DD didn't get into Montessori...need advice/venting

[tangledblue]

So...here's the deal. My DD, who I just know would absolutely THRIVE in a Montessori environment, was rejected by one Montessori school, and although we had applied to another one that she did get into, the teachers at that one seemed cold and curt to the kids so we won't go there. Other Montessori schools have all basically filled up for next year by now (plus, I am handicapped by the fact that DH doesn't care that much about Montessori and is not nearly as gung-ho about it as I am. In fact, he is a bit annoyed by my bemoaning the situation. ) 

I know I am overreacting a little, given that she has a decent non-Montessori preschool option for next year, but I can't help feeling...really kind of emotional and personally disappointed. This is partly because I went to a Montessori school and I feel like it was such a great experience, and I'm sad that she won't have the same opportunity. I feel like I have failed her. (Probably because the admissions process was based entirely on the parent interview; they never saw her engage with the classroom materials. She is 2.5)  On the sour grapes front, I'm a little embittered because the director of the school made much of the fact that she really wanted parents to "drink the kool-aid" of Montessori philosophy, so to speak, and I'm like, "I drank the kool-aid! A whole gallon of it! And now you won't let my kid drink it!" Grrr. I can't believe I am this frustrated by preschool admissions, for heaven's sakes. Never thought I would be one of those parents.  :)  I guess we should have applied to more than two Montessori schools. Also, we felt pretty good about the interview at the time, so it was kind of a rude shock. In retrospect I can see some things we should have emphasized more. 

Advice? The rational part of my brain says "See how she likes Decent Preschool next year, if she is appropriately challenged, and go from there." Somebody remind me that other preschools can be ok too...(or can they?   ) 

I have thought about acquiring some of the Montessori works for our house, but I think a lot of the learning comes not just from the materials themselves but from the classroom environment and ability to work side by side but independently, wait for peers to finish work before using, learn from peers, etc.   I am not sure how to have DD gain the full benefit of the works without the classroom piece. Thoughts? Which works to start with if we go that way? 

[mattemma04]

Sorry your child was rejected based on your interview. That is a shame they would do that. Glad you did not opt for the other school since you got a bad feeling about the teachers. Why exactly did they turn her down? Will you reapply the next year? Are there any other schools you can apply at?

My ds only got in a few months of Primary,but it was a good time for him. Hopefully you can get her in somewhere for atleast a year of Primary. I agree there are some good non-M preschools out there. Just keep trying various school settings till you find a good fit.

There are people that do M at home,but I agree that a large part of it is the classroom setting. I would check out some books on the subject,and look on yahoo for local M homeschooling groups.

[ollyoxenfree]

Is a late start in the school year possible where you are, if you try other schools? 

My children both joined Montessori in January, at the half-way point of the school year. For the eldest, we had a change in our caregiving situation that made it necessary to try something different, and there was a spot available. For the younger one, we decided to do the same because it worked so well for our first. 

I think there is a lot you can do at home to nurture a Montessori approach to living, as well as build skills in the various categories of the traditional Montessori curriculum. You can read up on what you can do at home. There are a lot of resources available on-line, on blogs and websites, as well as books. Best wishes.  

[physmom]

Is this a situation where you could try an apply the following year or get on a waiting list?  Could you apply next year to other Montessori schools? 

I'm so sorry that you didn't get it.  That sounds like a really frustrating process.  We used to live in NYC and the school situation there is just INSANE so we were really happy to get away precisely for this reason! 

What other preschool options do you have in your area?  Personally, I'd probably look at play-based, Waldorf, and Reggio-Emilia to see what fits best for my family.  Admittedly, I'm not the biggest fan of some of the Waldorf beliefs but I think the preschool years would be ok depending on your kids personality. 

We've also incorporated a lot of Montessori ideas into our homelife.  Before we moved we had a great set-up for DD where all her toys were accessible on low shelves and she had her own shelf of snacks.  We made sure she kept it clean and put items away after she used them.  We also try to get her to pick up after herself and clean around the house.  There was a post awhile back with ideas for Montessori materials at home with a lot of great ideas. 

[tangledblue]

Yeah, I live in a big city that, while not as insane as NYC, the preschool process can be crazy. I really envy people who can just decide that their kid will go to Montessori and not go through such a process.

(Another Montessori school we looked at had a $250 fee just to apply! We didn't apply to that one.) And the one with the cold teachers...yeah, I loved everything else about it, location, schedule, and setting were great, but I just couldn't get past the teachers. 

I was thinking back on the interview and I think we didn't convey enough about what we do that is "Montessori" in the home. It just seemed such a given to me (like having a little table & chairs, things at eye level, teaching her to put on her jacket "montessori style"...I just didn't think to mention any of that stuff, and I think it would have helped. We talked about what we valued in the academic side of Montessori (math beads etc.) and I think the director thought we were only interested in the academics.Would calling them about openings or reapplying just make me a glutton for punishment? Anyone with big city experience who wants to weigh in?  Also, if you have switched schools with your child midway through the year, how did they handle it?

There are some other M. schools in the city that we would like, but I'd rather not drive more than 30 min, and also it's probably too late to find a spot for next year. I'll call around just in case. Preschool will probably be fine. I know DD will like it, but I will know what she's missing...so it's my hangup, I guess. 

[Chamomile Girl]

Forgive me OP for crashing in here, but I read this on new posts. I am sorry you are so hurt by the rejection of the school you had your heart set on for your daughter, but the fact that they interview the parents to determine which kids get in is super-duper major awesomely oogy to me. I mean....yuck!!! How on earth do they justify this type of exclusivity? And, goodness, what on earth does that teach kids?

I think that you are better off without them OP.

[CatsCradle]

Hey OP.  You can PM me if you'd like.  My child is in her third year at a Brooklyn Montessori school.  It is part of a two-school system (the other school is in Manhattan).  We didn't have any problems getting in, but I don't know why.  My DD spent some time with the Directress and also spent a little time in the actual class with the other students.  We weren't interviewed per se, but I did have to write a small paper on why we were choosing Montessori.  We live in Brooklyn, but the school is in a different neighborhood, so we end up traveling about an hour in the morning via walking and subway.  It has been hugely worth it to us, though.  The school, however, doesn't have a high turnover in the preschool age group.  DD is still with a lot of the same kids that she started with at two.  Sometimes the huge problem in the NYC environs is availability of space.  I was actually surprised when DD got in three years ago, because there were a ton of parents who showed up for the orientation.  I have to say, though, that a lot of those parents didn't seem interested in Montessori as philosophy, they appeared to be primarily interested in the fact that it is a private school.  Perhaps the little thesis that we each had to write sort of separated out the very interested parties from the parties who didn't have a lot of stake in the idea of Montessori.

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl 

Forgive me OP for crashing in here, but I read this on new posts. I am sorry you are so hurt by the rejection of the school you had your heart set on for your daughter, but the fact that they interview the parents to determine which kids get in is super-duper major awesomely oogy to me. I mean....yuck!!! How on earth do they justify this type of exclusivity? And, goodness, what on earth does that teach kids?

I think that you are better off without them OP.

Chamomile:  as I stated in my post above, we didn't have an interview at our school but we had to write a small paper on why Montessori was important to us.  While this may not be true in OP's case, my guess is that part of the purpose of the parental interview is to get a sense of why the parent wants to send their child there (I had to do the same thing for DD's new school in the fall).  Private schools can exclude for whatever reason.  I'm not saying that exclusivenss for the wrong reasons doesn't exist, but I think in NYC the process is often more complex.  The other option is that the school forgoes the interview and/or paper writing and bases their decision either on a lottery or first come/first serve.  I personally think that system is flawed too.  Getting into schools in NYC is a huge task.  There are more people that want in then the space provides.  It is just presently a fact.  My own neighbor doesn't even know yet if her child got into the neighborhood public school for kindergarten!   People actually have obtained fake addresses or have rented apartments in certain neighborhoods just to get into the public school of their choice.  It is really crazy.  A lot of things need to be addressed and fixed here in NYC. 

[physmom]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

Chamomile:  as I stated in my post above, we didn't have an interview at our school but we had to write a small paper on why Montessori was important to us.  While this may not be true in OP's case, my guess is that part of the purpose of the parental interview is to get a sense of why the parent wants to send their child there (I had to do the same thing for DD's new school in the fall).  Private schools can exclude for whatever reason.  I'm not saying that exclusivenss for the wrong reasons doesn't exist, but I think in NYC the process is often more complex.  The other option is that the school forgoes the interview and/or paper writing and bases their decision either on a lottery or first come/first serve.  I personally think that system is flawed too.  Getting into schools in NYC is a huge task.  There are more people that want in then the space provides.  It is just presently a fact.  My own neighbor doesn't even know yet if her child got into the neighborhood public school for kindergarten!   People actually have obtained fake addresses or have rented apartments in certain neighborhoods just to get into the public school of their choice.  It is really crazy.  A lot of things need to be addressed and fixed here in NYC. 

As a former NYer yes to all that above.

OP- I think it's worth a try to contact the school again just to see.  If it works out GREAT, if not, who cares what they think, right? Maybe just mention that you'd still be interested in the school and emphasize how pro-Montessori you are (that you went there yourself etc).  I'd also not discount the schools that are farther away.  We have to take the bus with DD to school (it's 20 min each way with no traffic but one leg of the commute due to traffic it's an hour ).  It's annoying but worth it. 

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

Chamomile:  as I stated in my post above, we didn't have an interview at our school but we had to write a small paper on why Montessori was important to us.  While this may not be true in OP's case, my guess is that part of the purpose of the parental interview is to get a sense of why the parent wants to send their child there (I had to do the same thing for DD's new school in the fall).  Private schools can exclude for whatever reason.  I'm not saying that exclusivenss for the wrong reasons doesn't exist, but I think in NYC the process is often more complex.  The other option is that the school forgoes the interview and/or paper writing and bases their decision either on a lottery or first come/first serve.  I personally think that system is flawed too.  Getting into schools in NYC is a huge task.  There are more people that want in then the space provides.  It is just presently a fact.  My own neighbor doesn't even know yet if her child got into the neighborhood public school for kindergarten!   People actually have obtained fake addresses or have rented apartments in certain neighborhoods just to get into the public school of their choice.  It is really crazy.  A lot of things need to be addressed and fixed here in NYC. 

I guess I don't really understand how this can be seen as more fair than a lottery. I guess it is situations like this that convince me public school is the way to go!

ETA: I think that admissions processes like these are ripe for abuse in terms of selecting based on perceptions of race and class. It is too easy to decide someone is "not like us" or "not montessori enough" when what you are really judging is their social class or their "otherness". JMO.

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl 

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

Chamomile:  as I stated in my post above, we didn't have an interview at our school but we had to write a small paper on why Montessori was important to us.  While this may not be true in OP's case, my guess is that part of the purpose of the parental interview is to get a sense of why the parent wants to send their child there (I had to do the same thing for DD's new school in the fall).  Private schools can exclude for whatever reason.  I'm not saying that exclusivenss for the wrong reasons doesn't exist, but I think in NYC the process is often more complex.  The other option is that the school forgoes the interview and/or paper writing and bases their decision either on a lottery or first come/first serve.  I personally think that system is flawed too.  Getting into schools in NYC is a huge task.  There are more people that want in then the space provides.  It is just presently a fact.  My own neighbor doesn't even know yet if her child got into the neighborhood public school for kindergarten!   People actually have obtained fake addresses or have rented apartments in certain neighborhoods just to get into the public school of their choice.  It is really crazy.  A lot of things need to be addressed and fixed here in NYC. 

I guess I don't really understand how this can be seen as more fair than a lottery. I guess it is situations like this that convince me public school is the way to go!

ETA: I think that admissions processes like these are ripe for abuse in terms of selecting based on perceptions of race and class. It is too easy to decide someone is "not like us" or "not montessori enough" when what you are really judging is their social class or their "otherness". JMO.

I totally understand your position, and I'm not saying this type of "otherness" doesn't exist.  I don't think, however, it is true where my DD goes to school.  It is very cross-cultural and racially balanced and that is why we were so interested in this particular school to begin with.  Diversity is important to us.  I think that if there are biases in it New York City is more economic biases than race biases.  In some of the higher end private schools (while they profess to be diverse), it is exclusive by virtue of cost.  There is a private school in Brooklyn (where Manhattan kids travel to every day) that costs in upwards of $30k per year.  While I can afford my Montessori school (and I think I have a pretty good income), I can't afford that kind of private school tuition.  There may be need based grants associated with this type of private, high-end school, but my family wouldn't qualify for them.  These types of private schools give needs based grants to show that they are diverse. That is all.  Middle class folks like ourselves don't qualify and we couldn't afford anyway (without major, major sacrifices).  

Edited to say that public schools of your choice here aren't so easy to get into as you think.  I reiterate my previous post that NYC is a special place with special problems.  You can assert (if you're not from  NYC, that public schools are the way to go, but public schools and the ability to get into the same of your choice is a whole different animal than where  I grew up).  I should add that the lottery-based system here also means that you may have to travel far from your neighborhood to get to school.  It is not like you can get on the bus (like I did in my youth).  You have to travel by subway and public transit to get to your school.  There are lots of other factors that play into getting to school.

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by physmom 

As a former NYer yes to all that above.

OP- I think it's worth a try to contact the school again just to see.  If it works out GREAT, if not, who cares what they think, right? Maybe just mention that you'd still be interested in the school and emphasize how pro-Montessori you are (that you went there yourself etc).  I'd also not discount the schools that are farther away.  We have to take the bus with DD to school (it's 20 min each way with no traffic but one leg of the commute due to traffic it's an hour ).  It's annoying but worth it. 

I agree with physmom.  OP, I would contact the school again because a lot of kids get accepted and then the parents back out.  In my opinion, it is worth keeping your contacts with the school of your choice.

[Shaki]

OP you may not have been rejected because of anything "wrong" you did in the interview. It may simply be that there were lots of applicants for limited spots and they first filled spots with siblings and then filled the remaining spots based on who submitted their application when (kinda first come first serve). I wouldn't take it personally unless you know for sure the rejection was because of your interview. What I would do in your situation is call the admissions person and ask if there is a waitlist and then let him/her know that you want to be on it. Say something like "we just wanted to let you know that we are so interested in this school, we'd love to be on the waiting list!" something friendly and enthusiastic like that. There usually is a waiting list and there is usually movement on the waiting list over the summer. You could still potentially get a spot.

[tangledblue]

Thanks everybody, I do feel better now. I'll just try to be good-spirited about it and give them a call. 

@CatsCradle--there was no essay question on the application, it was just a very straight up application with name, address, etc, and then the interview. Thanks for sharing your experiences...the school thing such a tough aspect of living in a major city although I love it otherwise. 

[Redmamadeb]

I can totally understand your emotional response and disappointment because your daughter didn't get into the school you thought would be great for her. Our children mean so much, and it sounds like you really want her to have the positive experiences you had in Montessori school. I can see how you might feel like it's your fault. I agree with the other writer that the decision might not have had anything to do with your interview. I also like the suggestion that you contact the school and let them know you'd like to be on the waiting list. Your daughter is lucky to have such a thoughtful and conscientious mom. Good luck!

[carmel23]

Could it have been something as simple as wanting to balance the class between incoming girls and boys?  And maybe they already filled up the girl spots?  I wouldn't take it personally. Just call and express you interest in remaining on the waitlist.  I think that that will demonstrate that you really want to go to that school.  People move, sometimes it doesn't work out for a child, etc.  We've been on lots of wait lists!

And also, the school where the teachers felt "cold," might be worth revisiting.  It is really a matter of personal preference, but sometimes people are just engaged in their job and not really 'gushing' over visitor, yk?

[tangledblue]

@carmel23, good point about revisiting the other school...but I should have clarified, I didn't think they were cold to me as a visitor...and I would understand if it was a matter of being engaged with the job and not paying attention to a visitor. But it was more the way they were with the kids, particularly a couple of interactions that bugged me. Believe me, I thought about it, because everything else about the school was great. I also heard similar comments from other parents after we had already applied. 

Thanks everyone--it really helped me to get those feelings off my chest.