I'm having trouble dealing with my 8 year old and 3 year old

[LaurenS]

I have 3 boys who are 8, 3, and 5 months. So I will forget about the baby regarding gentle discipline. DS1 is a very high strung child. A friend described him as "undiluted". He goes from 0 to 100 in less than a second. He's a great, loving child. But when someone does something to bother him, he sreams and then hits. With his friends, he has come a long way. He can still be rude and downright mean at times, but he doesn't hit too often anymore. We are still working on it. In addition to us talking about how it's not okay to hit, we do talk about how it really hurts to be rude and mean to others. I know that will change in the near future. The trouble is with his brother. His brother is 3. And DS2 knows how to press his buttons. So DS1 will be playing with legos and then DS2 comes along and knocks them down, starts laughing and runs away. Typical 3 year old behavior, annoying yes. But DS2 hurts him physically by either hitting or pulling hair until DS2 crys. Last week this happened, and we took away DS1 Lego Star Wars set for a week. This was a big big deal to DS1. We thought it would work. All week, he was better. No hitting. Then he got the set back on Monday. Tuesday, DS2 teased him and DS1 hit him. He is 8 years old and much bigger. I don't know what to do. DH made the new rule that whenever he hits, he will lose one piece of a Lego Star Wars set for good. It goes in the trash. I'm not sure this is the best way. But I need a way. The hurting has to stop. He is 8 and way much bigger. HELP PLEASE.

[Momof2crazyguys]

I am so glad to see your post because I am having the exact same issues with my two sons, ages 9 and 4 (right down to the Lego Star Wars sets!)  The only difference between our sons is that my 4 year old weighs the same as my 9 year old and so they are a pretty even match.  I just don't know what to do with them though because the fight (physical fights) all of the time.  They can go from best friends to worst enemies in a matter of seconds and then World War III breaks out in our house.  My husband and I have never really been ones to spank them, the oldest never really needed it, he wanted to please us most of the time, but the youngest does not care if we are upset with him.  So, we have been spanking him lately and I feel so awful about it, it doesn't seem right to me, and I need an alternative quick!  Time outs don't work with him, he keeps getting up and I am not strong enough to take him back to time out (he's a big kid, and he will hit me hard if I do that).  I am thinking I like your husband's idea about taking away one piece of the lego sets at a time!  Surely it wouldn't take long before they get it?  Good luck to you!

[littleheartsbks]

Not all children respond to time outs, so don't feel guilty that they aren't working for you. But responding to violence (your son hitting) with violence (hitting your son) reinforces the negative behavior instead of discouraging it. The most importan step to take is to identify what is sparking the violence. Take a close look at the circumstances surrounding the behavior. For example, is it usually around the same time of day? Is it usually over the same issue or toy? Once you've identified any patterns, work on changing the dynamics involved. If the aggression usually happens around bedtime, shift you bedtime routine to include less contact between the siblings and more individual time with a parent. If the aggression is over a particular toy, create a separate area for playing with the toy either in another room with a door to close and lock or next to you where you can closely supervise. You can also provide the child not playing with the particular toy an opportunity to play next to you with playdoh or some other special item. Sometimes reverse psychology is an effective tool. Instead of punishing the aggressor in these situations (and unintentionaly reinforcing the behavior with lots of negative attention), give them a quick hug and whisper "Not cool, kid, and you know it, but I love you anyway!" and then turn your loving attention on the injured party just long enough to make sure he's okay, and then move on like nothing happened. The key is to really listen, watch, and learn about all the dynamics of a situation, and then respond in a calm, unperturbed manner to defuse the situation. Reacting out of your own stress and frustration just escalates issues and doesn't model the desired behavior. I always encourage parents to remember the 'fire-drill' (remember 'stop, drop, and roll' from your school days?) for parents...STOP, THINK, then RESPOND... and you will end up modeling the very self-control you desire from your children.

Hope that helps! God bless.    

[LynnS6]

I'd try a couple of things (and I wouldn't throw the legos out -- too unrelated and too expensive!)

First, think about what you want him to do instead of hitting his brother (or being mean to his friends). It's one thing to tell him that he can't hit, but that leaves him without a strategy to fall back on when he's really frustrated. What's he going to do if he doesn't hit? He doesn't know what else to do, and so the old behavior comes back. Replacing an unwanted behavior with a different one is much easier than suppressing an unwanted behavior altogether.

Second, does he respond to rewards? Instead of taking away a piece of Star Wars Lego what about you buy a brand new set and he earns 1 piece for every time period where he using his new strategy instead of hitting? I'd suggest dividing the day into morning/afternoon/evening. That way he could earn up to 3 pieces of a set a day. If it's a smallish set, he could earn the whole thing in a couple of weeks. (There's a myriad of ways to work this -- you could have him earn marbles, and when the jar is full, he gets the whole lego set. I kind of like him getting the actual pieces because it's tangible. But for some kids that might be too frustrating.) If one time a day is the major problem, then maybe just focusing on that time of day.

Just remember it takes 3-4 weeks for a new behavior to become established. I like the reward vs. punishment because he can feel success and see his progress, and if he fails, he hasn't failed forever, just for that time period. I could see my kids easily giving up if they had pieces of something they loved thrown away when they slipped up, even if they were working really hard on a new behavior.

Third, what consequence does the 3 year old get? He does not deserve to be hit, but it's not fair for him to wreck his brother's stuff or taunt him and get away with it. When is your 3 year old likely to do this to his older brother? What kind of prevention can you set up to reduce the number of times this happens?

[LaurenS]

Thanks for the responses. After they fight, I tell DS1 to go in the bedroom. Then I comfort DS2. I tell him it was not okay for DS1 to hurt him. When he is calm, I tell him that it was not okay for him to throw something at DS1 or knock his toys down. He usually acts like he understands. Sometimes, DS2 has to go sit on the bed for a few minutes when he teases DS1. For years, I have always told DS1 to use words instead of hands. Sometimes telling a friend or brother to stop doesn't work. Then he is to tell me or another adult (if we are at play group and I am in the bathroom, etc). DS1 is improving with friends. We homeschool and fridays spend the day at a park with our homeschool group. He comes to me most of the time when someone does something he doesn't like. I think some of the other moms get annoyed with this, but I don't let that bother me. At home when he hits his brother, he is sent outside for 10 minutes in our fenced in backyard. He hates being outside and we explain that he has to leave so we can keep everyone safe. When he was younger ( 4 and 5) he used to hit us. So we would pick him up and put him outside. The same explanation from us, "you are out of control and we need to feel safe in our house".

Today was better. I caught him about to hit DS2 a few times and reminded him about the legos and he stopped. He is mad about the consequence. Perhaps earning a new set will be better.

Keep the advice coming, because I am at my wits end.