Aren't They Lucky I'm There at All? (Rant)

[Turquesa]

I take my children to well child check-ups for two reasons.  First, I believe that doctors can pick up on things that parents can’t.  Second, I selectively vaccinate my children, which requires a visit to the doctor.  (Even our county health department doesn’t do “walk-ins”; you have do to the new patient paperwork, ordering charts and records, setting appointments. Etc.)

But I have to say that I’m really starting to envy the non-vaxers who never go to well-child check-ups.  They don’t have to deal with the whole rigmarole of long waits and patronizing questions (“You do play with your baby, right?,” “Do you know that the crib is the only safe place for sleeping?”)  And the absolute worst are the Bad Mommy Lectures re: alternative vax choices.           

I took DS in this week and got him only two of the CDC-recommended vaccines.  The nurse responded to this vax request with a lot of huffing, sighing, and eye-rolling.  The doctor actually didn’t hassle me at all.  (Woo-hoo!!)  Then I asked about how to get out of the state registry.  Nobody there was sure.  I left elated that I had escaped the notorious Bad Mommy Lecture!  But….that’s not the end of the story.   

When I got home, there was a message on my machine from a nurse to call about how to get my name off the registry.  I called back, got the info, and thanked her.  Then the Bad Mommy Lecture started.  My children were being noisy, so I only caught portions of it--------“horrible diseases,” “children in danger,” “doom and gloom”…. I cut her off by saying, “Well, these are complex decisions for every parent to make.  Gotta go!” 

So reflecting on this experience, here is my question: Aren’t they lucky I’m there at all?

I could just make like the non-vaxers by NOT vaccinating for any of the diseases and NOT getting regular preventative health care for my children.  Is that what providers would like to see???  Because lemme tell you, this selective vaxing thing is proving to be a royal PITA!   If they want to see ANY vaxing done, shouldn't they roll out the red carpet, welcome me to the clinic, and accommodate my wishes?   They should remain humbly aware that I don't have to be there...

Also, this doctor came highly recommended by my non-vaxxing friends.  But then, they only go in for non-vax related stuff and not well child checks.  Also, they probably didn’t encounter the same staff.  Do any of you delayed/selective vaxers face harassment and Bad Mommy Lectures for your choices? 

[Chamomile Girl]

Well I've pretty lucky as a non-vaxer who had taken my kid to every well-baby visit that my ped has given us no flack at all. However our office has a bad-parent checklist you have to fill out before each visit...and that totally cracks me up. Its like the doctors got tired of asking the questions so now they just have to scan a page.

CHeck on the left side? Good parent!
Check on the right side? BAD parent!

Our ped knows our hippie dippie ways (and is very sympathetic to things like co-sleeping which she does with her own kids too) but the nurses are often the clueless ones. Almost every nurse I have run into there has never seen a cloth diaper ("Take off all his clothes but his diaper and put him on the scale. I'm sorry hon, you need to take off all his clothes....).

But lucky me I have so far managed to escape the bad mommy lecture due to vaccines. I have on the other hand had to go head to head with "professionals" over breastfeeding (specifically over breastmilk being a "clear liquid" or being more suitable than freaking pediasure for a vomiting kid. WTF?).

[MsFortune]

Aren’t they lucky I’m there at all?
++++

No, because you are there for your kids, not for them.

[earthmama369]

We don't vax. We go to every well-child visit. One doesn't necessarily equal the other.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by MsFortune 

Aren’t they lucky I’m there at all?
++++

No, because you are there for your kids, not for them.

You'd think.  But if they truly believe in children's health care--and vaccinations--they shouldn't take for granted that I'm bringing my kids there.

[mytwomonkies]

I totally feel your frustration. I agree, doctors should be happy that we even consider vaccinating at all! If they're not willing to work with mothers on the issue then they're just going to push them into not vaccinating at all. 

I used to get really frustrated after doctor's visits but I've learned to just not discuss much unless there's a problem I feel needs to be discussed. We're in the process of finding a new ped but with our first one I never discussed anything like sleeping habits or anything that wasn't medically related, our well visits literally took a few minutes and we were on our way. I feel that peds try to give way too much parenting advice and that they should just stick to the medical stuff.

[Sarahfeena]

Originally Posted by MsFortune 

Aren’t they lucky I’m there at all?
++++

No, because you are there for your kids, not for them.

Yeah, I think it's kind of bizarre that you're framing it this way.  Your KIDS are lucky that you're taking them to the doctor, why should it matter to the doctor more than it matters to you?  It's your responsibility to care for your children, and taking them for well visits is part of that.  And all the "lecturing" and "patronizing questions" are really just the medical personnel trying to do what's best for your kids, which is their job and the reason you bring the kids there in the first place.  If you decide in a snit that you're not going to darken the clinic's door again, it's your kids who suffer for it, not the clinic.

[MamaofLiam]

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena 

Yeah, I think it's kind of bizarre that you're framing it this way.  Your KIDS are lucky that you're taking them to the doctor, why should it matter to the doctor more than it matters to you?  It's your responsibility to care for your children, and taking them for well visits is part of that.  And all the "lecturing" and "patronizing questions" are really just the medical personnel trying to do what's best for your kids, which is their job and the reason you bring the kids there in the first place.  If you decide in a snit that you're not going to darken the clinic's door again, it's your kids who suffer for it, not the clinic.

I don't think that was her point. I believe her point was just to vent that she wishes they would be more supportive of her decision to selectively vaccinate and not cram it down her throat. She's just venting. Now you're lecturing her. Geez... ease up! 

P.S. I'm guessing you and MsFortune don't selectively vax or you might empathize a little bit.

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena 

Yeah, I think it's kind of bizarre that you're framing it this way.  Your KIDS are lucky that you're taking them to the doctor, why should it matter to the doctor more than it matters to you?  It's your responsibility to care for your children, and taking them for well visits is part of that.  And all the "lecturing" and "patronizing questions" are really just the medical personnel trying to do what's best for your kids, which is their job and the reason you bring the kids there in the first place.  If you decide in a snit that you're not going to darken the clinic's door again, it's your kids who suffer for it, not the clinic.

*Gasp* laughing so hard I can't breathe. Wow. You have a lot of faith in the medical establishment...which is your choice but please don't make the assumption that faith in doctors is what makes one a good parent. It is laughable and condescending.

Actually I think my kid would probably be better off without me taking him to the doctor as he is more likely to come home with something nasty due to all the sick kids in the waiting room. I know that OP feels like she would be better off without all the ignorant speechifying from the staff. Medical personnel push vaccines because it is their job to do so...to achieve the all elusive "herd mentality" and because some doctors get freaking bonuses if they can show complete vaccination rates. It has very little to do with the well being of your individual child (who you know lots better than they do) and more to do with the belief in a general ideology.

I think that the OP has a very good point here which is if doctors want you to buy into their belief system they had better start actually treating you like an equal in your child's care. Which you are. Having a medical degree does not make one the expert in all things medical (any more than having a PhD in history makes one the expert in everything historic) and acting like some kind of all-encompassing authority will do nothing for some parents except alienate them. It sounds to me like if the medical staff at the OP's office were more willing to work with her she would be much more willing to work with them. I don't see how expecting that...which is basically just expecting good customer service...can possibly be a problem.

[MamaofLiam]

Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl 

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena 

Yeah, I think it's kind of bizarre that you're framing it this way.  Your KIDS are lucky that you're taking them to the doctor, why should it matter to the doctor more than it matters to you?  It's your responsibility to care for your children, and taking them for well visits is part of that.  And all the "lecturing" and "patronizing questions" are really just the medical personnel trying to do what's best for your kids, which is their job and the reason you bring the kids there in the first place.  If you decide in a snit that you're not going to darken the clinic's door again, it's your kids who suffer for it, not the clinic.

*Gasp* laughing so hard I can't breathe. Wow. You have a lot of faith in the medical establishment...which is your choice but please don't make the assumption that faith in doctors is what makes one a good parent. It is laughable and condescending.

Actually I think my kid would probably be better off without me taking him to the doctor as he is more likely to come home with something nasty due to all the sick kids in the waiting room. I know that OP feels like she would be better off without all the ignorant speechifying from the staff. Medical personnel push vaccines because it is their job to do so...to achieve the all elusive "herd mentality" and because some doctors get freaking bonuses if they can show complete vaccination rates. It has very little to do with the well being of your individual child (who you know lots better than they do) and more to do with the belief in a general ideology.

I think that the OP has a very good point here which is if doctors want you to buy into their belief system they had better start actually treating you like an equal in your child's care. Which you are. Having a medical degree does not make one the expert in all things medical (any more than having a PhD in history makes one the expert in everything historic) and acting like some kind of all-encompassing authority will do nothing for some parents except alienate them. It sounds to me like if the medical staff at the OP's office were more willing to work with her she would be much more willing to work with them. I don't see how expecting that...which is basically just expecting good customer service...can possibly be a problem.

Well said Chamomile Girl!

[Calliope84]

LOL

Umm... Get a new pediatrician.

We go to all the well-baby visits and so far we haven't vaxed. I did my research and found a doctor that would support our decisions about our child. Everyone in that practice, including the nurses, are on board with the philosophy of that practice. I haven't had to deal with anything negative since we started going there.

[grumpybear]

Originally Posted by Turquesa 

Also, this doctor came highly recommended by my non-vaxxing friends.  But then, they only go in for non-vax related stuff and not well child checks.  Also, they probably didn’t encounter the same staff.  Do any of you delayed/selective vaxers face harassment and Bad Mommy Lectures for your choices? 

I do not consider the strong encouragement by our docs to vax harassment at all. It is what they know. It is what they have been taught. It is what they probably have researched. It is what they believe in. TBH, none of the vax studies that I have read seem conclusive at all. For every positive article regarding vax, there is a negative article and vice versa.

We make decisions for our family based on what we believe in, our doctors make recommendations based on their beliefs and experiences. If they've seen 20 cases of complications due to pertussis versus 5 possible vaccine side effects, it is understandable why they have a bias for the administration of the vaccine.

I still believe that even though a lot of doctors are outdated with their beliefs, I still believe that most doctors do have our best interests at heart.

[Sarahfeena]

*Gasp* laughing so hard I can't breathe. Wow. You have a lot of faith in the medical establishment...which is your choice but please don't make the assumption that faith in doctors is what makes one a good parent. It is laughable and condescending.

I didn't say that's what makes one a good parent, I said that it's part of caring for your child, which is something the OP actually states when she says that she brings the kids there because she thinks that doctors can pick up on things parents can't.

Actually I think my kid would probably be better off without me taking him to the doctor as he is more likely to come home with something nasty due to all the sick kids in the waiting room. I know that OP feels like she would be better off without all the ignorant speechifying from the staff. Medical personnel push vaccines because it is their job to do so...to achieve the all elusive "herd mentality" and because some doctors get freaking bonuses if they can show complete vaccination rates. It has very little to do with the well being of your individual child (who you know lots better than they do) and more to do with the belief in a general ideology.

So, don't take them to the doctor if you truly think they would be better off not going.  That's my point.  You take them, or don't take them, based on what you think is best for them, not based on how grateful the doctor is that you're there.

I think that the OP has a very good point here which is if doctors want you to buy into their belief system they had better start actually treating you like an equal in your child's care. Which you are. Having a medical degree does not make one the expert in all things medical (any more than having a PhD in history makes one the expert in everything historic) and acting like some kind of all-encompassing authority will do nothing for some parents except alienate them. It sounds to me like if the medical staff at the OP's office were more willing to work with her she would be much more willing to work with them. I don't see how expecting that...which is basically just expecting good customer service...can possibly be a problem.

 Well, first of all, medicine isn't a "belief system," I think that's where we have a disconnect here.  I certainly agree that there's no reason for doctors to be condescending and rude, but maybe if they have a bad attitude what what it means is that you need is a new doctor, not that modern medicine isn't important.  One doesn't follow from the other.

[sapphire_chan]

It's like with jury duty.  The one time I had to go in for the selection process they spent nearly 2 HOURS on a lecture about how important it was to show up for jury duty.  I was like "if you want people to show up just make this stupid lecture the penalty for not showing up."

OP, next time they start in, tell the doctor that being pressured about the other vaccines is making you reconsider whether to get the ones you've planned on.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena 

So, don't take them to the doctor if you truly think they would be better off not going.  That's my point.  You take them, or don't take them, based on what you think is best for them, not based on how grateful the doctor is that you're there.

I think that''s the OP's point. She thought there was a value in taking her kids to the doctor, but her experience is making her question that.

If there wasn't so much harassment, she might continue to believe there was value to taking her kids to the doctor.

She's not the only one with this experience, and it's strange that medical offices are shooting themselves in the foot with patients that still subscribe to the medical belief system.

[moonfirefaery]

I have to agree that they are lucky you are there at all.

Because they are getting paid for your being there.

Obviously you are there for your children, but you are paying them for their services so yes, they are lucky you are there and haven't chosen a different clinic that will refrain from the lectures.

I get the patronizing questions, too. They are worse than the lectures.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by grumpybear 

I do not consider the strong encouragement by our docs to vax harassment at all.

I forgot to mention that this was a nurse that I'd never met nor saw in person.  To have her call me up after the appointment to chew me out about my vaccine choices, in my mind, constitutes harassment.  But perhaps you and I draw the line in a different place.
 

Originally Posted by Sarahfeena 

You take them, or don't take them, based on what you think is best for them, not based on how grateful the doctor is that you're there.

This misses the point.  If their cause is herd immunity and their goal is convincing parents to vaccinate their children, then yes, they are should consider themselves fortunate whenever parents choose to comply....even if only partially.  That does not mean I take my LOs to WBVs expecting gratitude.  It does mean that their patients are entitled to some basic respect.     

And believe me, while a number of things may convince me to vaccinate fully by the CDC schedule (e.g. more solidly designed researched, fewer conflicts of interest, etc), I can guarantee that a Bad Mommy Lecture isn't one of them.     

If you decide in a snit that you're not going to darken the clinic's door again, it's your kids who suffer for it, not the clinic.

You lost me here.  Exactly how am I making my children suffer by finding a new pediatrician who respects our choices? 

You're right that the clinic won't care, though, but that's worthy of a whole tome about our health care "system." 

[accountclosed2]

It isn't just about vaccines. It is about parenting, and that medical people, and in particular Well child providers, should support parents. That is the way they can best help children, by supporting their parents. And honestly, why would alienating parents work better than making them trust you? I think the problem is that some peds think that they do not need to earn a parent's trust, that their qualifications and experience means that any parent should just take their word as gospel.

I recently recommended a friend of mine to switch peds (specialist peds, as we usually see nurses here for Well baby stuff), as she felt her ped wasn't trusting her, and he certainly wasn't working with the parents. My point was that working with the parents is the very most important thing to do to help the child - unless the dr is so concerned he's contacting children's services. Anyway, I recommended that she swich to the ped we had gone to. Now there are several things against him - he actually doesn't consider breastfeeding important (but he knows about domperidone, and is happy to prescribe it), he isn't very AP at all, BUT he supports the parents. With us, he was trying to tell how formula is really just as good and that I'd worked hard enough, and should just switch, until he realized how important breastfeeding was to me. Then he was really supportive, assured us that Domp. is safe for baby ("We prescribe it to babies for reflux"), and that once I was on it is was fine to cut down on the supplementing (donated milk), slowly, and didn't bat an eye over donated milk or co-sleeping. My friend told me, after the first meeting with him, that he told her not to worry, her child is fine, just small. Which is what she really needed to hear. Now they can work together for the benefit of her child.

[yarngoddess]

Last time I had the "Pleasure" of dealing with these kinds of Dr visits and vaxes was years ago. Our current ped is very, very low key and is supportive of our decision and has never, ever pushed us to reconsider our choice.  Anyway last time I got the doom and gloom speech from the nurses I said this "Excuse me (and I interruped her which is I rarely ever do) Nurse, I am the parent of this kid and any and all decisions are made by myself and my husband and we will discuss them, with the DOCTOR, and I'd appreciate if you keep your opinions to your self."  That was the last time the nurse brought up anything except when to come back for a follow up visit :)  I feel strongly that nurses and other office staff should NEVER get involved in the decisions that are your RIGHT to make or decline.  
 

As for them being lucky- they are only happy when you conform completely- especially where the nurses are concerned. Glad you were able to disconnect  quickly from that- and still able to get the info about opting out of the computer system! Good luck with your next visit, lol!