Starting EC with a newborn

[azhie]

Hello!

I just began learning more about EC and am really fascinated by it! I'm 31 weeks pregnant now with my first, and planned to do cloth diapering. But I'd really like to give EC a try. I figure, if the baby is going to be at home with me all the time, why does she need to be in a diaper? Couldn't I just leave her diaper-free? Or would it be messy? 

[EchoSoul]

Take comfort in getting to know your baby's patterns. For instance; my baby will poop during the first half of the feeding. So I change him, and continue feeding him, and put him to bed. After you get down your baby's patterns, then I'm sure it's easier to utilize that into making catches in the receptacle of your choice. :) I honestly think diapers are a must at first, because you learn your baby's elimination patterns without having to do a load of soiled laundry every day.

[SustainablParentng]

I would highly recommend reading a book or two on ec just to give you some more info. I bought a couple while pregnant and was convinced - rather than just considering "trying" ec. I ec'd my second child starting at 4 wks (she was not sleeping at night until around that point so couldn't handle it till then:) and now she is 21 mo and I absolutely love ec. When people ask me about it the best answer I can give is that it requires a "shift of consciousness". And for me reading the how's and why's in advance prepared me for the mental shift. ( to put the mental shift in a nutshell: on an evolutionary level babies are prepared to communicate all of their needs and no other species of animal makes their young sit in their own waste as a practice:) this for me was a personal shift of consciousness this is not meant to be a "diss" on those who choose conventional "diapering". For me it made ec'ing just the way that I cared for my infant rather than "so much work" which is how it was often described by people around me.

Having had the experience of two infants, one ec'd and one not, I highly recommend the practice and am personally looking forward to ec'ing my third who will be arriving mid October. Good luck!


"Diaper Free: The Gentle Wisdom of Natural Infant Hygiene"
Ingrid Bauer

"Infant Potty Training: A Gentle and Primeval Method Adapted to Modern Living"
Laurie Boucke

"The Diaper-Free Baby: The Natural Toilet Training Alternative"
Christine Gross-Loh

[heatherr30]

I am ECing my 2nd child who is 3 months old and I love it! 

Poops were easy for us and I've been catching most of the poops since 2-3 weeks old. However his diaper gets a bit poopy when he farts.  For this reason alone I would not consider having him diaper free all the time! 

Pees have not been so easy--he seems to be constantly peeing and usually without any warning or clear pattern. He did not signal for pees as a newborn but now sometimes does. Even so he is still not great at releasing pee sometimes even when he needs to go.  Baby pee is harmless but still there are days when I don't mind getting a little on my clothes and days when I really would rather not. 

I agree with pp that it is, for me, really about a shift in attitude. It's not a contest to see who can catch the most pees and poos. It's also not potty training.  Up to now I have probably used more diapers not less, because I change DS more often than I would have otherwise. It's really about communicating with your baby about their elimination and listening and responding to them when they tell you when they need to go, or when they are uncomfortable sitting in a wet diaper.  I figure even if you talk to them/ catch a pee a couple times a day, they are learning and practicing using those muscles.  They need to learn lots of other things too and it's very important to keep things in balance.  Whenever I start to get frustrated, that's when I call it quits for the day and just put a diaper on.  On the other hand, I like it that DS already at this young age knows what a toilet or potty is for and knows he can choose to pee or poo there instead of on himself.

[heatherr30]

Oh Yeah I also wanted to say that I think truly diaperless cultures live in places that are warm, where not a lot of clothing is needed on baby.  they do not have cushy couches and carpets to keep clean.  They do not travel in cars and go shopping in extremely hygienic supermarkets.  If they get peed on it is not a big deal.  I think that's why most Westerners who do EC, do use diapers all or part of the time. You can use a CD without the cover to get instant feedback on when your baby has peed.

[azhie]

Thank you ladies for your responses! I am reading Christine Gross-Loh's book right now. I don't need much persuasion, I'm totally sold on the concept! But now I can at least explain why I want to do this to my family, since they're going to be around a lot during baby's first couple of months. I think I grew up taking the idea of diapering for granted and never thought about other alternatives until my husband mentioned that in his country (India) they just leave babies' bottoms uncovered. When I told him about diapers he thought I was strange! Unfortunately he hardly knows anything taking care of babies, diapers or not, because baby care is left completely to the wives.

I'm interested in hearing experiences with EC-ing very young babies, how you started, the challenges, and all that. 

[EchoSoul]

Originally Posted by azhie 

Thank you ladies for your responses! I am reading Christine Gross-Loh's book right now. I don't need much persuasion, I'm totally sold on the concept! But now I can at least explain why I want to do this to my family, since they're going to be around a lot during baby's first couple of months. I think I grew up taking the idea of diapering for granted and never thought about other alternatives until my husband mentioned that in his country (India) they just leave babies' bottoms uncovered. When I told him about diapers he thought I was strange! Unfortunately he hardly knows anything taking care of babies, diapers or not, because baby care is left completely to the wives.

I'm interested in hearing experiences with EC-ing very young babies, how you started, the challenges, and all that. 

I just started, but I can share with you my experience so far. I tried it once when he was a week old; I took off his diaper to feed him, and found out that unlike when he had his diaper on during feeding, he didn't eliminate. So when he suddenly popped off my breast, I rushed him into the bathroom, but all the bouncing around must have made his weak muscles give, and he eliminated, sure... dooowwwn my shirt.

So I tried it again yesterday, he's 2 1/2 weeks old now, because in the last several days I began noticing that when he was in a disposable, he would ALWAYS eliminate during the first half of the feeding(10-15 minutes), and if I went to change his diaper just after he popped off my breast instead of waiting around and watching his face, I noticed that he would eliminate, instead, on the changing pad(which is a towel), instead of in his diaper. So I utilized that, and put the towel on my lap, took off his diaper, and breast fed for his next feeding. Having his diaper off let me better tell when he was having a bowel movement, or urinating. I mean...I can tell when he has a bowel movement in his diaper....it rumbles....but I can't tell when he urinates in the diaper. So, when he's about to pee, he'll start making LOTS of noises(which he had started suddenly doing several days earlier), and pulling on my breast - no, not pulling OFF of it - PULLING WHILE PURPOSELY STILL ATTACHED(LOL), and THEN he pees. Which is strange, because I've read usually noises indicate a bowel movement, but that's not the case with him. When he has a bowel movement, he'll stop suckling, pull his legs up a bit, do it, and then continue suckling.

So now my next step is to wait until he has head control, and actually get him into the EC hold, or set him on a baby potty. I tried doing it before, but he just cries hysterically. He really does prefer doing his business in the open air, laying on the towel.

The other awesome thing is..last night we were watching Part 1 of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, and because we were in my mother-in-law's newly furnished living room, I couldn't have his diaper off. But I noticed that while I fed him, he held off for as long as possible until he eliminated. And when I took him into the other room to change him, he eliminated again, only on the towel as soon as his diaper was off!

He did it again this morning, too. He actually slept the ENTIRE night(which is another celebration), and when he finally woke up in hunger, and I changed him, although he had eliminated in his diaper, he did it again, as soon as his diaper was off and his butt was on the towel. They really are trying to communicate...we just need to listen.

[azhie]

Thank you for sharing your experience echosoul!! 

I was actually wondering about that-- is it possible to hold a newborn over a potty at all?

[EchoSoul]

I've read that it is, yes, but it's more difficult, especially with a little boy, because while holding them/supporting their head, you also have to find a way to direct their penis when they pee. I'm sure there's several here that can share with you a good method, I'm just not interested in trying it until he can hold up his own head.

So what I've started to do, is train him to become accustomed to having his legs pulled up to eliminate. When he's laying there on the towel on my lap, I pull up on one of his legs when I think he's getting ready to eliminate. I say "train", because he's associated having his legs pulled up with a diaper change. And he HATES diaper changes. At least he's no longer screaming bloody murder now, :)

Honestly, at least with our son, the two positions he seems most ready to eliminate in is laying down, and being held upright against my chest(like when you burp them). I personally can't imagine cradling him in my arm, completely diaper-free, pulling one leg up(or both, I guess, if I used the other hand?), and trying to direct his penis all at the same time....I'm not worried about the pee,though... I'm worried about the poo. My son had his first official "blow out" just a couple hours ago, and so the velocity of which his poo comes out scares me. A lot. LOL!!! But that's just my personal thought.

[heatherr30]

I wanted to get started right away after my DS was born, but I also needed to recover from the delivery, and figure out a way to get some sleep. (DS was not a good sleeper in the first couple of weeks!)

Add to that the fact that it was Jan and very cold, not very nice for a newborn baby to go without pants on esp while sleeping and I never knew when he might go to sleep.

So actually it took a couple of weeks to really get started.  I read about people who catch the first poo, that was defn not us but I think 3 weeks old was soon enough!

In the time before he was 3 weeks old, I spent some time making the cue sound with him when he eliminated on the changing table or when I heard him poo in his diaper.  I soon discovered, like EchoSoul, that I could cue him to eliminate on the changing table.

So, I started to experiment with different holds.  I did not feel comfortable holding him over the sink, his head was just too wobbly.  (I am sure this works for some people right from the beginning though.)  What I really liked was squatting on the floor holding him over a large basin.  After a couple of weeks I discovered it was actually easier to sit together on the toilet with his head supported by my chest.  I practiced these positions first when he was fully dressed and in a good mood till we were both comfortable with them. The challenge was really to make sure he was supported enough that he felt comfortable and relaxed. 

I normally hold one thigh with each hand and then reach over with a middle finger to aim his penis downwards.  We had plenty of "catches" in the beginning that actually went all over the floor in front of the basin!  But I think the important thing is to react in a positive way even though you are going to have to clean up the floor.  It just takes a bit of practice.  If I get lazy during a poo and don't reach that finger over to aim his penis, that is when he will pee!

I don't even catch half of the pees. I have to look after his older sister too and don't have time to take him to the potty every 15 min all day long.  I catch most of the poos because they come during or right after a feed, and his signals are so obvious when I am paying attention.  The first advantage I found with EC was that he stopped getting tummy ache, because he would poo much more thoroughly in the basin, and fart loads, but hold a little back if he pood in his diaper...(sorry if TMI!)  Over the basin or toilet he really grunts and pushes and did from day 1.  I think the upright position really helps him push.  But, he did and still does prefer to pee laying down on his back.  Something about gravity.  So, if he can't pee, I have to lay him on his back, tickle or massage him a little, talk to him, then hold him up and try again.  Often I just let him have diaper free time laying on his back and throw a cloth over his groin.  Then change the cloth whenever he wets it. 

Sorry if this is rambling.  Gotta go. 

[azhie]

Thanks for sharing heatherr30. No it's not rambling, the details help me a lot in picturing the scenario...also gave me some ideas on how to go about starting EC with the baby! 

[isabchi]

EC for us is one of the way we parenting. I didn't recommend it for  some mothers that have difficult in early days post-partum , ei. breastfeeding, pain, etc.

Tips, * use the sink, large and open plactic bowl in the bed, couch, etc.

        * If you use diapers with I recommend in the beginning, I prefer flat or prefold with belts, no covers..Flat sometimes is better because you have many changes, less bulky to carry if you going out, dry faster, cheaper.

        * Cold days and errands, I love split pants or leg warmers.  

        * have a tupperware container with lid in the diaper bag.

        * be confident.

[AliceMay]

Great info from everybody. I have a 6 week old and have been giving EC a try since 2 weeks. It "worked" right away. I even had a few completely dry nights where I would wake up, pee her and nurse her back to sleep. And it was really rewarding to have some success, but I was careful to not turn it into something I needed to "accomplish", and just give it a go and be happy with the times I do catch a pee. I'm sure there are some who get right into it seriously right away, and I think that is great, but it is probably very important to give yourself permission to take some time first get comfortable as a mother, particularly with breastfeeding, since that is SO important. I mean, if you can give EC a go that is great, but be sure to not pressure yourself! 

[howeberry]

Originally Posted by azhie 

Thank you ladies for your responses! I am reading Christine Gross-Loh's book right now. I don't need much persuasion, I'm totally sold on the concept! But now I can at least explain why I want to do this to my family, since they're going to be around a lot during baby's first couple of months.

I started EC at 6 weeks to allow myself time to heal and adjust to life with a little person. Like you, I was determined to give it a go before my little guy was born.

This is how I introduced it to family.

I started EC after a nap one Monday mid-morning and it worked! so I kept up with it. When DH came home from work, I showed him. He watched for about a week before trying himself (again, after a nap), DS peed for him and DH was sold! 5 weeks later we traveled x-country to visit my family. I told them what I was doing as I walked DS to the bathroom sink to pee. My mom saw him pee, was completely amazed, told my dad and sister, and probably would have told the entire family if I hadn't asked her to not make a big deal of it!

A few weeks later we visited my MIL, I missed his cue to BM (too bad too, it was a mess!). I cleaned him up, noticed he may need to pee, took him to the bathroom and MIL saw DS pee in her sink. Again, I explained EC as he was eliminating. Her reaction was less enthusiastic, she seemed to take it personally.

Since it's suppose to be no pressure, I only talk about it when I get strange looks for taking my bare-butt babe to the bathroom, abandoning leaving diaper cover and Snappi on the floor. My friends all know what's going on at this point and seem entertained that my LO will pee in their bathroom sink.

I agree with other PP - we seem to use more diapers, not less. But finding the dry ones make me feel like I've somehow gained a diaper.

Good luck!

[SustainablParentng]

I also wanted to add how helpful it was to have my baby in a sling (or other carrier - I mostly used a sling because it was very quick and easy to pop my dd out and back in to go pee or poo in the sink:) As time progressed, and I was more aware of her cues, the sling made it very easy to pick up her physical cues. I read that babies will try hard not to eliminate on you and I found this to definitely be true. I would keep her bare bottomed in the sling with a prefold tucked between her legs - just in case:) - and she would really get squirmy when she had to go. I always had way more "catches" when I wore her - she would hold it longer and definitely communicate "harder" in her attempts to not pee/poo where she ate:) - she nursed constantly in the sling as well because I had her older brother to chase:). - for me, babywearing and ec'ing went hand in hand - if you haven't already, definitely check out some different carriers that you might use.

[moon.mom]

I love reading your experiences. very similar to ours.

my now 5 year old noticed the other day that the barn swallow birds that live on our front porch- have bird poop all under the nest- on the porch.  she asked me why there was so much poop.  I said, "because the babies don't want to poop or pee in their nest.  like the way we don't poop or pee in our bed, or on the couch, etc."

she was thoughtful for awhile...then she said,  "is that why we pee and poop little brother in the sink and potty?"

and we talked about how we did that with her, too when she was a baby.

little brother is 7 weeks old- and it's been going pretty good.  we are in a drought- and trying not to use much water-

so we have been using disposable diapers more than I'd like to- but we actually are able to take them off- pee him- then put them back on several times.

i feel fortunate- we just try our best- watch him- pretty much any noise at this point (7 weeks old) means something.

When pooping- he actually grunts sometimes...it's cute.  :-)

i was worried a little about the direction of pee (with a boy) but it hasn't been a big deal.  not anymore than our daughter was, really.

don't get discouraged- for us it IS all about communication.  (and hopefully using less diapers- having to wash diapers/cloths/towels less)

[moon.mom]

oh yeah- both my babies have wanted to nurse- even just a little bit- when they need to poop.

not sure if there's something physical about it- or just comforting?

[AliceMay]

Did you nurse your babies while you had them over the toilet or bowl or something? Or did they poop onto I diaper? I catch lots of pees but am still trying to work out the poops. She only goes once ever 3/4 days (so obviously it would be nice to catch since it is a big mess and she hates it. Once had success when she started to go and then I took her to the toilet but I'm curious what other people do. (she is 12 weeks now)

[heatherr30]

I didn't dare NOT nurse DS when he first woke up, at the newborn stage.  He would really protest if I didn't put him to the breast right away.

I just watched him really closely and if he showed signs of squirming, pulling at the nipple, basically not getting down to business, I took him off the breast and to the toilet QUICK!

He wore a diaper till we got to the bathroom so if I was too slow there was no accident.  But we almost always got there in time and as he got older he would hold it till the end of the nursing session most of the time.

I have never needed to nurse him WHILE he poops.    Rather I would intererupt his nursing session to take him to the toilet, then resume nursing again afterwards.

Pees are a different story, I guess I could catch more of those if I was willing to nurse him over a bowl.  I don't mind changing wet diapers which is probably why he still pees in his diaper. :)

[AliceMay]

thanks. just goes to show how individual babies are. I pee DD after nursing, ow between each side but she rarely goes while nursing. I'm getting better at spotting the fussiness at the breast that comes before she poops... but I don't get much practice what with the every  3/4 days thing. But i think she may be starting to change that pattern...