Technically a "catch"...?

[EchoSoul]

So the past 24 hours have been a huge transition. I'm trying to transition our 2 week old to cloth diapers, and with that, comes the sudden realization on his part that he can suddenly feel when he eliminates. That said, I noticed a pattern. When he's breast feeding wearing a disposable, he ALWAYS eliminates during the first half of the feeding (15-20 minutes), so I change his diaper and continue feeding him. Though lately, he started peeing as soon as, or within the first minute his diaper was off of him, and sometimes even eliminating again as I was cleaning him up. So I figured, "Great! A pattern! I can use this!" And I did, :-D The thing is, I can't get anything out of him holding him in any EC-hold, he likes laying on the changing mat, which is a towel.

The difference is, when he's in a cloth diaper, he'll eliminate randomly throughout the entire feeding session, part 1 and part 2, and constantly pop off my breast because he does NOT like eating in a soiled diaper. And I tried feeding him diaper-less again, because that didn't require me to feed him, change him, feed him, change him, feed him, change him..which stresses him out every time, because the little man has diaper rash(the aloe vera I've been using has REALLY taken down the rash and his discomfort. He went from screaming bloody murder to whimpering.

I had previously tried feeding him with his diaper off about a week ago, and it worked well. He held off for as long as he could, and when he popped off, I rushed him into the bathroom - but all that bouncing around made him eliminate - DOWN my clothes. Ick.

SOOOOO..... just within the past half-hour, I decided to try again. Only I came up with a new method. I put the towel underneath him as I fed him, and waited. He ate, and ate...and finally, around the same time span as when he's breast feeding in a disposable, he eliminated. Bit of poo, and emptied his bladder. So I put his diaper back on(figured he's empty!), and continued feeding him until he was done, and the diaper remained perfectly dry.

Sooo..that's technically a catch, isn't it? :D

Edited by EchoSoul - 4/17/11 at 12:56pm

[Tjej]

I would think so.  Have you considered using a little bowl or potty?  That might help.  And a cueing sound?  I don't know if you are looking for advice or just props for catching one. :)  It's fun to realize how much they really do know about what is going on, isn't it?

Tjej

[EchoSoul]

I guess I'm just looking for affirmation that it IS technically a catch, even though it wasn't in the receptacle I intended. I figure I'll try for actual receptacles like a little potty, or the tub, or the sink, or a bowl, etc etc..when he can hold his head up. For right now, if he's comfortable doing it laying down, and the towel is easily washable, I'm cool with it. It keeps him much cleaner than sitting in his messes, and makes me feel better.

Right now I'm taking it slow. Only trying EC during feedings. Although a little while ago it worked out beyond that. About half an hour after he was done nursing, and I put him down, he started crying. I thought he couldn't possibly be hungry.. so I held him, and he quieted down...started grunting and fussing, quieted, then eliminated in his diaper. If it keeps up that way, I know to try ECing about half an hour after he's done nursing, too. Now that I've initiated I'm listening, he's talking. :)

[nstewart]

Sounds like a catch to me!  It takes a while to get in a groove.  DS used to suddenly pull off halfway through nursing and then pee.  Once I figured that out I'd open his diaper and cue him when he went.  Make sure to cue him when he is going so he learns to associate the cue with the action.

If the towel is working for you, that's great.  Another option is prefold diapers.  They're inexpensive and handy to have around if you EC.  When you're ready to do EC more of the time, it's a great system.  Just put DS in a prefold with no cover, done up with a Snappi and it's easy to get him out of to offer a pottytunity and also super easy to tell if he's gone so that you can change him straight away.

Keep up the good work mamma!

[EchoSoul]

Originally Posted by nstewart 

Sounds like a catch to me!  It takes a while to get in a groove.  DS used to suddenly pull off halfway through nursing and then pee.  Once I figured that out I'd open his diaper and cue him when he went.  Make sure to cue him when he is going so he learns to associate the cue with the action.

If the towel is working for you, that's great.  Another option is prefold diapers.  They're inexpensive and handy to have around if you EC.  When you're ready to do EC more of the time, it's a great system.  Just put DS in a prefold with no cover, done up with a Snappi and it's easy to get him out of to offer a pottytunity and also super easy to tell if he's gone so that you can change him straight away.

Keep up the good work mamma!

I can try a prefold, :) I've been using a towel until I get down how far out his pee stream stretches, lol. So far the only "cues" I've done are the words that unconsciously slip out of my mouth when I see what he's doing. "Thata Boy!" When he has a bowel movement, and "Good job, Gavin!" when he pees. ..Do you think that works just as well?

[Tjej]

If you use a cueing sound then a baby can often make it too - well, an older baby.  It will be quite a while before your son will be able to say phrases.

Tjej

[EchoSoul]

Ahh...good point. I'll work on better cues, then, :)

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by EchoSoul 

So far the only "cues" I've done are the words that unconsciously slip out of my mouth when I see what he's doing. "Thata Boy!" When he has a bowel movement, and "Good job, Gavin!" when he pees. ..Do you think that works just as well?

I agree with the pp, a sound allows him to tell you when he needs to eliminate much sooner than he's able to speak words.  Plus, philosophically, consider the process of EC as not an action followed by praise/reward system, but instead just him communicating a basic function followed by you helping him.  As he gets older you want to be sure he's just doing it because that's what feels good to him, not because mommy gets excited and praises.  Of course you're going to be excited sometimes b/c it's awesome when they "get it" and that's natural.  Smiles and a positive fun attitude, like "you peed in the potty!" I think are helpful.  But part of the reason I know I EC and potty trained my older one early (20 months) is to avoid the whole reward for using the potty issue.  I know a few too many kids still struggling with the potty at 3 and 4 who were trained using stickers and M&M's.  I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but just that it's something to think about as you embark on your EC and parenting journey. 

[heatherr30]

I think it's irrelevant whether it's a catch or not---you're learning his patterns and this helped confirm them to you.  :)  Sometimes the most useful opportunities to me, are the ones I miss...

But yeah, for the record, I think you can call this a catch.  When I nurse diaper-less, I make sure to have DS's basin right next to my feet to avoid trailing poo through the house as I run for the toilet!

[EchoSoul]

Indeed. What's even better than that, though - because his pattern will change, I'm sure, as he gets older and he can hold it longer and longer - is that I'm getting the instinctual feelings of when he will eliminate, and when he will not. Twice now when I've been breast feeding him and he pops off, I burp him and put him to my breast again because I know he won't eliminate until after the next time he pops off. So I wait until the second time he does it, put him on the changing table, take off his diaper, and sure enough..:)

He finally has a cue for a bowel movement now; "whoah!" it occurred the first time he had a blow-out on the changing table, and it sprayed across the changing table and down across the floor. ..."Whoah" has been the only word I can think of, and it's the first word that pops out of my mouth because sometimes, what's coming out of there, or what's about to come out of there leaves me with the inability to say or think anything other than that! It's like a time-bomb. I'm not sure how far to back away...LOL. We've both been doing excellent with it, though. :) I catch a lot of pees, but not quite as many bowel movements. Those seem to range anywhere from half an hour after he's finished eating, to an hour after he's finished eating, but he never makes any noises to tell me; he only makes noises to alert me that he's wet. And by then he's already wet the prefold, or wetted it and had a BM.

I stopped nursing diaper-less and started depending on instinct because I couldn't tell by his face when he had to pee. I'd watch his face... and it wouldn't change, but suddenly the pad he was on would get wet. The only way I've had success is to, as bad as it sounds, watch his penis when he's diaper-less on the changing table, because I know when it starts ballooning out to get an appropriate receptacle to catch the portion that far extends beyond the changing table(lol) - otherwise I can't tell by his face. The bowel movements are a bit easier to tell when he's on the changing table, he'll be screaming because it's a diaper change, suddenly get all quiet and still, stare at me, and I'll hear that familiar "rumble".

But yeah, I know, whenever he starts fussing after a diaper change, and I've been distracted doing something else so I don't look out for it ahead of time, and go to change him, that he's slowly getting the idea, "Hey, when I make noises, mom comes and I get dry again!"

[Tjej]

What worked well for my son was to offer the potty for pooping.  So now that you have a cue word, you could take him to the potty (I used the sink when he was a newborn) and say whoah, and see if he grunts one out (at a time when you expect he'll need to go soon). 

Tjej

[heatherr30]

My DS didn't signal at all for pees at that age.  As I kept up EC he gradually started fussing sometimes during the pee sometimes before the pee in time for me to get him over the potty.

Now at 3 months I sometimes notice him squirming and fussing.  Some days it is like we are on the same wavelength and I make several catches in a row.  Other days I don't have a clue and we go thru like 12 diapers.  But it's still worth doing.  His bladder is bigger now and sometimes when I go to change him the diaper is still dry and I catch a pee that way. 

[EchoSoul]

Right.. He doesn't signal at all when his diaper is off, the only way I can tell is when his penis starts ballooning and then I know any second now. But when he's got his diaper on, and it's wet, he'll fuss and fuss.. He never fusses prior to peeing. It's always, "Ew. I'm wet. MOM!!!!!" On the other hand, when he's nursing, I started noticing, that sometimes when he's about to have a bowel movement, he'll start groaning and mumbling and pulling side to side on my breast but still maintain his hold(which...to note, doesn't really feel all that good). And when he's about to have a bowel movement with his diaper off, sometimes he'll quiet down and go still. But both are only sometimes. I've had much more luck with catching pees, the bowel movements are seriously a hit and miss based on timing and how fast he nurses. Sometimes he nurses so voraciously he chokes on it, or nurses so quickly it's like as soon as he swallows, he has a bowel movement. And I can't do any kind of catching at that point. I'm still working on trying to slow him down before I get concerned with catching his affiliated bowel movements. The pees I know occur sometimes within half an hour after he's finished eating, and can occur after he pops off my breast, and happen again like half an hour before he's hungry again. Bowel movements occur instantly if he starts nursing very fast, but beyond that occur during the pause between nursing, and occur again like 45 minutes to an hour after he's finished.

All in due time.. I intend on trying to use a receptacle soon, Tjej, I'm just taking it slowly, :) I'm trying to get him used to the sensory parts of cueing him; like having his knees pushed back, and having to direct his penis to direct his aim. Right now that's easiest with him just laying down. :) It took like a week of nursing for me to stop nursing him diaper less and instead rely on timing and instinct and take his diaper off on the changing table and just....wait, at least for a few minutes. Perhaps in another week or two I'll actually try taking him to the bathroom. :)

Oh, and on the note of it still being worth trying... it totally is! I couldn't imagine NOT doing it now. During his first week I hesitated, thought maybe there was no point. But when I started doing it, and doing it more consistently, I love having that sudden instinctual feeling that, "Okay, he needs to go to the changing table and needs his diaper off NOW." But if I miss it, I don't sweat it. He's still learning no matter what.

Edited by EchoSoul - 4/25/11 at 1:32pm

[heatherr30]

Youre doing great!  It gets easier with time and they start holding pee and poo till the end of the nursing session more often.  I think it's most important to work out any feeding issues first.  I am also not the type of person to bf with a potty in my lap (no offense to those who do, I am just not that co-ordinated!) so if DS pees while nursing I just change him afterwards, no sweat.  (The poos I can usually figure out and take him potty in the middle of a feed...)

[EchoSoul]

Good news is, our son is now completely okay with having his legs pushed back for a bowel movement. Bad news is... I didn't realize the pressure it puts on him in the right areas, and to what velocity that makes him eliminate. .... Now I have to clean the carpet.

I tried several different things for him to be diaper-free during nursing. I tried a towel, but he leaked right through that, then I tried some prefolds in a small pan, but that was too awkward and we didn't have much body contact. So taking him to the changing table between parts of the feeding is the only way to do it. Again, at least until he can support his own head, or at the very least when it's not so wobbly.

[Tjej]

I'd take him to potty before feeding.  Cue him and he can clean out and then nurse and potty again after.  I think that is what I did with my DS - I don't exactly remember... it's been a few years... (I never did the potty in hand while nursing either).

Tjej

[nstewart]

My DS also used to go part way through a nursing session.  I would potty him first, then nurse.  Once we got in that routine he would make it through the session w/o going.  But what I would do when he was still peeing during a nursing session is just use a prefold, laid loosely on/under him and when he paused and I knew he was going to pee, I'd just cue when he went.  I never could do the potty bowl thing either.  I tried but it was always just awkward for me.

[heatherr30]

I tried several different things for him to be diaper-free during nursing. I tried a towel, but he leaked right through that, then I tried some prefolds in a small pan, but that was too awkward and we didn't have much body contact. 

Put a small waterproof pad under the prefold!  You could use anything, even a fleece baby blanket.

[EchoSoul]

Ah, yes! And I do have one of those. Thanks!

[Becky Cruz]

What an inspirational post!!!  You're awesome!  My baby used to go the same way when he was a newborn and I just thought it would be impossible to try EC back then,

so I started at 4 months, when he stopped pooping at night or during breastfeeding.  Great job!!!