How to get them ALL to sleep?

[mami2f3]

This might be complicated, but I really need suggestions: I have 8 and 10 yo boys who sleep in one room with a double bunkbed. I have an almost 3yogirl who has made it clear she is done with the crib and is ready to sleep in a big girl bed. So she is getting one of the bottom bunks in their room. (We only have two bedrooms). Now, she WAS sleeping in a crib in my room. Rather, I would put her to bed there and in the middle of the night she would fuss and I would put her into bed with me. 

Side note: I am not so good at co-sleeping. With anyone. I just like to sleep in a bed alone. I can't really get sleep otherwise. However, all of my children have ended up in the bed with me at various times. Sometimes all at the same time, at which point I abandon ship usually to one of their beds! 

Anyway, a few weeks ago, I started putting her to bed in their room. It was going okay. However, it has gotten progressively worse and now I am kind of at my wits end. 

I have a routine that I kept for the boys: brush teeth, I read a chapter book, pray together, lights out. They do a little 'asking questions' right after lights out to try to prolong, but I usually just say it's time for bed and go. It had worked well. 

The baby had a routine too: sing a few songs (as I did with the boys when they were little) with lights out, lay down, mini prayer, good night. I used to do this at about 7:45 as the boys got on pjs and brushed teeth and read to themselves. Then I would go in and get them to bed by about 8:30 or 8:45. 

But now that they are together it's awful. The boys are trying to be patient but it's hard. My DD talks, moves, dances, etc while I am trying to read to the boys. I've given her her own book. I've read to her a bit before I read to them. I've promised to read a bit after if she will chill. No dice. 

Then when we've struggled through that, at lights out, she wiggles and talks and fusses and gets up and chats with the boys and...you get the idea. So they aren't getting the sleep they need and neither is she. 

So what do I do? 

I have also tried laying down with them for a bit to keep things settled. She either does all the rowdiness with me there, which pushes my buttons and I overreact, or they all just want to kind of cling to me, but they never sleep. I've stayed there for 10, 15, 30 minutes. I've stayed 10-20 to settle them then gone and returned and laid down for another 10-20, etc. They are all just still awake.

I really need a different perspective on this. I am starting to lose it.

[canadiangranola]

Hi, 

I have three kids too, and we have had our share of bedtime woes from time to time. 

Is there any way you can put an extra mattress in your room ( a mini bed on the floor) for your daughter to sleep on? Perhaps you can do the go to sleep in mama's room routine and then once she is asleep you can move her to their room if you really want her to sleep in there?

Do you have a partner who could help the boys through their routine while she is going to sleep? 

The way we currently do it is that I put dd (almost three) to bed first in our room (we all cosleep though, and putting two to bed at the same time NEVER works for us.) If she has not napped, she is quickly asleep by 8 at the latest. If she has napped, all bets are off and I often put dd1 (she's 5) to bed first at about 9:30 and then lie down with ds1 (7) until we both fall asleep at about 11. We homeschool so don't need to maintain an early morning schedule. Dh brings dd in when she is finally ready to sleep and she nurses and sleeps. 

It's really nice to have the one on one time with each kid (although there have been times I've resented being the put to bed parent). 

I digress. Perhaps your dd is not ready for bed as early as you are trying to put her to sleep and so she creates a distraction, or perhaps she just can't calm herself with big brothers to entertain. I battled for a long time with my dd when she was about 3 1/2 b/c I was trying to get her to go to sleep earlier than she needed to, and it never really worked out for us in the end, except to end many evenings in tears for both of us. Nobody got what they wanted, and I ended up feeling crappy about our relationship. 

Could you give her a quiet video in another room while you help the boys go to sleep?

I hope some of these suggestions help :)

[mami2f3]

Thank you for your response! I can't tell you how desperate I am getting.

I do not have a partner to help and it wasn't easy to keep the boys quiet before (back when she was sleeping in my room and I put her down first), but I made it work. Now, I just don't know. I guess I could try the video but I'm worried about her getting enough sleep. I have always felt that kids need way more sleep than most people give them. 

We need to get up at 6:30. So if she goes to bed after the boys, it woudl be about 9:30. That's 9 hours, right? She takes a 1-1.5 hour nap each day. So that would be 10-10.5. Maybe that is enough. 

Although....I've noticed the later she is up the more wound up she gets. In raising my others, I always felt this was a sign that they needed to go to bed earlier. 

Okay so here's the other part: I need a break. I am doing this alone and by the end of the day, I am fed up. i was really relying on 9pm lately. That is when I get to finally be alone. I wash dishes, do laundry, go online, look for jobs, etc. 

And the tiny window between when she went to bed and when the boys do gave me some much needed time with them without a toddler. Big kid talk, books, hugs, etc.

So I think I'll try if there is some way to put something on the floor of my room for her. Or just put her to sleep in my bed? And transfer her later? Would that work or will she wake up in the night and wail because she is no longer in my bed? 

If she's in my room, going to bed earlier, I feel pretty sure she is going to be getting up and coming out/crying repeatedly. This kills the time that I will be putting the boys to bed. Any suggestions to keep that minimal?

[mami2f3]

It's now been an hour. I put her to bed in my bed. She's still crying. I just feel so angry and frustrated. She's keeping the boys up even though she's in the other room. I have done a full routine. I have rubbed her back. I have put her back into the room a couple times with, "It's time for bed." I don't know what else to do.

[D_McG]

I'm having trouble following for some reason. I'm tired and v. pregnant

But at her age I'd shoot for 12 hours sleep. 9:30 sounds way too late for a bedtime.

I would put her in bed at 8ish and just do normal consequences for leaving the room/acting up. Whatever works. For us we do a 10 or 20 minute 'clock' where we go in and check on my son and if he comes out before that we reset the clock so he has to be in his room alone for longer. Also if there is real chaos at bedtime then we'll take away a privelige the next day. That's v. rare though. we've had to be real no-nonsense and strict about bedtimes. Give them an inch....

then put your other 2 to bed at their normal time.

Would that work?

[Shami]

I only have one so my advice may not be realistic. Like DMcG said, I'd put her to sleep first and early. Maybe you could put her to sleep in the bottom bunk while your boys do their routine. Then the older ones could read in your bed or you read to them in your bed. After the reading the older ones can quietly slip into their beds. Basically, give her the bedroom first. Also, my three year old falls asleep early since she doesn't have a nap. She is mostly nap free and sleeps 11 to 12 hours a night. She does wake up, but we cosleep so she falls back to sleep without a fuss. If she gets a nap, I'm up til eleven waiting for her to sleep.

[mami2f3]

DMcG: I know, sorry. I am bad at explaining it. I am really glad for feedback that it should be about 12 hours. I've always pushed more sleep but lately I'm mixed up and at wits end. I don't quite understand your clock system. More info? I'm not sure she would get the next day consequence: everything in the past is still 'last week' (even if it was last night or last year) and in the future is 'tomorrow.' What kind of priveleges do you take away?

Shami: I hadn't thought of putting her to bed in their room first. I guess they had been going to bed close enough that I couldn't make it work. But if I put her to bed 7:30 (oof--hard to make happen with dinner, homework, etc), then maybe she'd be asleep by the time the boys go to bed at 8:30.

As of right now, she is asleep in my bed. She has stayed in my bed all night the past three nights. I don't sleep as well, but it's all I could take. It's been a rough week. My 8yo son has night terrors and screams a lot when things are out of routine, as it has been. I'm not sure if I should try to shift to her going to bed first in their room right away or not. Thoughts? 

[Shami]

If she drops her nap she will fall asleep quickly at 7:30, but i don't know if that is an option for you. And she should sleep 11-12 hours. Since your boys are older, they could do their routine quietly and you could read to them in your bed. Then after the chapter, they slip into their own beds. They might really like it an feel kind of special to do that, especially if their little sis was bugging them so much and they weren't able to read. Include the boys in on the plan so that they have a vested interest in it. If the boys feel ownership in the plan they will help you with the three year old. If you want, you could tough it out with her in your bed until she is a wee bit older and drops her nap. I really think the nap dropping will help her fall asleep fast and even earlier if you want.

[Peony]

Originally Posted by Shami 

If she drops her nap she will fall asleep quickly at 7:30, but i don't know if that is an option for you. And she should sleep 11-12 hours. Since your boys are older, they could do their routine quietly and you could read to them in your bed. Then after the chapter, they slip into their own beds. They might really like it an feel kind of special to do that, especially if their little sis was bugging them so much and they weren't able to read. Include the boys in on the plan so that they have a vested interest in it. If the boys feel ownership in the plan they will help you with the three year old. If you want, you could tough it out with her in your bed until she is a wee bit older and drops her nap. I really think the nap dropping will help her fall asleep fast and even earlier if you want.

I did this when my DD2 was 2.5y just to make night time easier. 3 kids as well and a DH who often is traveling or working late. She would be out by 7-7:30 at the VERY latest, and then I could work on getting the other kids to bed. The rush around an earlier bedtime wasn't fun at first, but I got into the swing of things, and most nights soon moved along smoothly.  She is 4.5 now and I still do this, put her to bed at 7:30, 8y DD1 is next and then toddler DS who goes to bed later because he sleeps in.