Offering Neighbor Baby the Gift of My Milk - Page 3

[TheGirls]

My babies are fed formula from a "bottle".  (actually it's a real bottle, I'm not sure what the deal is with the "bottles" either).  I EBF my eldest, but my DP gave birth to the twins, and wasn't able to produce enough milk.  And trust me, she. tried. everything.    I tried to increase my supply, but also unable to produce much milk.  And the boys quickly became uninterested in empty breasts.  Soooo, here we are.  They get as much breastmilk as we can pump for them or get donated to them, then they get formula.  It isn't poison. It also isn't a computer brand (IBM).  It's the most nutritious substance my babies have available.  I am insanely grateful to have safe nutritious formula available for my infants.  They are alive, healthy, and thriving because of it.  Calling it IBM like you're too good to even use the WORD formula is really insulting.

If you were to babysit my babies and nurse them without my permission, I'd be extremely angry, even though I highly value breastmilk.  However, there's no way on earth that they'd latch anyway, since they forgot how to do that months ago.   If you are so set on sharing breastmilk, I'd recommend pumping for a milk-sharing service.  There are plenty of moms out there who would love to give their babies the gift of your milk.   

[happyhippie]

Originally Posted by nettlesoup 

Could you be any more insulting? I was a Lactivist until I found that I couldn't breastfeed my daughter. The experience taught me that formula has its place, and is a good alternative if you need it. It's people like you that made me feel miserable and like a terrible mother because I couldn't breastfeed.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Polliwog 

I find the term IBM offensive. It's formula and it's not bad for babies. I'm a foster, and adoptive, parent and have raised several babies who were exclusively formula fed. It might not be as ideal as breast milk but it's not horrible and you shouldn't make a mother feel bad for her choices.

Wahhh?  Formula is bad for babies - or, at a minimum, not as good as breastmilk.  Sometime it is necessary to use formula, and that is that, no need to feel guilty.

However, I do think if you choose to formula feed feeling bad or guilt is warranted.  Formula fed babies are statistically sicker than breastfed babies, as parents we should do everything we can to ensure the wellness of our children.

That being said, there is no way I would breastfeed a baby unless explicitly asked.  Either formula feed him ( which is not hard, get instructions) or refuse to watch him.  I would try hard to watch him, though, this is a mom going through surgery - it would be nice if you can be there for her.

Edited to add:  I am not sure why everyone is offended over the term IBM?  I do not think it is accurate - imitation breast milk - as breast milk is not replicatable, but is not inherantly offensive.   I think people are just ticked off with what the Op was asking and are jumping on terms like "bottle" and IBM - but they really do not seem to be big deals to me.   

[imogenlily]

Anyone else getting the troll feeling?

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Wahhh?  Formula is bad for babies - or, at a minimum, not as good as breastmilk.  Sometime it is necessary to use formula, and that is that, no need to feel guilty.

However, I do think if you choose to formula feed feeling bad or guilt is warranted.  Formula fed babies are statistically sicker than breastfed babies, as parents we should do everything we can to ensure the wellness of our children.

That being said, there is no way I would breastfeed a baby unless explicitly asked.  Either formula feed him ( which is not hard, get instructions) or refuse to watch him.  I would try hard to watch him, though, this is a mom going through surgery - it would be nice if you can be there for her.

Edited to add:  I am not sure why everyone is offended over the term IBM?  I do not think it is accurate - imitation breast milk - as breast milk is not replicatable, but is not inherantly offensive.   I think people are just ticked off with what the Op was asking and are jumping on terms like "bottle" and IBM - but they really do not seem to be big deals to me.   

Formula is not bad for babies.  GIving cow's milk or water would be bad for a baby's sole source of nutrition.  Of course breastmilk is superior.  I doubt anyone with half a brain would suggest otherwise.  But when one cannot or will not breastfeed, for whatever reason (and, um, fostering and adoption is obviously a great example of cannot), formula is a healthy alternative. There is NO reason to feel guilty or bad here.  Sheesh. 

IBM sounds dumb and made up (plus, I just imagine a computer company).  Of course formula is not imitation breastmilk; It is a formula designed to meet the nutritional needs of babies. 

I am a huge breastfeeding proponent and nursed all four of my kids for years (including tandeming a toddler and preschooler).  But the anti-formula sentiment gets old.

OP, glad you decided to drop this and hopefully you will reassess how judgmental you possibly come across to other mothers (your neighbor included if she gets wind of your line of thinking).  This kind of attitude honestly is what gives lactivists the crazy rep.
 

[scotia]

I still can't decide if the OP is for real or not.  I'm pretty new to MDC, but looking back at her previous posts on other topics, they generally seem just a little... over the top.  

But, operating under the assumption that she is for real, and genuinely finds formula (I refuse to call it "IBM", which is just insufferable) to be that reprehensible, I agree that she should absolutely not care for her neighbor's little one.  I can't imagine they are very close, or the neighbor would presumably have figured out how judgy this person is.  (Seriously?  The "gift of my milk"?  Who talks like that?)  I agree with PPs - if anyone dared to breastfeed my son without my explicit knowledge and permission, I would not only find it unforgivable, but would contemplate pressing charges.  

Sounds like the neighbor is in a tough spot though, so please, OP, if you are reading this and still plan on going over there?  Please keep your opinions to yourself.  Formula is not rocket science.  Read the directions.  You can figure it out.  There's no reason to add to this woman's stress by pointing out how sad you think her choices are.

I've been lucky enough to be able to EBF my son, but really it's just that - luck that I haven't had supply issues and that he got the hang of it quickly.  If it hadn't worked out though, I wouldn't have hesitated to use formula, and wouldn't have felt bad about it for an instant, but instead would have been grateful that there are healthy options available.  Plenty of my friends and family members have used formula after having supply issues or other problems nursing.  And you know what?  Their kids are awesome.  They are happy, healthy, thriving little people.   And if you lined them up with a bunch of kids who had only had breastmilk, you'd never know the difference.  

I'm not saying anything here that hasn't already been mentioned in other replies, and am probably a bit rambly on top of it, but I just find the original question so unbelievably judgmental and offensive.  

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife 

Formula is not bad for babies.  GIving cow's milk or water would be bad for a baby's sole source of nutrition.  Of course breastmilk is superior.  I doubt anyone with half a brain would suggest otherwise.  But when one cannot or will not breastfeed, for whatever reason (and, um, fostering and adoption is obviously a great example of cannot), formula is a healthy alternative. There is NO reason to feel guilty or bad here.  Sheesh. 

 If you read my earlier post thoroughly you will realise I made a distinction between women who can't breastfeed and women who don't.    I am well aware some women cannot breastfeed.  I have no issues with people who cannot breastfeed.

I guess it depends on how you define good.  Formula is not as good for you as breastmilk. Period.  Maybe that does not make it "bad" - but breastmilk being far better than formula is a good enough reason for me to choose it. 

If I feed my children junk food regularly should I not feel guilty? 

I think breatmilk goes beyond personal choice.  It is better for babies, and I think babies deserve it if it is possible. 

Maybe I am feeling punchy today, but I do judge women who choose not to nurse.  I do not judge women who cannot nurse, and I do not judge random women whose story I do not know - but if I know your story and know you don't want to nurse because your sister had difficultites, you want to go out partying, or you want your figure back fast, yeah I judge.  Breastmilk is the superior choice and babies deserve it if we can do it.

[JudiAU]

If you don't have experience giving a bottle to a baby or you don't feel comfortable with it, then decline to provide care. I am not interested in bottle-feeding, have never given a bottle, and I've declined the opportunity when it was presented to me. (weirdly from a woman who I was donating milk for her adopted baby)  Your option is to provide care with the food provided. I would not offer to nurse the baby nor would I assume the baby can nurse if offerred. I wouldn't explain the reasons which would likely deeply offend the mother.

[SeattleRain]

Kathy, it's not so simple as "breast milk=good and therefore formula=bad." It's more like "breastmilk=best and formula=lesser." You are not a "bad" parent if you feed your child formula, like you would be if you fed your child only straight cows milk (formula contains cow milk but it is processed so it is not as harmful to the digestive system, it also contains extra fats and vitamins needed for brain development), because feeding them cows milk would be harmful and possibly life-threatening. Babies who are breastfed reap many, many advantages from being breastfed, but I would be shocked to find a baby who actually died from being formula fed, other than formula contamination. Other than contamination (which is most often avoidable by using safe bottle practices and using sterile liquid formula for babies with lowered immune systems, and only VERY rarely from direct contamination from the company).

It's difficult to hear you say that you find formula to be "bad" food, but you don't judge someone for using it if they can't breastfeed, and that they shouldn't feel guilty for using it. If I'm feeding my child food that is truly dangerous and "bad" then there should be no excuse for it, it shouldn't ever be allowable. In the same way that I don't ever really think its excusable to feed your child, for example, nothing but jelly beans, even if you can't afford to buy fresh produce. Feeding your child jelly beans all day is dangerous. I understand what you're saying, that you're unimpressed by the percieved laziness of women who choose to use formula instead of nursing, but it's not like they're using poison.

[GoBecGo]

Trip trap trip trap trip trap went the little billy goat Gruff across the bridge....

OP i think it would be ok to nurse the baby and not tell the mom so long as you'd be ok with your DH sharing his sperm with her and not telling you.

Trollery.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by SeattleRain 

Kathy, it's not so simple as "breast milk=good and therefore formula=bad." It's more like "breastmilk=best and formula=lesser." You are not a "bad" parent if you feed your child formula, like you would be if you fed your child only straight cows milk (formula contains cow milk but it is processed so it is not as harmful to the digestive system, it also contains extra fats and vitamins needed for brain development), because feeding them cows milk would be harmful and possibly life-threatening. Babies who are breastfed reap many, many advantages from being breastfed, but I would be shocked to find a baby who actually died from being formula fed, other than formula contamination. Other than contamination (which is most often avoidable by using safe bottle practices and using sterile liquid formula for babies with lowered immune systems, and only VERY rarely from direct contamination from the company).

It's difficult to hear you say that you find formula to be "bad" food, but you don't judge someone for using it if they can't breastfeed, and that they shouldn't feel guilty for using it. If I'm feeding my child food that is truly dangerous and "bad" then there should be no excuse for it, it shouldn't ever be allowable. In the same way that I don't ever really think its excusable to feed your child, for example, nothing but jelly beans, even if you can't afford to buy fresh produce. Feeding your child jelly beans all day is dangerous. I understand what you're saying, that you're unimpressed by the percieved laziness of women who choose to use formula instead of nursing, but it's not like they're using poison.

Yes, thank you.  Perfectly said. 
 

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo 

Trip trap trip trap trip trap went the little billy goat Gruff across the bridge....

OP i think it would be ok to nurse the baby and not tell the mom so long as you'd be ok with your DH sharing his sperm with her and not telling you.

Trollery.

Thanks for that!

[annettemarie]

Just a reminder to please stick to the topic rather than trying to stick it to the OP.

[*bejeweled*]

nm.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by SeattleRain 

Kathy, it's not so simple as "breast milk=good and therefore formula=bad." It's more like "breastmilk=best and formula=lesser."

I can agree with this.  I wonder where the line from lesser goes into "bad" but do not have the answer to this.

You are not a "bad" parent if you feed your child formula, like you would be if you fed your child only straight cows milk

 I said I judged them - but perhaps I should have been more thoughtful in writing - I judge the action.   I do not think feeding formula by choice makes someone a bad parent - I usually look at the whole picture (not just feeding process) before deciding someone is a bad parent.  

. Babies who are breastfed reap many, many advantages from being breastfed, but I would be shocked to find a baby who actually died from being formula fed.

I have not looked up the stats recently but they are there for anyone who wants to look.  Breastfed infants are less likely to get sick, less likely to need hospitalisation, may be at less risk for SIDS, less likely to develop certain diseases (diabetes???)  and on and on and on.  Formula feeding may not be the direct cause of death in the vast majority of cases, but  that does not mean it is a healthy choice. Simply not causing death   does not mean an item is a good health choice. 

It's difficult to hear you say that you find formula to be "bad" food, but you don't judge someone for using it if they can't breastfeed, and that they shouldn't feel guilty for using it. If I'm feeding my child food that is truly dangerous and "bad" then there should be no excuse for it, it shouldn't ever be allowable.

Well, I do think formula is bad  (or lesser).  I am well aware not everyone can nurse, however, so I genuinely believe people should not feel guilty if they can't.   I get that you think bad= never do it, but we live in the real world and sometimes people have to do stuff (feed formula) that they know is not the best.    

Kathy

Edited to add:  I find it very odd that I am pointing out that breastfeeding is the superior health choice on MDC!

Edited by kathymuggle - 4/12/11 at 6:12pm

[imogenlily]

I think one of the reasons that it's a difficult issue is that, for me, at least, "can't" is a grey area. There are many reasons why women may not be able to breastfeed, and I think those reasons get different reactions depending on how valid the person hearing them thinks they are.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Kathy

Edited to add:  I find it very odd that I am pointing out that breastfeeding is the superior health choice on MDC!

Can you show me one place on this thread where anyone states that breastfeeding is not superior to formula?

This thread is starting to remind me of a thread way back where someone compared formula to McDonald's - so not appropriate or accurate.

[miso_soup]

I believe they call this "first world problems"? Lol. Anyway, maybe if we all did a lot less judging and a lot more minding our own damn business, we wouldn't have to keep flogging this dead horse. What more is there to possibly say on this subject - particularly on MDC - that hasn't been said a thousand times? Let me sum it up, if I may:

1) Breast milk is undoubtedly the best choice for the overwhelming majority of babies.

2) In the absence of a reliable source of breast milk (for any reason, whether through death/injury/sickness or personal choice), formula is fine and will give your child the nutrition s/he needs.

Maybe I'm a bit dense or something, but really don't see that it's any more complicated than this. I also find it kind of ridiculous that someone might deem it appropriate to "judge" me based on which of these two options I choose for my baby. I mean, really? At least it helps me to figure who I want to hang out with vs. who to avoid like the plague, I suppose....

[imogenlily]

Originally Posted by miso_soup 

I believe they call this "first world problems"? Lol. Anyway, maybe if we all did a lot less judging and a lot more minding our own damn business, we wouldn't have to keep flogging this dead horse. What more is there to possibly say on this subject - particularly on MDC - that hasn't been said a thousand times? Let me sum it up, if I may:

1) Breast milk is undoubtedly the best choice for the overwhelming majority of babies.

2) In the absence of a reliable source of breast milk (for any reason, whether through death/injury/sickness or personal choice), formula is fine and will give your child the nutrition s/he needs.

Maybe I'm a bit dense or something, but really don't see that it's any more complicated than this. I also find it kind of ridiculous that someone might deem it appropriate to "judge" me based on which of these two options I choose for my baby. I mean, really? At least it helps me to figure who I want to hang out with vs. who to avoid like the plague, I suppose....

ITA. What I was trying to get at with my less articulate post, was that when we judge people for "can't BF" vs. "don't want to BF", we're making judgments. We don't know the whole story, we don't know who was a survivor of sexual abuse, or what health issues someone might have and not want to talk about, and what sounds like "not a big deal" to me might be a really big deal to the mother in question. I think we pretty much have to trust that outside clearcut issues of abuse or neglect, individuals are really the experts on what is best for them, and they make the best decisions they can.

I have not yet decided whether I will breastfeed while taking Paxil for OCD. I know I will need Paxil in the postpartum period. If I choose not to BF, plenty of people in my real, non-internet life know neither about my OCD nor my Paxil. I know that it may appear to some that I am just choosing not to BF, especially if, when they ask, I tell them that it's just what I chose. If they choose to judge me for not BFing, I'll take it personally. I do not need that judgment. And I do not need to defend or explain myself to everyone.

I do believe BFing is a superior source of nutrition, and that BFing education and support should be widely available, but once people have made their choice, I don't think anyone should judge.

[NWnewmom]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Maybe I am feeling punchy today, but I do judge women who choose not to nurse.  I do not judge women who cannot nurse, and I do not judge random women whose story I do not know - but if I know your story and know you don't want to nurse because your sister had difficultites, you want to go out partying, or you want your figure back fast, yeah I judge.

I don't believe it is my place to judge anyone's actions, regardless.  I Find it much more productive to focus on what I believe is best for my family and my children and let others do the same.  Just my opinion.