my dog wears a collar outside specifically and not indoors. 

She is big and I have scruffed her but she can break free of my tightest scruff.

She plays very rough, sometimes too rough with the neighbor's big dog and it is way safer for humans to reach into the fray and grab a collar as opposed to simply try to pull 2 dogs apart from each other by grabbing onto them. 
I simply will disagree that it is safer for EVERYONE to have dogs with no collars outside. It might be safer for the dogs in the offchance that they get tangled but I have been bitten more than once in my life by breaking dogs up who were just playing roughly and didn't notice my hands. If I didn't have a collar to grab onto what am I supposed to do with a dog over a hundred pounds? Pull it back by the hips? Not safe.

Also a collar can help other people who come into contact with your dog. It gives them something to grab onto if your dog jumps on them or they need to restrain it and aren't comfortable scruffing or wrapping their arms around the chest of a dog they don't know. I have needed to restrain dog's (from running into the road or something) who I didn't know before and having a collar makes it safer for everyone involved. 

The incidence of dog's getting their collars tangled in the other's mouths are rare (I have only seen it a couple times in my lifetime of owning dogs) and a dog breaking their neck in play from a tangled collar is horrible and tragic but incredibly rare.

[greenmagick]

Everyone does most definitely need to make that call for themselves...however, I would not call it rare, especially in littermates and same age dogs.  I see it happen fairly often on dog forums.  Thats why daycares do not allow collars and trust me, they do have to break up fights and too rough play.  Again, I would just carry a slip lead if that was the issue...(and my dog is a dane so not little, I can grab her scruff and control her if needed and I am only5'1")

Grabbing a collar is a good way to get bit in the middle of a fight too...most dogs react to that.  

Again, not trying to argue as everyone has to make up their own mind based on their circumstances.  I even stated that my two dogs are often allowed to wear collars outside because of their (lack of) play style.  However, if I had two dogs who were both collar grabbers, no way would they wear them.

[Lula's Mom]

Totally, I would not reach in to grab a collar in a dog fight.  You are way too close to snapping mouths. My two dogs fought often (one of them was a very dog aggressive American Bulldog, we finally had to put him down, the other a Pit Bull).  The only safe way to get them apart was to grab them by the hindquarters and pull in opposite directions. They were not human aggressive and would not turn and bite you even in a fight, but my husband was accidentally bitten twice by putting his hand near their heads.  I don't know what I would do to break it up if I didn't know the dogs weren't going to turn and get me on purpose, though. Some dogs will do that.

[AAK]

Good debate on the collar/no collar thing.  But, to clarify. . . my dogs are in a very secure back yard (more so than ever since they did escape once by digging!)  Their escape is what prompted the collars--so that someone had something to grab onto.  For us, making the back yard more secure by adding cement border around the fence was a better option.

I would LOVE it if the dogs would hang out with us in our front yard.  I have this "vision" of everyone playing, washing the car, dogs frolicking, etc.  Unfortunately, so far, this isn't even close to happening.  Our dogs love to run.  If they would stay near, they would have a lot of space to run (our house is set back on 3 acres) before coming to a street. . . but they won't.  So, unless they are in the back yard, they are wearing their harnesses and a lead.  

Amy