Question about ADHD and motivation

[darien]

I've posted about my 6 year old ds' troubles at school before-- his teacher wanted him assessed for behavior issues.  He is doing fine academically.

The psychologist assessing him thinks he doesn't have ADHD, but he does have some of the behaviors.  He asked me if ds is able to persist in tasks that he finds boring or worthless.  I wasn't sure how to answer.  Ds is not a "people pleaser."  He's not likely to comply with something he doesn't see value in just because someone else wants him to.  That said, if you make it clear to ds that he must do something, or promise a reward he wants, he can complete a boring task.

It seems to me that this is more a question of personality than ability.  I thought that being unable to complete tasks-- not unwilling-- was key to ADHD.  I don't think I'm in denial about ds having ADHD, or anything.  Am I drawing a line that isn't really there?

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by darien 

The psychologist assessing him thinks he doesn't have ADHD, but he does have some of the behaviors.  He asked me if ds is able to persist in tasks that he finds boring or worthless.  I wasn't sure how to answer.  Ds is not a "people pleaser."  He's not likely to comply with something he doesn't see value in just because someone else wants him to.  That said, if you make it clear to ds that he must do something, or promise a reward he wants, he can complete a boring task.

This describes my ds but he has an ADHD diagnosis, from a psychiatrist and a behavior clinic at a children's hospital .

It seems to me that this is more a question of personality than ability.  I thought that being unable to complete tasks-- not unwilling-- was key to ADHD.  I don't think I'm in denial about ds having ADHD, or anything.  Am I drawing a line that isn't really there?

 

Having ADHD does not mean that they are incapable of completing ANY task, just that they avoid or dislike tasks that require sustained mental effort, such as schoolwork or homework.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adhd/DS00275/DSECTION=symptoms

 

[darien]

Thanks, Emmeline II.  I know it's not that kids with ADHD can't complete any tasks-- the diagnosis sure would be clear cut if that was true! 

It's the motivation part that has me confused.  If ds could do some task, but just doesn't want to, is that a sign of ADHD, or a sign that he's not interested in doing the task?

He is capable of sustained mental effort/schoolwork, fwiw.  For example, he (for some reason) loves his reading workbook, and will happily do several pages of comprehension exercises (correctly).  Ask him to do something he's decided he doesn't like, and it will take forever + lots of whining.  The subject and difficulty level don't seem to be deciding factors for him, either. 

Does your ds have ADHD behaviors other than the ones in my last post?  My ds is very energetic, but he'll also spend long periods playing or reading quietly.

[melissa17s]

There are different types of ADHD.  It is not necessary to have all the symptoms to be diagnosed. http://www.chadd.org/Content/CHADD/Understanding/Symptoms/default.htm

Did the psychologist give him a neuropsych exam?  Maybe try to follow up with the psych as to what he thinks you need to do both in school and at home to help resolve his behaviors regardless of whether or not he has adhd. Does he need counseling, behavior modification, etc. to be a better student?  You may also want to consult more specialized doctors, if you are not finding answers with this psychologist.  

[darien]

Originally Posted by melissa17s 

There are different types of ADHD.  It is not necessary to have all the symptoms to be diagnosed. http://www.chadd.org/Content/CHADD/Understanding/Symptoms/default.htm

Did the psychologist give him a neuropsych exam?  Maybe try to follow up with the psych as to what he thinks you need to do both in school and at home to help resolve his behaviors regardless of whether or not he has adhd. Does he need counseling, behavior modification, etc. to be a better student?  You may also want to consult more specialized doctors, if you are not finding answers with this psychologist.  

Yeah, I know it's a continuum.  I'm just obsessing on this one facet!    I'm not seeing how avoiding boring things is a symptom.  I mean, don't we all do that, if we can get away with it?

I think the psych is doing all he's supposed to-- I'm just curious about the whole process of diagnosis.

[Guinevere]

Originally Posted by darien 

Thanks, Emmeline II.  I know it's not that kids with ADHD can't complete any tasks-- the diagnosis sure would be clear cut if that was true! 

It's the motivation part that has me confused.  If ds could do some task, but just doesn't want to, is that a sign of ADHD, or a sign that he's not interested in doing the task?

He is capable of sustained mental effort/schoolwork, fwiw.  For example, he (for some reason) loves his reading workbook, and will happily do several pages of comprehension exercises (correctly).  Ask him to do something he's decided he doesn't like, and it will take forever + lots of whining.  The subject and difficulty level don't seem to be deciding factors for him, either. 

Does your ds have ADHD behaviors other than the ones in my last post?  My ds is very energetic, but he'll also spend long periods playing or reading quietly.

My oldest DS has ADD (no H) and before meds, he also frequently eschewed any schoolwork that didn't capture his interest. BTW, he is also capable of sustained attention and focus when it's something he loves. In fact, that is often a hallmark of ADD: it's called hyperfocus and basically means that he can shut out everything and spend lots of time and energy on things he really enjoys, to the detriment of all else. And what he doesn't enjoy, he gives absolutely no effort or attention to whatsoever. Now that he's on meds, he will now sit down with minimal complaint and finish up an academic task, like math workbook, for example, that doesn't thrill him. That is a MAJOR change from before.

My 10 yo DD, in contrast, also has things she prefers to do, but she never outright refuses to do things she likes less. In fact, she'll often choose to get her least favorite academic subjects out of the way first so she can spend more time on those she enjoys more. She's quite methodical that way, and provides a ready-made contrast to my DS's behaviors that was helpful in letting me know that not all children respond to schoolwork the way he did.

Hope this helps a bit! :)

Kind regards,

Guin

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by darien 

It's the motivation part that has me confused.  If ds could do some task, but just doesn't want to, is that a sign of ADHD, or a sign that he's not interested in doing the task?

Everyone has things that they don't want to do. I think that the difference is the effort it takes to get them to do it. Before my son was medicated, no behavior chart/reward could get him to do his work.

He is capable of sustained mental effort/schoolwork, fwiw.  For example, he (for some reason) loves his reading workbook, and will happily do several pages of comprehension exercises (correctly).  Ask him to do something he's decided he doesn't like, and it will take forever + lots of whining.  The subject and difficulty level don't seem to be deciding factors for him, either. 

If he likes to do it then it's not an "effort." Playing LegoStarwars takes more effort than I am willing to put into it, but my son will play for hours no matter how many times R2D2 falls down the black hole thingy before he gets where he needs to go.

Originally Posted by darien 
Does your ds have ADHD behaviors other than the ones in my last post?  My ds is very energetic, but he'll also spend long periods playing or reading quietly.

My son can spend long periods playing or reading quietly, even before he was medicated. But he could also be impulsive, inattentive, and hyperactive. All children are impulsive, inattentive, and hyperactive sometimes, it's when it occurs to a point that it interferes with the "normal" operation of their day that it indicates that there may be a problem.

I went back and read a couple of your other posts about your son.  Is the psychologist he's seeing now the same one that thinks your ds is behaving negatively because he gets so much attention for it? If so, I would move on. 

I still think that you should do a more comprehensive evaluation with a behavior clinic, for your older child as well for whom I think ADHD-Inattentive is a possibility. They can help you sort through the sensory/behavior/gifted issues, what is "average", what fits into a particular diagnosis, and make recommendations--it's more than a psychologist can do. That evaluation can also be helpful in dealing with their school which seems to have "its" own ideas as to their issues. An adult at school once implied to your 6yo that he didn't have a conscience--what she may have been seeing is a lack of empathy which isn't unusual with ADHD and can improve with time and therapy. Social issues also fit (and are thought to cause the apparent lack of empathy) --my son has problems with social reciprocity and pragmatics; he is getting an evaluation with a speech therapist next week (his actual ability to speak is fine). My son is also going to an audiologist this month for an evaluation for CAPD. The ST and CAPD evaluations came from recommendations resulting from his evaluation at the behavior clinic.

 

About ADHD: Hyperfocus | ADDitude - Attention Deficit Information ...

Edited by Emmeline II - 4/9/11 at 9:36pm

[darien]

Thank you, Melissa, Guin and Emmeline.  You're very helpful!

Ye gods, I read that article about hyperfocus, and now I think both my kids and I may be ADD.  We definitely all can hyperfocus!  No one ever suggested I had ADD, though (my sister has ADHD).  No one suggested it about my older ds, either.  Hmm.

This may explain a lot about my ex-husband, actually.  He would sit at his computer almost every waking hour-- getting tons of work done, and ignoring his family.

Ds1 is seeing the same psych as ds2-- for his social anxiety.  He actually really likes the doc and has made good improvement, socially.

I will look into a behavior clinic-- though I don't know where I'm going to get the $$ for this. 

My ds loves playing Lego Indiana Jones.  It bores the pants off me!