My Mom's dog nips at DD

[Ldavis24]

She is a Doberman (our family is very experienced with the breed so that isn't the problem) that is a little over a year. They have had her since she was about 5 weeks old due to being the runt (you couldn't tell by how huge she is now) and the mama dog rejecting her. 

This dog is sweet....but, she is not a huge fan of DD. You can see it in her body language that DD's erratic (typical toddler) movements and random noises makes her very uncomfortable. She gets "that look". The look that says I am not comfortable with this and I make sure I keep DD away from her when she has that look. Actually I don't trust the dog as far as I can throw her so I NEVER leave DD alone in the same room with the dog. Despite this, literally 3 feet from me this dog has nipped at DD 3 times. She got her fingers lightly once and I was ANGRY. DD was not doing anything to actually warrant the nips, just near the dog and the one time the dog actually touched her with her teeth DD was standing by the dog's butt and slipped and fell down next to the dog's butt, not on the dog next to it...

I am super uncomfortable with this dog around DD...However, my mother is of the opinion that nothing will happen..I disagree, we don't go up to visit often but it makes visits very stressful when I am spending most of my time making sure DD doesn't close to the dog, or annoy the dog or try to take a toy from the dog or get near the dog when it is eating...see where I am going...

Personally, I think my mom got the dog from a bad breeder, it has had a myriad of health problems related to her urinary tract and I think some of the behavior is frankly just bad breeding. Dobies went through a time where bad breeding practically destroyed the breed and people have been working hard to breed the gentle behavior back into the dogs..

How would you handle this. Honestly, I wish they would just get rid of the stupid dog (this coming from a dog lover)..This dog is skittish and standoffish with strangers, she doesn't like kids and she is a major hyperactive mess. I can guarantee that they will never get rid of this dog though. I have told my mom it makes me very uncomfortable that the dog behaves the way it does around DD and my mom has agreed to my request that DD NEVER be alone with the dog but all the times the dog has nipped at DD I have been right there. So clearly being alone with the dog isn't the real issue..

I haven't been up to visit in a about a month and I don't even want to really go (for various reason this being one of them)...The dog stresses me out and she is really just annoying. My mom doesn't see the big deal I don't think and I am wondering when they will figure out this is a problem...when DD gets bit and needs stitches?

WWYD?

[daisymama12]

What about asking her to keep the dog in its crate if it has one, and if not, just keep it in a separate room? Then you won't have to worry. 

[Ldavis24]

I hadn't thought about that...Separate room might work but it isn't realistic to keep the dog in the crate for most of the time we are there...

The biggest issue is the push back from dear old mom...Of course her dog would NEVER hurt someone blah blah blah. She irritatingly insists that this dog views DD and I as "family" and she would protect us etc. 

I am curious if anyone else has ever had a dog issue like this? It brings to the forefront the problems that arise when one person doesn't think their dog could be dangerous and other people definitely see it differently...I suppose it would be out of line to insist she get rid of the dog...What happens when DD is older (4,5,6) and is running around even more...how long is the dog supposed to stay separated when we visit or crated even...As long as it takes, I suppose..

[daisymama12]

If I thought my child was in danger of being bitten, and the dog wouldn't be separated, then I  wouldn't go there anymore, I'd invite mum over, meet her places, etc. It's just not worth the stress. 

My own dog is a rescue, and I never worry about him around my kids. A few months after we adopted him (shelter dog, we got him a year ago at 9 months old) he started to bark at visitors in the house. After trying out different solutions, we now put him in a separate, gated room while we have visitors over - no problems, no worries. For some dog-savvy adults, he gets to come out, but otherwise he gets a nice bone to chew on, and settles down. The other thing I do is make sure to exercise him vigorously before guests come over, so he settles nicely.

If the guests stay for a long time (over 3 hours), I may take him out for a 15 minute walk while they're here...

[greenmagick]

Well, I can almost promise the dog is from a bad breeder with the fact that the pup was given away at 5 weeks!!!!  That is way too young.  Doesnt matter if the mom is pushing them away or not (which by 5 weeks she will be) they need to be with littermates and mama til at least 8 weeks...most states its illegal to sell before 8 weeks.  

Nipping is the dogs way of warning..she is not comfortable with the situation and your are exactly right, without interference and help it WILL escalate.  Either a behaviorist gets involved NOW or your daughter and the dog need to be kept totally separate (and even getting a behaviorist involved, the dog still may never be safe to have around kids)

What is the dog doing before the bites?  Dogs dont bite out of nowhere, there are always signs first unless the dog has been punished for showing those signs.  There are things that can be done to help a dog become comfortable around children, strangers, etc but its something your mom would have to do as its not something that will work without a lot of time put in.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by greenmagick 

Well, I can almost promise the dog is from a bad breeder with the fact that the pup was given away at 5 weeks!!!!  That is way too young.  Doesnt matter if the mom is pushing them away or not (which by 5 weeks she will be) they need to be with littermates and mama til at least 8 weeks...most states its illegal to sell before 8 weeks.  

Nipping is the dogs way of warning..she is not comfortable with the situation and your are exactly right, without interference and help it WILL escalate.  Either a behaviorist gets involved NOW or your daughter and the dog need to be kept totally separate (and even getting a behaviorist involved, the dog still may never be safe to have around kids)

What is the dog doing before the bites?  Dogs dont bite out of nowhere, there are always signs first unless the dog has been punished for showing those signs.  There are things that can be done to help a dog become comfortable around children, strangers, etc but its something your mom would have to do as its not something that will work without a lot of time put in.

You are speaking to the choir on this one! I was so annoyed with my mom for thinking this was ok...It is so not ok but they did it and it is done..Personally I think they (mom and her gf) were happy to have her so young because she could be really "bonded" to them. I use that term loosely.  With all the knowledge about how VERY important the sibling/mama relationship is to dog's developing well socially I totally understand why a lot of breeders won't part with the pups until 10 or 12 weeks. The reason I say bad breeder or backyard breeder is because of the health issues this dog has had...non stop, since she was a baby basically, they are only recently getting it under control in the past 3 months or so. 

Just an example since you asked here is one incidence when the dog nipped DD (I should have stopped it, I was sitting there but talking to my mom at the time)...DD was running around the living room and the dog was laying down in front of the couch, DD ran over to the dog and tried to pet her back leg but the dog nipped her almost immediately. What I did notice though was that the dog had "that look" the ears back in a negative manner, the concerned eyes and a tension in the body that I should have paid attention to to alert me to her total discomfort with the situation. 

Other times it has been DD just being a kid, bumped into the dog once and the scariest time that actually didn't happen was when the dog was laying on the couch and was awake (didn't get startled from sleep) and DD went up to her face and the dog did the slightest lip raise an growl..I swooped DD up immediately. But WTH, I can't even allow DD to look at the stupid dog without it growling at her?? 

At this point my mom actually called me up today and asked when I was coming up again. I didn't mention the dog but I think I am going to explain that the dog needs to see a behavioralist (I doubt they will shell out the money for that one) and she needs to be gated away from DD at all times. I can't take the chance, this is a 100 pound puppy who has issues with kids.  They do yell at the dog for showing these signs and frankly, now I wonder if that is a terrible idea because she really could snap at some random kid in a park or something. Then again she growls at every person who walks by her so I doubt many parents would let their kids near the scary Doberman anyway. I do blame my mom and her GF for some of the issues. They never tried to socialize this dog and it shows. I'm not even allowed to bring up my super friendly dog because their dog can't handle another dog in the house without causing a #^%@$% storm periodically, they do alright but there are always spats when I had brought my dog...My dog who lets DD pull a ball out of her mouth and let's DD hand feed her dinner one piece at a time..We got her from a shelter and my mom turns her nose up at our dog...Sigh another rant for another day.

[SkylarVT]

You are doing the right thing. This dog has serious issues and will likely become more aggressive as she gets older unless your mom and her partner start to take this seriously and work with a behaviorist, (and if this is temperament based then there is a good chance that a behaviorist may only be able to give them tools to help them understand how to manage the dog to keep her out of situations in which she may bite). I would not settle with having them put the dog in a separate room unless the dog is in a crate in the room, or the door has a solid key lock. I shudder to think what would happen if your dd were to get a little bigger and open the door and end up face to face with this dog. Tons of red flags here! Be very firm with your mother that you will not be visiting unless the dog is contained and leave if she lets the dog out. I am a behaviorist/trainer in real life btw, and this is the type of case that scares me. If the owners do not see that the dog has a problem they will keep making excuses until something really major happens and someone gets hurt.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by SkylarVT 

You are doing the right thing. This dog has serious issues and will likely become more aggressive as she gets older unless your mom and her partner start to take this seriously and work with a behaviorist, (and if this is temperament based then there is a good chance that a behaviorist may only be able to give them tools to help them understand how to manage the dog to keep her out of situations in which she may bite). I would not settle with having them put the dog in a separate room unless the dog is in a crate in the room, or the door has a solid key lock. I shudder to think what would happen if your dd were to get a little bigger and open the door and end up face to face with this dog. Tons of red flags here! Be very firm with your mother that you will not be visiting unless the dog is contained and leave if she lets the dog out. I am a behaviorist/trainer in real life btw, and this is the type of case that scares me. If the owners do not see that the dog has a problem they will keep making excuses until something really major happens and someone gets hurt.

Thank you for your opinion and advice. 

I think the reason getting them to realize the seriousness of the matter is this: a lot of the time the dog is good with DD, they both mind their own business but DD loves dogs so she is often interested in saying hi to the dog etc...Part of that problem is because our own dog is so incredibly tolerant of everything DD does and loves DD (runs up immediately when DD cries when she's sleeping. Goes to greet her first when we all wake up, DD feeds her EVERYTHING and it is super annoying. They are as thick as thieves and DD thinks all dogs are like her Billie. I know DD thinks this just by how she acts around dogs, we have worked very hard to teach her to NEVER touch a dog unless the owner says it is ok but the kid is only 2 so there will be mistakes.

So mostly what they see is their dog being alright around DD, even friendly at times. I think they only saw 1 nipping incident out of those that occurred and I did tell them BOTH exactly what happened the other times and I was clear on the last trip DD and dog are NEVER to be alone together but in my head, logic says this won't be the end of it just based on what I know about that kind of behavior and dogs in general.

My mom is going to flip out. I am fully predicting they WILL NOT crate the dog..maybe lock her up for some of the time but not all of it. I would suggest they send the dog to a nice kennel for our visit but their miss precious is too special to EVER be separated from both of them for more than a day.

I just don't know how to carefully and gently bring this up without it going badly.
 

[GoBecGo]

I have a story.

My Grandmother was a dog trainer (as in very celebrated, wrote several books about it, did it all her life, and so on!) and kept German Shepherds.  They were generally ok dogs, though not used to kids.  She had one though, a dog, who was always a bit, well, crazy.  She too took him from a breeder as a favour because he'd been the runt and was a bit...weird.  She managed to train him mainly (as in obedience training) but he was still kind of weird.  He was strange around us.  He "stalked" us, he watched us intently as they will watch rabbits in the fields before they begin to chase.  He was WEIRD!

Anyway my mother told my gran "that dog doesn't like the kids, i don't want him around them" and my gran poohpooh'd the idea and said he was fine.  Her house had a baize door separating the upstairs (where the guest bedrooms were) from the downstairs (where the main living areas and my g'parents bedrooms were).  One morning my brother opened that door, with me right behind him and as he walked through the dog leapt for his throat snarling.  My dad, by some miracle, was there too, and grabbed the dog's collar.  I vividly remember seeing those huge white teeth and red throat less than a foot from my face, and hearing the loud snap of the teeth closing not even an inch from my brother's throat.  My dad had to put 3 twists round his fist in the collar before the dog stopped trying to bite.  It was literally blue in the mouth before it stopped and it never once tried to turn on my dad, even though it was him holding it, it was completely fixated on my brother.

From that visit on the dogs were crated or penned during our visits.  They had the run of the house at night and there was a magnet put on the handle of the baize door so we could know that the dogs were out and not to come out.  A few years later that same dog got loose in a sheep field and tore the throats from 3 sheep and caused 2 more to miscarry their lambs.  He was then euthanised.

Don't take the risk, it isn't worth it.  Tell your mom the dog and your DD need to NEVER be together, alone or not.

[SkylarVT]

Originally Posted by Ldavis24 

My mom is going to flip out. I am fully predicting they WILL NOT crate the dog..maybe lock her up for some of the time but not all of it. I would suggest they send the dog to a nice kennel for our visit but their miss precious is too special to EVER be separated from both of them for more than a day.

I just don't know how to carefully and gently bring this up without it going badly.
 

Unfortunately, I don't think you can bring this up without it going badly. You just need to set clear boundaries and try not to get sucked into arguing with her about this. You are the Mama now so you get to decide what needs to be done to keep dd safe. I have a mother with boundary issues, (as well as other issues), so what I have done is make a statement and refuse to argue. As in "You may come visit at my home without the dog, or we will come visit you if the dog is crated in a separate room for the full length of the visit and leash walked out to the yard and back.". If she argues, tell her that you have made your decision and that she is welcome to call you back when she makes hers. If you go over to her house and she lets the dog out at any time be prepared to pick up and leave immediately. A dog that has already snapped at your dd and growls at passing strangers will eventually bite, (unless they try to work on it now), and you need to make sure that your dd is not on the receiving end of that bite. You are not out of line to think that your dd should be able to LOOK at a dog without getting snapped at.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by SkylarVT 

Unfortunately, I don't think you can bring this up without it going badly. You just need to set clear boundaries and try not to get sucked into arguing with her about this. You are the Mama now so you get to decide what needs to be done to keep dd safe. I have a mother with boundary issues, (as well as other issues), so what I have done is make a statement and refuse to argue. As in "You may come visit at my home without the dog, or we will come visit you if the dog is crated in a separate room for the full length of the visit and leash walked out to the yard and back.". If she argues, tell her that you have made your decision and that she is welcome to call you back when she makes hers. If you go over to her house and she lets the dog out at any time be prepared to pick up and leave immediately. A dog that has already snapped at your dd and growls at passing strangers will eventually bite, (unless they try to work on it now), and you need to make sure that your dd is not on the receiving end of that bite. You are not out of line to think that your dd should be able to LOOK at a dog without getting snapped at.

I like the "make a statement and then it's over" type deal. Unfortunately they live almost 4 hours away so going there is at least an over night commitment for DD's sake...I can just picture them asking me what is so special about our dog or something...Why do I trust her so much??! You know? To which I can confidently answer after spending every single day (bar a few weekends I was visiting my mom)  I know my dog, I trust her. Even though I trust her I still always keep an eye on her and DD because a dog is a dog and you just never know. 

I honestly feel badly because I didn't make a huge deal about it last time I was there. I told them my concerns but I didn't really emphasize it but the more I think about it the more it alarms me. I DO NOT trust that dog at all. I myself am uncomfortable around her (not for me but for DD)... Dobies can be real sweethearts but it is so important to pick the right breeder because bad breeding has been a major problem in the past.

This dog is their baby and I know it is not going to go well. I am steeling myself for a miserable conversation with my mom. Ugh. I have to go visit soon, she actually called today and asked when we were coming up next because it has been about a month. I will take the good suggestions here and absolutely put them to good use during my talk with her.

I am very comfortable around most dogs but this is an exception, something I haven't really had to deal with before, it is hard not to feel like maybe I am overreacting but obviously DD comes first and if I feel uncomfortable I know it is with good reason.

[SkylarVT]

Yeah, don't let your mom make you second guess yourself about her dog when you talk to her. If you were to call any behaviorist they would definitely tell you to NEVER have the dog around your dd. I am not even one of the more conservative behaviorists around, I think that kids can be fine with their own dogs unsupervised. I let our three year old Golden sleep with my kids in their room and I once found my three year old son brushing the dog's teeth, (with MY toothbrush). I let my kids pet stranger's dogs at the park, but if I saw behavior like what your mom''s Dobie exhibits I would never let the dog near my kids. YOUR dog is trustworthy around your dd because he has proven himself to be, her dog has proven the opposite.

 You may want to google "German Shepherd weak nerves" and see if this sounds like your mom's dog. I have seen the same type of behavior in Dobies expressed as inappropriate aggression, especially towards little people that move fast or any adult that is a little different than the norm, (like an adult that limps, uses a cane, is wearing a large hat, or is of a different skin coloring than the owner). Lastly, this dog's mama may have seen a genetic defect in this dog and rejected her because of it. Most reputable breeders will do an extensive work up on an abandoned puppy, (if mama cares for the rest of the litter), or a runt that doesn't gain weight after rotating the feeding so that he/she is fed more often than the rest of the litter. I have rarely seen a mama dog reject a healthy puppy.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by SkylarVT 

Yeah, don't let your mom make you second guess yourself about her dog when you talk to her. If you were to call any behaviorist they would definitely tell you to NEVER have the dog around your dd. I am not even one of the more conservative behaviorists around, I think that kids can be fine with their own dogs unsupervised. I let our three year old Golden sleep with my kids in their room and I once found my three year old son brushing the dog's teeth, (with MY toothbrush). I let my kids pet stranger's dogs at the park, but if I saw behavior like what your mom''s Dobie exhibits I would never let the dog near my kids. YOUR dog is trustworthy around your dd because he has proven himself to be, her dog has proven the opposite.

 You may want to google "German Shepherd weak nerves" and see if this sounds like your mom's dog. I have seen the same type of behavior in Dobies expressed as inappropriate aggression, especially towards little people that move fast or any adult that is a little different than the norm, (like an adult that limps, uses a cane, is wearing a large hat, or is of a different skin coloring than the owner). Lastly, this dog's mama may have seen a genetic defect in this dog and rejected her because of it. Most reputable breeders will do an extensive work up on an abandoned puppy, (if mama cares for the rest of the litter), or a runt that doesn't gain weight after rotating the feeding so that he/she is fed more often than the rest of the litter. I have rarely seen a mama dog reject a healthy puppy.

Skylar you are speaking the truth! I love it. It is giving me the confidence to know that I am right (I knew I was but you know what I mean)...Honestly, I know there is something "off" about this dog. She was not a healthy baby and frankly I imagine the mama dog was just gonna let her die. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was some genetic component going on..hence bad breeding comments from me...Bad breeder too I'm sure. 

Our dog is a girl btw...We got her from the shelter with the name Billie, I wouldn't have picked it myself...She is actually half shepherd and half lab, she looks almost like a black german shepherd, you can see a lot of it in her and very little lab...I trust this dog completely but once in a while I still feel it is appropriate to give her space from DD. Like tonight I boiled some marrow bones for doggy and DD wasn't allowed to bother billie while she was eating her treat. I love this dog so much just for how loving she is with DD. She snoozes next to DD at nap time and cuddles with her. Follows her around the yard while DD holds a stick out playfully and the dog might take the stick but she always drops it for DD to pick up again. It is just so precious, I could write a novel about it.

For all my love of German Shepherds (my favorite breed by far, although I have mostly owned mutts) I have never heard of this weak nerve thing and I find it highly intriguing. I have read some really interesting stuff online tonight and I am freaking out! This dog fits the general description of "weak nerves" to a T...She is skittish around everything. Any noise sets her off barking like crazy and it takes you yelling at her or going directly to her to get her to stop, 10 seconds later she is barking at a noise again. She growls at random strangers who just walk by and shies away from them. She is uneasy a lot of the time and you can tell it from her body language. So in a nutshell WTH am I going to do? I don't even know what to say to my mom because the more I piece the whole thing together the more I don't even want to bring DD up to Maine to visit them. That dog is literally a ticking time bomb and I am terrified of DD being the recipient of a Doberman's issues. 

My mom is going to flip out when I try to explain to her why I don't want DD around her, I know it...I am just floored with the weak nerves info I have been reading. It is just ringing so true for me and hitting so close to home. This is a much more dire situation than I had realized. Ugh, this is going to be a nightmare of a talk.."Hey mom, sorry but your dog is basically damaged good, bad genetics (which I guessed at anyway) and is a threat to pretty much everyone including your granddaughter.." I don't suppose I could just convince them to give their precious perfect away...Nah.

Thank you again Skylar, most illuminating. This is touching on an area I recognize well but didn't have the correct terminology for. 

I think I am actually going to call a few behaviorists in my mom's area and just chat with them a bit to beef up my argument for my mother. I want her to know I am not just taking this lightly. I will even suggest a few behaviorists if I can find some good ones. Although I don't know how much they can do because you can't change the temperment of a dog as I have been reading (and generally knew).

The whole situation makes me feel so lucky to have our doggie. She is just so sweet and had been through the ringer before we got her. 3 times through the shelter and originally abused. I think I am going to let her sleep on the bed with us tonight for extra cuddles and warmth. She likes to sleep on her back legs straight in the air between DH and I while DD sleeps on the other side of me.

[greenmagick]

I am glad you are feeling more confident and secure...It is definitely a tough spot to be in!

(And I just have to mention....why are you boiling the bones, they are so much better for the pup raw!)

[KayTeeJay]

Ok, just skimmed the posts since I am NAK, but uh, yeah, 5 weeks? That's reprehensible. Aside from the other myriad problems this can cause, puppies learn bite inhibition with each other. Your moms dog didn't have a chance to learn what's acceptable among friends and what isn't. Your mom's comment about the dog and your DD being "family" made me laugh. Do dogs sit around and drink wine while discussing current events with their families? No, they wrestle and play and bite each other! That being said, if the dog wanted to hurt your DD, she would have. She's had several opportunities, and has so far only warned your DD. That's the good news. You are right on to never let them be alone together, and if your mom can't abide by this, your DD shouldn't be left at her house, IMO. Also, I completely disagree with the pp who said she's "likely" to get more aggressive. That's impossible to know without being assessed by a certified behaviorist. Aggression is a term thrown around far too lightly, and what folks call "aggression" is highly situational and conditional--another reason someone who knows what they're doing needs to observe the dog on her own turf.  I am in the midwest, but I know some folks up your way who could recommend a behaviorist if you're interested.

[minnowmomma]

I find it funny when i hear people say the dogs ONLY nipped ,if there is any teeth on skin contact it is a BITE.Just because they didn't hold on or get a mouth full of flesh doesn't make it less serious.Your mom needs to get priorities straight,her dog having free run of the house is not more important than her grandaughter's saftey.If it is that important to her then her gf can stay at home with the dog and she can come visit you.And i really want to know why she thinks its ok to ask you to drive 4 hours to have your baby menaced by her dog but it not ok for her to drive the same distance to keep your baby safe.Basically what she is telling you is that her dog is more important,sorry that would never fly with me.Your baby depends on you to protect her so don't cave in to your moms emotional blackmail cause even if her dog "really bit" your dd she would find a way for it to not be the dogs fault.Stand firm cause as a parent this is only the first time your will be forced to take a stand about what is in your dd best interest..

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by KayTeeJay 

Ok, just skimmed the posts since I am NAK, but uh, yeah, 5 weeks? That's reprehensible. Aside from the other myriad problems this can cause, puppies learn bite inhibition with each other. Your moms dog didn't have a chance to learn what's acceptable among friends and what isn't. Your mom's comment about the dog and your DD being "family" made me laugh. Do dogs sit around and drink wine while discussing current events with their families? No, they wrestle and play and bite each other! That being said, if the dog wanted to hurt your DD, she would have. She's had several opportunities, and has so far only warned your DD. That's the good news. You are right on to never let them be alone together, and if your mom can't abide by this, your DD shouldn't be left at her house, IMO. Also, I completely disagree with the pp who said she's "likely" to get more aggressive. That's impossible to know without being assessed by a certified behaviorist. Aggression is a term thrown around far too lightly, and what folks call "aggression" is highly situational and conditional--another reason someone who knows what they're doing needs to observe the dog on her own turf.  I am in the midwest, but I know some folks up your way who could recommend a behaviorist if you're interested.

that would be great, although my Mom lives in Maine so if you are familiar with any that would be the general state (or Western NH) where I would need them.

Oh also I didn't know the marrow bones were ok raw! I was told that you HAD to cook them!! Thats cool because they are nasty when boiling. However, is it ok for them to be raw if DD handles them? She is always grabbing toys from the dog and then getting the dog to amble after her in a half arsed attempt to chase..DD thinks it is hilarious as doggie slowly follows her around the room.. Then DD puts her fingers in her mouth?? That is the only concern I would have about not boiling the bones first.

DH and I have been talking about this extensively tonight, knowing my mom and her GF and how they feel about their dog, especially GF who has been raising Dobies for 30 years...We want to TRY at least to be sympathetic and understanding while making it clear that DD's safety is paramount and we will take whatever measures we have to, to be sure..

To the bolded, while I agree with you in theory the problem is the reality of the situation. We don't know, even if evaluated by a behaviorist, if the dog will or won't get more aggressive. The fact that the dog could have hurt DD, or bitten her at least, and hasn't doesn't mean that the next time she won't. There is just no way to know at all until it happens and unfortunately this is the type of situation where we CANNOT just "wait to see" if it happens. We have to act like it will because the alternative (it happening) is unacceptable...You know what I mean? That is why it is so hard. I have to assume the worst, I don't have the luxury of giving the dog the benefit of the doubt because the consequences could be staggering. 

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by minnowmomma 

I find it funny when i hear people say the dogs ONLY nipped ,if there is any teeth on skin contact it is a BITE.Just because they didn't hold on or get a mouth full of flesh doesn't make it less serious.Your mom needs to get priorities straight,her dog having free run of the house is not more important than her grandaughter's saftey.If it is that important to her then her gf can stay at home with the dog and she can come visit you.And i really want to know why she thinks its ok to ask you to drive 4 hours to have your baby menaced by her dog but it not ok for her to drive the same distance to keep your baby safe.Basically what she is telling you is that her dog is more important,sorry that would never fly with me.Your baby depends on you to protect her so don't cave in to your moms emotional blackmail cause even if her dog "really bit" your dd she would find a way for it to not be the dogs fault.Stand firm cause as a parent this is only the first time your will be forced to take a stand about what is in your dd best interest..

Well unfortunately my mother has this charming belief that she is above driving to visit us...ever. I have lived here for over 6 years and she has literally come down TWICE...The first time she only stayed for 3 hours and then drove the 4 hours back to Maine (crazy I know!)...The second was when DD was born, she was supposed to stay for a full 2 weeks and ended up staying for 5 days, so yeah she has some interesting beliefs about visiting and who should be visiting whom, believe this is a major PITA to me and something I am working on because I just can't do the drive as often anymore, I get migraines driving that distance and DH is usually working so can't come...

To the bolded also, DH and I were literally just talking about this very point. This is the first really crappy not fun parenting thing we have had to do for DD. We can't mess around and it is going to go poorly no matter what, we know that but we have to do it anyway...Yay parenthood

[KayTeeJay]

Good deal, I have lots of contacts in that area so I'll see what I can dig up.

Also, I completely agree with your comments, you are right on. I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear on that in my first post--was just trying to get all my thoughts out while the baby was happy nursing. :) "Waiting to see" what happens would be setting the dog up to fail and of course, would be terrible for your DD. I just wanted to counter the knee-jerk reaction to immediately brand the dog dangerous and aggressive. **Disclaimer: I can't get that to come out right without sounding snarky, but I swear it isn't meant to! It's completely normal to have that reaction, and your first and only job is to protect your DD.** However, perhaps with some behaviorist input and work from your mother and her GF, the dog and your DD can coexist during your visits. I really do wish you the best of luck in navigating this!
 

Originally Posted by Ldavis24 

that would be great, although my Mom lives in Maine so if you are familiar with any that would be the general state (or Western NH) where I would need them.

To the bolded, while I agree with you in theory the problem is the reality of the situation. We don't know, even if evaluated by a behaviorist, if the dog will or won't get more aggressive. The fact that the dog could have hurt DD, or bitten her at least, and hasn't doesn't mean that the next time she won't. There is just no way to know at all until it happens and unfortunately this is the type of situation where we CANNOT just "wait to see" if it happens. We have to act like it will because the alternative (it happening) is unacceptable...You know what I mean? That is why it is so hard. I have to assume the worst, I don't have the luxury of giving the dog the benefit of the doubt because the consequences could be staggering. 

[Ldavis24]

No worries!. Thank you for any info you can provide regarding behaviorists. I only have a minute because DD needs a nap...We've been doing the burn pile today and our dog was pulling on a large branch attached to a tree and she let go of it and it slammed into DD's face hard enough to give her a bloody lip and the poor kid looks like a boxer...I think my dog is the dangerous one and she doesn't even mean to be! 

So basically I will agree that there can be a knee jerk reaction often but in this case I would say that the dog IS dangerous. She is highly unpredictably and from all that I have read myself I would definitely say she is a "weak nerved" dog. You can't anticipate her behavior which is scary to me, although I watch her closely for any signs and can see when things are getting uncomfortable for her. Ugh I want to type more but gotta run! I'll be back later.

Originally Posted by KayTeeJay 

Good deal, I have lots of contacts in that area so I'll see what I can dig up.

Also, I completely agree with your comments, you are right on. I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear on that in my first post--was just trying to get all my thoughts out while the baby was happy nursing. :) "Waiting to see" what happens would be setting the dog up to fail and of course, would be terrible for your DD. I just wanted to counter the knee-jerk reaction to immediately brand the dog dangerous and aggressive. **Disclaimer: I can't get that to come out right without sounding snarky, but I swear it isn't meant to! It's completely normal to have that reaction, and your first and only job is to protect your DD.** However, perhaps with some behaviorist input and work from your mother and her GF, the dog and your DD can coexist during your visits. I really do wish you the best of luck in navigating this!