"mixed kids are cuter" ?! - Page 2

[bk_hope_2_b_mama]

Originally Posted by kama'aina mama 

Oh my God.

and, thank you... i know.

[babygirlie]

Due to television, I thought we were suppose to like white people with nice tans hence the mixed is prettiest. Frankly I'm sick of people saying I'm too pale to be pretty and I should go get cancer to look better. And it has made me very self conscious. My husband was so ashamed of being pale he went through this ridiculous stage of using every self tanner known to man. It made me so sad for him. I'm also made sick when my black friend says black is dirty and ugly.. I want to look like you. It's just all around too sad. I do think it's insulting because it's saying as a white mom you're ugly and as a black dad he's the other spectrum of ugly but hey.. at least your kids will be cute because they'll have white features on a tan body. I mean.. of course your kids are going to be cute but so are their parents! And it shouldn't matter if they are pale with a flat nose or dark with a slim nose... but just because they are them. :/

Hope I conveyed myself in the way that was not taken poorly by the community. I also lived in a country where the color of your skin was graded (like on your id card) and how important you were in society and what jobs you could hold (literally). Pretty demeaning and plain old stupid.

[mambera]

But it seems that it is *not* the case that most people feel only blonde babies are beautiful.  Posters here are getting comments on their beautiful babies of all colors.  Where then is the evidence that the comments for your (read: anyone's) baby are racially based?  They of course focus on the personal aesthetic qualities that he has (blonde hair and blue eyes), but the same person might comment just as appreciatively on another baby's quite different personal aesthetic qualities (eg dark hair and dark eyes).

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by mambera 

So racism will have been extinguished the day that expressing a personal aesthetic preference for one skin tone or hair type over another, is no more 'loaded' than expressing a personal aesthetic preference for dark hair over blonde, or green eyes over blue.  When race can talked about freely and openly and with no more hurt feelings or implied criticisms than any other obvious physical characteristic, that is when racism is gone.  NOT when people are afraid to mention the topic of race for fear of offending someone.

Insisting that 'loading' exists in comments where it was not intended, only prolongs the agony.  I really think that this kind of approach perpetuates racism rather than the opposite.

Racism is not perpetuated by speaking as though it exists, is common, or as though historically or modernly a preference for racialized features is not an equivalent to a preference for "green eyes over blue."

Where racism or the effects of racism appear is also not always intended, but that doesn't make its appearance less valid or worth commenting upon. Projecting racial neutrality onto a culture that is not racially neutral in the hopes that the projection will render race itself neutral is ... risky. At best.

[bk_hope_2_b_mama]

Originally Posted by mambera 

But it seems that it is *not* the case that most people feel only blonde babies are beautiful.  Posters here are getting comments on their beautiful babies of all colors.  Where then is the evidence that the comments for your (read: anyone's) baby are racially based?  They of course focus on the personal aesthetic qualities that he has (blonde hair and blue eyes), but the same person might comment just as appreciatively on another baby's quite different personal aesthetic qualities (eg dark hair and dark eyes).

This misses the point entirely. We are talking about a dominate culture commenting on the "other" - either by exoticisizing the "not too other" features that work for our beauty standard (but aren't TOO different or TOO black or TOO Asian, etc, etc, etc) or talking about the beauty standard that's more associated with our culture to begin with. Are you seriously suggesting that the comment, "mixed babies are the cutest!" is not racially based? Is anyone in this discussion even coming from a non-white perspective? I understand that I'm coming from a privileged perspective when I talk about this topic; does anyone else?

[purplegirl]

I couldn't agree more with the OP.  I am a black woman with many multiracial family members.  I hear those sorts of comments all the time and cringe at the message it sends children who are not obviously mixed.  Black people continue to struggle with images of beauty that has a long history of being defined by-- the closer you are to white, the prettier you are.  My biracial family members are made to feel 'special' because of their 'exotic' features while the black children feel less than pretty because they aren't obviously mixed and people overlook their cuteness.   Both groups end up feeling badly and confused.

I have more to say but am short on time. Back later.............

[GalateaDunkel]

Originally Posted by RoamingWidgeteer 
 And its not racist to point this out if there are no disparaging comments about either/both/mixing races.

It's inappropriate to put people on the spot about their ethnic background, even if the comment is supposedly positive. It indicates that you are viewing them through the frame of race rather than as an individual. Even if you mean it well, consider how many other people are making such well-meaning comments as well; it adds up to the person feeling like other people want to talk about their ethnicity ALL THE TIME, which can feel like a racist situation even if the people making the comments aren't individually being racist or negative.

[cappuccinosmom]

I would just like to point out that the opposite of "cuter" is *not* "hideously ugly".  Having a personal, individual opinion that a certain person or group of people is particularly attractive to yourself does not mean you consider everyone else ugly.  Saying that it does heightens the emotion, I know, but I don't think it's fair.  I think my kids are cuter than I was, but that doesn't mean I think I was a dreadful looking baby.  I was pretty cute too.

[minnowmomma]

Originally Posted by bk_hope_2_b_mama 

I have to say, I'm disappointed to have inspired some of you to further exoticize mixed babies with comments about visually striking features, big poofy hair, lovely skin tone, etc. What does this imply about my daughter's cousins, aunts, uncles, and family who are all dark skinned folks with thick, kinky hair? I don't want to assume that none of you responders are black women, but it might be worth imagining this from a non-dominant cultural perspective.

This is where I make my exit...

As an african american i understand what you are saying and what the people making those comments are unconsciously thinking.Which is basically that a child that is soley african american can't be beautiful because they are too dark or have course hair.What they fail to understand is that we come in all colors and hair textures and there is beauty to be found in all of them.Beauty is in the eye of the beholder,and love can make those with the most asthetically unpleasing feature beautiful.Perhaps the next time someone says something like that to you, you should gently remind them that there is beauty in all races whether they blend or not. It might actually put something on their mind that is not as superficial as a person's looks. 
 

Edited by minnowmomma - 4/21/11 at 7:31pm

[eclipse]

I think any blanket statements about race/ethnicity are problematic. It's that "always" part that really bugs me. I mean, really? "All" "mixed" kids are cuter/prettier than any other kids? What? Postitve stereotypes aren't necessarily much better than negative ones, you know? Like saying all Asians are great at math - great at math isn't a bad thing, but the generalization is. It's not treating those multi-ethnic kids as individuals, as people.

Now, as to my person experiences - I'm white, my husband is white, my kids are white. But we live in Mexico, and it's really strange. We get comments about our kids' looks every time we walk out of the house - and it's always about their white skin and blue eyes - always very complimentary, but it makes me very uncomfortable - probably because there are huge class issues here between white Mexicans and Mexicans who look like they have more indigenous heritage. I worry about the message that's being sent to my children. I will say, though, that the whole "white privilege" concept is a lot more striking to me since I moved here.

[lookatreestar]

yes. same here, when we are in the states everyone goes on and on about the kids tan(brown) skin, and when we are in MX its all about the omg blond/light hair and blue eyes. 

[kama'aina mama]

Exactly.  Even "positive" stereotypes are racist.  "They are all good at...  math, sports, can dance... whatever... " may sound like a compliment but it isn't.  It starts with classifying the person as "other than" the mainstream and it continues by basically robbing them of specific talents they possess and the hard work they put into turning that talent into a high degree of skill.  It can be hard to internalize the idea that something that sounds like a compliment is actually not, and is, in fact, a damaging racial stereotype. 

OP, thank you for starting this thread.  I think this is a valuable discussion and I hope you will consider returning to it. 

[indie]

I think babygirlie is on to something. I do think in general people like "mixed children" because they have white features and tan skin which is what is held up as the ideal in our culture. I am white but have olive skin and have always been told that I look exotic. People used to ask me where I was from all the time and were quite disappointed when I named a place in the U.S. And, yes, they often commented that I was especially beautiful due to this mix of features.

I do hear what the OP is saying. But just to be entirely honest, I'll admit that I too think that bi-racial children are generally better looking. To be 100% honest I'm a little disappointed at times that I chose to procreate with a very, very white guy. I'm sure that's some kind of crazy cultural bias or maybe outright racism. But I don't think we'll get anywhere in this conversation if we can't be honest about how we feel without people freaking out and getting defensive.

[kama'aina mama]

I'm not even sure if everyone in this conversation realizes that "better looking" is an ever shifting rubric, always heavily laden with cultural bias. 

[MamaMunchkin]

Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel 

It's inappropriate to put people on the spot about their ethnic background, even if the comment is supposedly positive. It indicates that you are viewing them through the frame of race rather than as an individual. Even if you mean it well, consider how many other people are making such well-meaning comments as well; it adds up to the person feeling like other people want to talk about their ethnicity ALL THE TIME, which can feel like a racist situation even if the people making the comments aren't individually being racist or negative.

I can see this - it might make one feel as if people can't see them beyond their race/ethnicity ... It's truly unfortunate ...

Edited by MamaMunchkin - 4/21/11 at 7:44am

[Tigerchild]

I am white-asian with "almond shaped" eyes and auburn hair.  I hated being exotified as a kid (and yes, people did that a lot).  I hated it as a teen/young woman too, unbelievable how empowered people feel to comment about how all asian women are so sexy, and they think you have the "best of both" (pretty eyes, but with the auburn hair).  I don't think that very many people are aware that the "mixed babies are cuter" has been used in several times/places to try to exterminate an indigenous population or "improve their appearance" by "crossbreeding" with white people so that the resulting kids are prettier (or smarter, or whatever gross goal it was).  So there is a whole other social layer to that that many people may not be aware that exists.

But neveryoumind, what's more important is that someone is offering a compliment.  How dare someone get offended, their feelings don't matter at all.

[MamaMunchkin]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild 

I am white-asian with "almond shaped" eyes and auburn hair.  I hated being exotified as a kid (and yes, people did that a lot).  I hated it as a teen/young woman too, unbelievable how empowered people feel to comment about how all asian women are so sexy, and they think you have the "best of both" (pretty eyes, but with the auburn hair).  I don't think that very many people are aware that the "mixed babies are cuter" has been used in several times/places to try to exterminate an indigenous population or "improve their appearance" by "crossbreeding" with white people so that the resulting kids are prettier (or smarter, or whatever gross goal it was).  So there is a whole other social layer to that that many people may not be aware that exists.

But neveryoumind, what's more important is that someone is offering a compliment.  How dare someone get offended, their feelings don't matter at all.

If you don't mind me asking - how did your parents react?   My kids are visibly mixed - so far not an issue yet but would like to know how to deal with this if it comes up ...  

[Marsupialmom]

I am doing a paper for college.  One thing I found interesting is that lighter skin was the desired long before the European dominance in the early late Middle Ages - Renaissance.  Lighter skin tone equaled wealth, people that didn't have to work as hard.  Post Columbus traveling to North America caused a noticable shift in peoples thinking and the development of "race".  Our North American history also brings into other issues, however I know longer think it is as simple when there is a preference of color or lighter skin as racism.  It has been going on LONG before Europeans dominated the world within all groups, the lightest was prefer because of perceived wealth and wealth equate with beauty.    

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color#Cultural_aspects_of_skin_color (Im not using wiki for my paper, but it sumerizes and make some food for thought).   

http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/1638  when Irish women were being breed with African men they were not concidered "white" Jewish also had to become white,http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0SOR/is_1_61/ai_61908763/  How ever it wasn't just the fact that they wanted lighter skin "mulattoes" because they were prettier but they could be sold at higher prices than cheap Irish slaves. A few male African slaves (which cost more) could be breed with cheep Irish slaves so they could fetch higher prices on the offspring because they were darker. The mixing of race was more complicated that just the slave owner raping his black female slaves and selling off the lighter skin.  That happen often, but the Irish women also happen.  

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100057939  - natural changing of skin color though history

There is also a gender quirk... women are more likely to be attracted to darker skin men and darker skin men prefer lighter  -- "Fair Women, Dark Men" The forgotten roots of color prejudice" by Peter Frost. (However I am not 100% by this aurther it was food for thought).  

It makes me wonder what is part "hardwired" and part social constructs that use to mean survival, or at least an easier life.    

I also have to pounder facts that extremes in colors are the "oddity" and seen as exotic.  Being alabaster if often received as ill health or exotic (albinos are often ostracized).  Were dark skin like Alek Wek is also exoticized.  I wonder when people say "mix" kids are the cutest if it is not solely on racist notions but the fascination of different.  It is just another form of the "extreme".   I do think racism is a part, however I no longer believe it is as simple as racism.  

[RoamingWidgeteer]

Originally Posted by indie 

I do think in general people like "mixed children" because they have white features and tan skin which is what is held up as the ideal in our culture. I am white but have olive skin and have always been told that I look exotic.

There is a far more fundamental biological reason - humans like symmetrical faces, even babies have a preference for them. Why? Because symmetry is related to genetic health (esp. strength of immune system) and we respond to that, generally without being aware of it. So kids with a mixed background are going to look cuter to us because of that, but skin colour and hair are far easier to be aware off so that's what is commented on.

On the other hand is how a particular society responds to perceived outsiders, and how the affected people feel about being seen as different. And that's where it gets really complicated, and very subjective.

[JTA Mom]

I understand your sentiment. OP.

However, I think that in certain parts of the US, 'exotic' is prized. Even models, nowadays, are more prized if they are 'exotic' aka not conforming to any one ethnic feature profile. Shoot, just the physical profiles of male and female models is exotic. Not many women or men look like them.

I can see where it is seen as having racial connotations. And I think, for a part, it is true. I'm Greek but am frequently seen as being a 'white' Mexican. I definitely get preferential treatment when going to hispanic places of business (which, in San Jose, is largely Mexican). Then again, I also seem to get more male attention from Hispanic males rather than white males. Always have. I guess, from a racial perspective, I am white enough for a Central & Southern American man, but not white enough for a Northern & Western European man?

However, I think that since our culture seems to currently value that which few of its members are able to achieve, saying 'mixed' babies are cuter than 'non-mixed' babies falls under this realm more and more. Having a classic blond, blue eyed Aryan look is still prized, yes. But now, not looking like regular (__fill in the blank__) is also prized. And it's not just those who look more white, either. And what is white, btw? To me, as a southern European, I so do not and never will fit the blond blah blah blah stereotype.  Anyways, I have found that this extends into 'non-white' mixes (this terminology is awful, are there any better words for this?) as well. Anything outside of normal is coveted.

My dh is half Irish and half Mexican. To 'whites' he reads as Mexican/Latino. From other ethnicities, he has been seen as: Persian, Greek, Turkish, Arabic, Mexican, Indian, Pakistani, Fillipino, Jordanian, etc. Phew. lol

Thanks to my light skin, green eyes but dark curly hair, my broad nose and thicker lips, I've been confused as: Italian, Persian, Turkish, Mexican, Spanish--really, anywhere that was colonized and could bring about my features.

My sons, facially, are quite similar. However my oldest has a light complexion (peaches and cream, I believe it's called), curly light brown hair, and big brown eyes. People comment all the time on how lucky he would have been if he'd been a girl. People still mistake him as female all.the.time. My youngest son has a medium complexion, dark eyes and dark straight hair. Still confused as female. I guess people think baby boys are supposed to look ugly or something?

Anyways, because my husband and I seem to blend into many different ethnicities, so do my sons. It's interesting.

It might also be a backlash from the very recent past where 'mixing races' was illegal.

Ami