My Mom's dog nips at DD - Page 2

[Arduinna]

I see a whole bunch of red flags here going all the way back to the fact that the dog was brought home too young. I don't want to get off topic but I completely disagree with PP that anytime a dogs mouth touches you it's a bite and there is no such thing as a nip. Nipping is a warning and in a normal stable dog interacting with a person that has the capacity to understand does not mean the dog is dangerous it can mean I'm in pain, I'm scared or a variety of other things. This dog does not sound stable though and it sounds like it's lack proper socialization skills at least partly from being removed from it's mom and siblings too soon. 

Since it isn't your dog at the this point the only thing you can do is insist that your mom crate or separate the dog during your visit or refuse to go to her house. If you do visit I'd make sure I budgeted in hotel costs in case she doesn't take you seriously. It sounds like you might have prove you are willing to set limits and maintain them.

[scottishmommy]

This is a non negotiable situation. Either the dog goes away while you visit, or you're not visiting. If your mom has a problem with that, well, too darn bad. She'll just have to do without seeing her grandkid.

[minnowmomma]

Originally Posted by scottishmommy 

This is a non negotiable situation. Either the dog goes away while you visit, or you're not visiting. If your mom has a problem with that, well, too darn bad. She'll just have to do without seeing her grandkid.

Yeah this!Of course from what has been described it sounds as if the visits are more about her having power that actually enjoying the baby(ie mom MUST drive up ,grandmom WON'T separate the dog for baby's saftey)

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by minnowmomma 

Yeah this!Of course from what has been described it sounds as if the visits are more about her having power that actually enjoying the baby(ie mom MUST drive up ,grandmom WON'T separate the dog for baby's saftey)

Ok to be fair my mom is a great grandmother. She adores DD...It isn't all about power but we also have some major mother daughter issues so I am sure that plays into things...

As far as won't separate dog and baby, I haven't told her I expect that yet. The last nip happened the same day DD and I were leaving so I didn't think too much about it at the time...To be fair to her she might take it better than I expect (I doubt it unfortunately) and maybe she will listen to what I have to say...Ok so yeah I am stretching here but she hasn't said no yet because I haven't asked...I have to think she will put DD first even if she is upset and it takes her a day or two to realize it...

It is a hard thing to hear, they think I love this dog, mostly it annoys and makes me uncomfortable. I love dogs so this is weird for me to not really like a dog I know pretty well. They feel like this dog just "LOVES" DD and I and I strongly disagree about DD. This is going to come out of left field for both of them...Ugh still dreading it. I will update though as soon as I talk to her because I am sure I will need to vent
 

[RabbitMomma]

I love Dobermans to death, but they need to be socialised like mad when they're puppies, and if they aren't they often have problems arise with strangers or people who are not part of their everyday life. They are guard dogs and thus can be very finicky about who is in their territory. So if the dog wasn't around a lot of children during his puppy years, it's likely that's the cause of his behaviour.

Honestly since it's not your dog, there's very little you can do. It's going to be up to your mom to correct any bad behaviour he's having around your daughter, as it would be very difficult for you to do so yourself. Maybe you could suggest that your mom gets a dog trainer to come over and help with the situation, and maybe chip in some money for one? Positive reinforcement around your daughter is the first step, when the dog is showing good behaviour your mom should praise him and give him a small treat, and obviously every good interaction he has with your daughter should be rewarded as well. The dog should be kept on a leash when you and your daughter are over, because a dog nipping a child (or anyone for that matter) is a very serious thing, no matter what the breed. It's something that really needs to be corrected immediately, and if it were my kid I would not take her over there at all until the behaviour is fixed. Telling your mom this may push her into fixing his behaviour and getting an experienced dog trainer in there to help her out.

Basically what he needs is to be reintroduced to children and given positive experiences around them. If your mom is dedicated to solving this problem, it is very doable.

[Virginia Mom]

Okay, your mom is like my mom.........I hate to say this, but just do a bold face lie and tell her that your DD is allergic to the dog...and the doctor said no way no how can she be around it........get an epi pen, or bring a big bottle of benedryl to make it 'look good'..........hey, sometimes grandmas are crazy.....

[lonegirl]

Originally Posted by Ldavis24 

that would be great, although my Mom lives in Maine so if you are familiar with any that would be the general state (or Western NH) where I would need them.

Oh also I didn't know the marrow bones were ok raw! I was told that you HAD to cook them!! Thats cool because they are nasty when boiling. However, is it ok for them to be raw if DD handles them? She is always grabbing toys from the dog and then getting the dog to amble after her in a half arsed attempt to chase..DD thinks it is hilarious as doggie slowly follows her around the room..

Do not let your daughter do this with any dog.
 

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by lonegirl 

Do not let your daughter do this with any dog.
 

I don't need that kind of advice thanks, if you have something useful to add thank you, otherwise I will continue to monitor the way my daughter interacts with MY dog and decide my comfort level for each situation. 
I appreciate the advice about a topic you aren't really familiar with, my dog and my daughter. 

I have experience with dogs to know what I am and am not comfortable with.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by Virginia Mom 

Okay, your mom is like my mom.........I hate to say this, but just do a bold face lie and tell her that your DD is allergic to the dog...and the doctor said no way no how can she be around it........get an epi pen, or bring a big bottle of benedryl to make it 'look good'..........hey, sometimes grandmas are crazy.....

hehe I wish, except at home we have a dog, 2 cats and chickens. My mom knows DD isn't allergic to anything!

Maybe she could be selectively allergic

[greenmagick]

Originally Posted by lonegirl 

Do not let your daughter do this with any dog.
 

I hate to say it as it was worded rather tersely, but the above is very good information.  Teaching a child how to properly interact with the family dog (who may be way more tolerant that most others) is extremely important.  My dane is so tolerant of the kids, doesnt mind them bouncing all over her, taking things from her, etc.  However, I do not allow this.  Most dogs do NOT like this and I dont want my children being used to doing rude things to dogs.  I can explain that other dogs arent like this, or not to do this to other dogs, etc but if it becomes their default way of treating dogs, its going to be hard for them to get and there is a good possibility of them slipping up and getting hurt.  I would rather teach the correct way to interact with dogs at home so the few slip ups they have are with a safe dog than have them used to treating dogs like that and getting bit.

In dog language, taking something from another is very rude...and a bite is not an inappropriate response to that, in dog language.  There are definitely TONS of games your daughter can and should play with your dog....just not take aways and chase.  

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by greenmagick 

I hate to say it as it was worded rather tersely, but the above is very good information.  Teaching a child how to properly interact with the family dog (who may be way more tolerant that most others) is extremely important.  My dane is so tolerant of the kids, doesnt mind them bouncing all over her, taking things from her, etc.  However, I do not allow this.  Most dogs do NOT like this and I dont want my children being used to doing rude things to dogs.  I can explain that other dogs arent like this, or not to do this to other dogs, etc but if it becomes their default way of treating dogs, its going to be hard for them to get and there is a good possibility of them slipping up and getting hurt.  I would rather teach the correct way to interact with dogs at home so the few slip ups they have are with a safe dog than have them used to treating dogs like that and getting bit.

In dog language, taking something from another is very rude...and a bite is not an inappropriate response to that, in dog language.  There are definitely TONS of games your daughter can and should play with your dog....just not take aways and chase.  

the dog bringing a ball to my daughter, dropping it in her lap then standing there wagging her tail waiting would mean what exactly?? This is a game they play regularly and it is fine.

We have been very strict with DD from day 1, she is not so much as to even walk up to another dog without express permission from the owner or mommy and daddy. 

This is why I get frustrated when talking about pets, I DO teach my daughter how to interact appropriately with dogs, I allow that she is ok to do things with her own dog that she is NOT allowed to do with other dogs. I haven't run into her being confused yet, but maybe she is smarter than the average toddler about animals, I don't know. 

One of my biggest pet peeves is parents who do don't teach their children how to behave with dogs out and about in the world. I cannot stand it when kids aren't taught these very important manners and safety. DD knows and understands that strange dogs are NOT her Billie and do not get treated the way Billie gets treated. I also NEVER leave DD alone with a dog that isn't ours. 

I do teach the CORRECT way for her to interact with dogs, the presumption is pretty freaking annoying here and the holier than thou attitudes about dogs can go somewhere else, I'm not interested in hearing people talk as if they know how or what I teach my daughter about animals thanks.

Take away and chase is initiated by the DOG and I supervise it, if you people have a problem with it don't do it with your own dogs but mind your own business thanks. Like I said, DD is smart enough to understand she cannot behave the same with other dogs as she does her own.
 

ETA:

This is a thread about my mother's dog and issues with that, if you don't have advice regarding that topic why are you posting anyway? Just because you feel you know better than others? I'm not interested in that kind of attitude, I don't tell other mamas what to do with their own dogs and I expect that much respect from others, frustratingly enough on MDC it just isn't happening with this particular topic. You don't know my life, my DD's life or our dog's.

[MommaLura]

Personally, I think you should be honest with her about it and how you didn't want to hurt her feelings or upset her, but you can't risk the safety of your dd. I know its going too be hard and I'm sorry you're in this position. And how often does she expect you to visit? I know I can't afford to drive that far, nor would my sanity allow it every month You are a better person than me! I wouldn't be so nice.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by MommaLura 

Personally, I think you should be honest with her about it and how you didn't want to hurt her feelings or upset her, but you can't risk the safety of your dd. I know its going too be hard and I'm sorry you're in this position. And how often does she expect you to visit? I know I can't afford to drive that far, nor would my sanity allow it every month You are a better person than me! I wouldn't be so nice.

Ha once every month! I wish, during the winter I was driving up there EVERY OTHER WEEKEND...It was awful. I hate driving that distance and DD isn't a huge fan..

I haven't talked to my mom yet but I am going next weekend, I keep putting it off because I am dreading the conversation and haven't gotten the courage up to talk to her yet...

I was thinking of writing an email explaining that way I could lay it out without feeling like I have explain myself but then I figured why bother with an email, she will just call right away to talk about it and make me repeat myself word for word basically..Sigh, time to grow up and just do it..

[greenmagick]

If thats the case, fine.  But you mentioned that you werent sure about feeding raw bones because your daughter takes the toys and gets the dog to chase her. Your quote was "She is always grabbing toys from the dog"

That is a totally different picture than the dog bringing your daughter the ball, is it not?  No one is telling you what you HAVE to do....just responding to what you said with concern.  Not quite sure why you are so defensive.

And I did not say that children cant be taught treat their dog one way and all others a different way...I jsut think it CAN be confusing and if the child is very used to treating their dog a certain way there is a much higher chance of them forgetting as that is what they are used to.  And again, I never let my kids TAKE toys from any dog just because it is a rude behavior regardless of whether or not the dog allows it.  THe dog playing with the child and bringing the toys to them is a totally different situation.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by greenmagick 

If thats the case, fine.  But you mentioned that you werent sure about feeding raw bones because your daughter takes the toys and gets the dog to chase her. Your quote was "She is always grabbing toys from the dog"

That is a totally different picture than the dog bringing your daughter the ball, is it not?  No one is telling you what you HAVE to do....just responding to what you said with concern.  Not quite sure why you are so defensive.

And I did not say that children cant be taught treat their dog one way and all others a different way...I jsut think it CAN be confusing and if the child is very used to treating their dog a certain way there is a much higher chance of them forgetting as that is what they are used to.  And again, I never let my kids TAKE toys from any dog just because it is a rude behavior regardless of whether or not the dog allows it.  THe dog playing with the child and bringing the toys to them is a totally different situation.

Yes DD does grab toys and yes the dog brings her toys. 

I grab toys as well from my dog. I don't think it is rude. I expect my dog to have no reaction, and she doesn't react. Sometimes things NEED to be taken away from a dog and regardless of whether it is play or a more serious reason a dog in my house is NOT going to react to having that thing taken away, period. That is a part of training, or in our dog's case just the way she is. 

She is non reactive to the point of allowing our female cat to sit at the bowl at mealtime, and eat first and then while the dog is eating stick her paws in and shovel food out for herself. 

I am defensive because frankly I am sick of being told I am doing the wrong things with my dog. It is pretty damn presumptuous for people to make the assertions that what I am doing is "dangerous" or "wrong"...Unless you are with me, DD and the dog you quite frankly are talking out your arse. Perhaps you can't be comfortable with your own dog in that way, that is your business I don't proceed to tell you what I THINK you are doing wrong. Yet it is perfectly acceptable for people to make these statements the other way around. 

I am very experienced with many breeds of dogs, many dogs of many different tempers. Obviously I am VERY aware of safety considering this whole thread is devoted to safety issues with my mother's dog. I know what I am doing and if I felt the risk of DD behaving in the manner she does with our own dog was high enough to warrant a change in the situation I wouldn't hesitate to make that change. 

Despite trusting my dog with DD I am ever vigilant for the first sign that she is tiring of DD. DH and I were just talking about this yesterday, we both watch the dog closely with DD because at times it is just unbelievable how good she really is. We got her from a shelter at 9 months. The deciding factor in getting her was her lack of response when DD started screaming hysterically because she was tired. I knew she was a special girl I just had no idea she would turn out to be as fabulous as she is. I truly haven't ever had a dog like her, and this is with a lifetime of owning multiple (up to 4 large breed) dogs at a time.

I appreciate people are concerned but when I point out the above over and over again and still have to deal with the comments about safety etc...Yeah I get a little pissed.
 

[greenmagick]

Again, do what you want...its your dog and child.  If it is working for you, so be it.

I try and respond generally as many people read public forums.  In dog world, there is a law of possession.  If the dog currently has it, it is theirs.  Grabbing is most definitely considered rude.  It is not a behavior another polite dog would engage in unless in play and all the proper signals given first.  

Of course living with humans dogs need to learn drop it or leave it...and that is a cue that is extremely important.  So, yes, I CAN grab anything out of my dogs mouths...but I dont.  I request that they drop and they do.  If it was poison or something, sure, I would probably just grab, but that would be a very rare, and hopefully never, occurence. 

[Ldavis24]

edited for politeness.

Edited by Ldavis24 - 4/27/11 at 10:19am

[greenmagick]

I apologize for coming across that way....that was not at all my intention.  

Originally Posted by Ldavis24 

The overall superiority of your  posts is just so grating.."so be it"...Yes it is how things are in our house. You clearly are an "expert" if you have anything valid to offer about the original post by all means please share otherwise I don't see why (except to feel superior) you keep pointing out what I am doing wrong with my dog. Do something more productive with your time, we are all set over here at my house with the tips from the person who fancies themselves an online dog behaviorist. 

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by greenmagick 

I apologize for coming across that way....that was not at all my intention.  

I'm sorry for getting annoyed...Sigh I am getting annoyed a lot online...a sign I need to be spending more time off the computer.

This is a sensitive issue for me as you may have noticed! 

I appreciate that as someone just reading something online you can go, "oh that might not be the best idea.." I get that.

I feel like I having been having this debate a lot lately and it is getting to me. As a responsible owner I know and understand that dogs are far from humans (as much as people dress them up) and even the best dog can "snap", or even just have a bad grumpy day or be less friendly when older. My point is that I AM aware of all these things, hence I take a very proactive stance in monitoring my dog's behavior with DD, always looking for some sign that things have crossed over from mutual enjoyment to annoyance on the dog's part. 

Maybe this is just my love for my puppy but our dog is unique out of all those that I have owned in that she has a nature unlike my other dog's or even friend's dog's. She is a big strong alpha amongst other dogs, however even to my DD she is completely submissive. Without training, this is just how she is. She is not food aggressive at all. I mean ZERO. She will let everyone in the house eat out of her dish while she watches even if she is super hungry. She is NOT possessive over toys at all. She loves DD, she runs to her the minute she hears a cry, she gets there before I do half the time. She is protective of DD and does not like strangers approaching DD when she is around. 

She is unique to me in that she adjusts her behavior for DD. What I mean is that she can and does play rough with my DH (it drives me crazy). She runs around a lot and knocks stuff over. She jumps (terrible habit we are working) on most adults she comes across including DH and I...She does none of this with DD. She moves carefully, she rarely knocks her over unless she straight up doesn't see DD behind. She has NEVER come close to jumping on DD (although DD is short enough to not warrant much jumping). She is gentle with DD, with toys she grabs them slowly and gently, with DH and I she tends to be more rough with her mouth.

All of these behaviors were not trained into her by us. She just "is" this way. I feel very fortunate that we found such a wonderful member of our family.

I can appreciate that someone might say, "oh no! Don't let your DD do that or be alone with the dog etc..." It is just concern on that person's part. I am aware of all the risks and at this point (things can always change, I know and appreciate that very important fact) I am comfortable with how DD interacts with the dog and even with letting them be alone together...

Phew, ok sorry for the novel.

[lonegirl]

I am sorry....I didn't elaborate....I was on my way to work....as a vet tech

This can be a serious issue.  Honestly.  I have seen it.  A child should be taught to never take a dog's toys/food etc.  It is asking for trouble.  Even a beloved, trusted family dog can get annoyed with this.  I have seent it happen...i have seen pets put down because for "some reason" they turned on the child in the family...and with probing we discover that oh the child "always" plays keep away and chase, and loves to take his toy and never before has the dog cared...there comes a point where the dog may care and get annoyed.  I know I get get annoyed when someone keeps taking my stuff...I may not say something at first but if it happens enough time I may snap. 

I am familiar with this topic....I think 16 years in the field has given me some insight to dogs in general....sure not your dog in specific....but dogs in general.
 

Originally Posted by Ldavis24 

I don't need that kind of advice thanks, if you have something useful to add thank you, otherwise I will continue to monitor the way my daughter interacts with MY dog and decide my comfort level for each situation. 
I appreciate the advice about a topic you aren't really familiar with, my dog and my daughter. 

I have experience with dogs to know what I am and am not comfortable with.