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"mixed kids are cuter" ?! - Page 5

post #81 of 158
Quote:
the thing is saying "oh mixed kids are so cute" -- is basically racist.  not just because the person might be feeling that they look good because they are less black or less asian etc.  But because it creates an entire subset of people who often have no distinguishing features in common and turns them into a physically defined group for no real reason, other than some imaginary in that persons head. 

 

Well if its just that then there would not be a problem in the world right. Nobody would be bothered or offended so much if it was just the fact of that thinking. By definition racism is defined as

 

"The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

                                                                                                                                           or

"Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief".

 

Just because you think that wow this guy is asian and that guy is african american does not make you a racist. It makes you a racist if you discriminate people based on the fact that they are of a particular race, that can either lead to favoritism or hatred. That is when your behavior towards the other person changes because of the race he belongs to. And people hate it because there was time when people of different races were treated badly. So if you choose a person who comes for a job interview just because you like his race, or reject another person because you don't like his race is what accounts as racism and that person showing that behavior is called a racist.

 

Now when I say, she is Chinese, so she has beautiful skin, or he is of african american so he has a good muscle build, does not make me a racist. And I think the same stays true for what I said before.

 

Its not so much the comment, but its the intent and the actions that matter.

 

As I a said before, I have been on the other side and have experienced racism. Please do not call this racism. It isn't even close. The hatred people show you when they show racism cuts your heart like a whiplash. And it ain't this. Just a stare is filled with so much negative energy that you can actually feel it.

post #82 of 158

I think that a lot of people who say that also mean that your children will be special, but not is a racist or negative way. We have kids with the fine blond hair blue eyes look, and we also get a lot of comments on how cute they look. Where we are from in Europe almost noone comments on how they look, since a lot of kids have blond hair overthere. However, my relatives when they are visiting the US, comment on beautiful brown-eyed dark-haired kids they see here.

 

Carma

 

post #83 of 158


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmering View Post

 

Well if its just that then there would not be a problem in the world right. Nobody would be bothered or offended so much if it was just the fact of that thinking. By definition racism is defined as

 

"The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

                                                                                                                                           or

"Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief".

 

Just because you think that wow this guy is asian and that guy is african american does not make you a racist. It makes you a racist if you discriminate people based on the fact that they are of a particular race, that can either lead to favoritism or hatred. That is when your behavior towards the other person changes because of the race he belongs to. And people hate it because there was time when people of different races were treated badly. So if you choose a person who comes for a job interview just because you like his race, or reject another person because you don't like his race is what accounts as racism and that person showing that behavior is called a racist.

 

Now when I say, she is Chinese, so she has beautiful skin, or he is of african american so he has a good muscle build, does not make me a racist. And I think the same stays true for what I said before.

 

Its not so much the comment, but its the intent and the actions that matter.

 

As I a said before, I have been on the other side and have experienced racism. Please do not call this racism. It isn't even close. The hatred people show you when they show racism cuts your heart like a whiplash. And it ain't this. Just a stare is filled with so much negative energy that you can actually feel it.


I don't agree that engaging in positive stereotypes is not racist.  In some ways positive stereotypes are just as harmful as negative ones, because they erase the effort of the individual. 

 

post #84 of 158

We got some comments like that, but less than yours it seems because DH is not African, he's Palauan (like Samoan). I would not be offended either- I mean, they all seem like positive comments to me, albeit worded a little funny. 

post #85 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama View Post


 


I don't agree that engaging in positive stereotypes is not racist.  In some ways positive stereotypes are just as harmful as negative ones, because they erase the effort of the individual. 

 



So would it be racist to only be attracted to one race and not another?  Lilke my mom, after her divorce, has only dated Asian men.  She says she likes their features.  My DH is attracted to brunettes, not blonds - does that make him racist towards ethnicities that usually have blond hair?  I guess I'm not sure we can call complementing someone on a feature of theirs, that may be typical of a certain race, as racist. 

 

post #86 of 158

Everyone is entitled to have personal preferences, and what you find attractive isn't really up for a vote, right?  But depending on what those attractions are, they could be based in racism, and that's worth thinking about, in my opinion. 

 

Aside from that, what I am talking about is so-called positive stereotypes, like that Asians are smart or good at math, that blacks are athletic, or good dancers or natural singers... These comments may seem complimentary, but the end result is that they negate the effort made by the individual members of those ethnic groups to excel in those areas.  Does that make sense? 

post #87 of 158

I understand what you mean, but what I want to say is that it does not count as racism. Racism is something completely different than what you say. But yes what you say makes sense, that their effort put into it may not be taken into account. But that does not apply to every instance, and it is definitely not racism.

So does when people comment you on your looks. For example brown skin is genetic, and it has no effort of the person involved and so is shiny skin, and blue eyes. Some races have particular genes which might give them certain advantages. And that is a fact.

But at the same time I wouldn't say all african americans will be atheletic, or all african americans who are atheletic are so because of their genes and not because of their effort.

 

Basically what I mean to say is that, commenting on others looks and features does not simply make you racist or it does not count as racism. There might be negative effects of what you say, but it does not count as racism.

post #88 of 158

I find it so interesting that people of African descent would assume I mean that mixed babies are prettier than all African babies. I have never said mixed babies are cuter but I have often thought it. But every time I thought about it I was meaning that mixed babies are more attractive than ALL WHITE (my race) babies. I never considered that someone could think I meant the other. I tend to prefer mixed or purely ethnic children. There are some very attractive all white kids (mine being one) but I just prefer darker skin and features so a mixed person, to me, is usually more attractive than a white person. That said, I also find all (insert dark race here) people more attractive than white people, too, and mixed people more attractive than both.

 

Some men prefer Asian women, some women really like Italian guys. shrug.gif Doesn't mean they hate all other races. I don't think it's wrong to have a preference.

post #89 of 158

so much to comment on.

First of all Shimmering absolutely I agree --noting race is not racist-- agreed!! obviously we notice race, by pretending we don't see it is silly and frankly harmful. There was a study not long ago that noted how little white children are taught to think there is something wrong with other races because their parents will often try not to use racial identifiers.  An example at a predominantly white playground a white parent sees their child playing with the only black child in the playground and decides to invite him and his mother over for a play date.  The white parent then turns to their child and says "do you want to invite the boy you were playing with over next week?"  the white child having played with several boys says "which boy? "  and the parent answers something like "  the boy with the blue Tshirt." instead of "the black boy." even though there may be several children with blue Tshirts and in diverse societies race is one of the first things we notice about people.  These ways of ignoring race, while well intentioned,  teach white children to think there is something wrong with admitting they see race, and that race must be somehow bad.... and lead to the annoying "I'm color blind" Or "I don't care if you are black white or polka dotted" comments later on.  SO YES noting race is fine, acceptable, I would go so far as to say positive and healthy.

 

BUT grouping qualities by race is essentialising and racist--

deciding that "mixed babies are cute" whether its because you think that they are cuter than all black, all asian, all latino or all white babies smacks of exoticism and racism.  (Oh and Shimmering--As a child I also suffered the really awful racism-- the kind that includes physical violence -- just that because this comes from a better place and isn't as damaging doesn't make it not racist.  It just makes it less damaging and less hurtful. ) 

 

Quote:

Well if its just that then there would not be a problem in the world right. Nobody would be bothered or offended so much if it was just the fact of that thinking.

I, for one, am bothered when I am turned into a stand in for my entire racial group and when people assume I have positive or negative qualities because of my ethnicity. 
Yes there are some biological tendencies that often go along with phenotype and color (I don't pretend to say it's all nurture by any means) but not all koreans are inherently good at math, nor are all kenyans great runners.  Nor are all Thai women drop dead gorgeous. 

Besides a half ethiopian half german baby has little in common with a half vietnamese half white American who has little in common with a half dominican half armenian baby BUT they are all mixed.  Are they all "so cute" because they're mixed?  And if so, what does that really mean?  And half white american half black american babies-- to take just one common mixed race in the US--can look very different from each other.  But these comments turn them into one group.   I get that some people just don't get that this exoticism that strips the individuality away from the people under discussion; but my baby will be cute or not cute because of the way s/he looks not because of my race and my husband's race.  

 

Finally, as I said above, having aesthetic preferences that take ethnicity into account is common.  But don't kid yourself and think that they come out of nowhere.  THEY DON'T.  We have all been conditioned to prefer certain qualities and we take up those messages an mix them with whatever part of attraction is purely chemical--it's difficult to tell where our attractions come from.  You don't need to beat yourself up over your preferences.. Just recognize they aren't completely separate from what you have been taught and believed or have rebelled against.  That's true whether you like people who look nothing like you ethnically or prefer phenotypes similar to your own.  Whether yearn for a partner with the bluest eyes, or insist that the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice. And for that matter if you only like tall guys or busty girls... these were things that in part you picked up from culture at large and that some of the messages we ingest are pernicious and particularly damaging to women of color.  (I am ahppy to be thought of as sexy but... sultry asian women, latina spitfires, sassy black babes... none of these images are neutral, and none of these images come without a price)

 

In the end I'm not sure why I wrote this when Kama'aina Mama said everything more succinctly and clearly than I can...  (not that I'm implying she'd agree with what I said BUT I do agree with her.)

 

 

 

 

post #90 of 158


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taqah View Post

so much to comment on.

First of all Shimmering absolutely I agree --noting race is not racist-- agreed!! obviously we notice race, by pretending we don't see it is silly and frankly harmful. There was a study not long ago that noted how little white children are taught to think there is something wrong with other races because their parents will often try not to use racial identifiers.  An example at a predominantly white playground a white parent sees their child playing with the only black child in the playground and decides to invite him and his mother over for a play date.  The white parent then turns to their child and says "do you want to invite the boy you were playing with over next week?"  the white child having played with several boys says "which boy? "  and the parent answers something like "  the boy with the blue Tshirt." instead of "the black boy." even though there may be several children with blue Tshirts and in diverse societies race is one of the first things we notice about people.  These ways of ignoring race, while well intentioned,  teach white children to think there is something wrong with admitting they see race, and that race must be somehow bad.... and lead to the annoying "I'm color blind" Or "I don't care if you are black white or polka dotted" comments later on.  SO YES noting race is fine, acceptable, I would go so far as to say positive and healthy.

 

BUT grouping qualities by race is essentialising and racist--

deciding that "mixed babies are cute" whether its because you think that they are cuter than all black, all asian, all latino or all white babies smacks of exoticism and racism.  (Oh and Shimmering--As a child I also suffered the really awful racism-- the kind that includes physical violence -- just that because this comes from a better place and isn't as damaging doesn't make it not racist.  It just makes it less damaging and less hurtful. ) 

 

I, for one, am bothered when I am turned into a stand in for my entire racial group and when people assume I have positive or negative qualities because of my ethnicity. 
Yes there are some biological tendencies that often go along with phenotype and color (I don't pretend to say it's all nurture by any means) but not all koreans are inherently good at math, nor are all kenyans great runners.  Nor are all Thai women drop dead gorgeous. 

Besides a half ethiopian half german baby has little in common with a half vietnamese half white American who has little in common with a half dominican half armenian baby BUT they are all mixed.  Are they all "so cute" because they're mixed?  And if so, what does that really mean?  And half white american half black american babies-- to take just one common mixed race in the US--can look very different from each other.  But these comments turn them into one group.   I get that some people just don't get that this exoticism that strips the individuality away from the people under discussion; but my baby will be cute or not cute because of the way s/he looks not because of my race and my husband's race.  

 

Finally, as I said above, having aesthetic preferences that take ethnicity into account is common.  But don't kid yourself and think that they come out of nowhere.  THEY DON'T.  We have all been conditioned to prefer certain qualities and we take up those messages an mix them with whatever part of attraction is purely chemical--it's difficult to tell where our attractions come from.  You don't need to beat yourself up over your preferences.. Just recognize they aren't completely separate from what you have been taught and believed or have rebelled against.  That's true whether you like people who look nothing like you ethnically or prefer phenotypes similar to your own.  Whether yearn for a partner with the bluest eyes, or insist that the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice. And for that matter if you only like tall guys or busty girls... these were things that in part you picked up from culture at large and that some of the messages we ingest are pernicious and particularly damaging to women of color.  (I am ahppy to be thought of as sexy but... sultry asian women, latina spitfires, sassy black babes... none of these images are neutral, and none of these images come without a price)

 

In the end I'm not sure why I wrote this when Kama'aina Mama said everything more succinctly and clearly than I can...  (not that I'm implying she'd agree with what I said BUT I do agree with her.)

 

 

 

 



I really appreciate your comments... and I... well, I am not used to being called succinct, as I tend to run on at the mouth a bit... but thank you! (My nickname as a kid was "loquacious"!)  Good luck with your pregnancy and birth!

post #91 of 158

I just want to thank the OP for this thread. As a soon to be single white mama with a bi-racial baby in utero, I couldn't agree with her sentiment more. I also come from a family and background of many different ethnicities, and it makes me extremely uncomfortable when I get the "mixed babies are cuter" crap. Whether it's meant to be a compliment or not, it isn't. I've had men compliment particular parts of my anatomy that were just as unwelcome "compliments", so the analogy that TigerChild made was spot on. I particularly liked what she had to say as a woman who experienced the "compliment" growing up.

 

As for racism not "counting" if it's framed in a positive light, I don't buy that argument at all. Just because a certain racially framed comment or action doesn't result in an overtly negative outcome doesn't mean that it isn't racist. The subtly exists such that in many cases (not all, but many), simply the act of commenting on racial features is a form of "different" treatment. 

 

I am new to this particular forum and have stayed in my DDC for the most part, but the closer I get to my due date, the more this topic weighs on my mind, especially as I live in one of the least diverse cities in the country. There are so many things to respond to here... suffice to say I can't respond to all I would like, or I'd be writing a manifesto of sorts. LOL

 

I'm just thrilled to hear from women of ethnic background different from my own who have wisdom to share. Thank you.

post #92 of 158
Thread Starter 

A few PM's have brought me back to this thread for the first time in a while. My daughter was born on June 4 (and happens to be quite cute), so I've been busy with the basics! However, I am excited to see that some really thoughtful conversation has developed around all of this. I have to say, it's still frustrating to read when people jump on the opportunity to discuss their kids' skin color and how cute it is (so really not the point of my original post... or so exactly the point, i guess...), too.

 

A friend gave me a copy of the book "Does Anybody Else Look Like Me?", which basically addresses what I was getting at originally. If anyone is interested, it's a pretty good read - particularly for people who think the idea that these comments are racist is a stretch, or doubt the impact on the young, developing psyches of our kids.

 

 

 

 

post #93 of 158
I mentioned that book a while back ago, but it undoubtedly got buried in the thread! It's not the only book on this topic, but it was one that I found particularly helpful. It's a good introduction to people who may not have previous knowledge or experience in these kinds of issues. Hopefully folks will post more resources, or even create a list of good sources on our wiki (now called Site tutorials, no idea why)!
post #94 of 158

Well everyone is entitled to his/her own opinions on what is more attractive...I personally have seen biracial children who were not "SO CUTE" and I have seen children who come from parents of the same race who are absolutely goregous!!! (My son being from parents of the same race is absolutely stunning from what I've been told from other races) I don't think when people say your child is going to be cute because he is mixed is offensive, I actually find that comment to be extremely "IGNORANT"!!! Why can't the child just be cute because the parents are attractive!!! Sheeesh!!! WHY does everything have to be about race???? If people know their history, they would know that "WE" as a people are technically not just "ONE RACE"!!! We are all mixed with something...When you go down your family history, you will find that you have some different ethnicities in your family tree.(Some more than others!) Like Martin Luther King Jr. once said "Don't judge me by the color of my skin but by the content of my character"!

post #95 of 158

To original poster:

 

I agree with you. I think it is unfortunate that people focus on the physical attributes of a child versus the fact that the child is a blessing, whatever the circumstances. I have biracial children, and I don't think it necessarily makes them cuter than other children. They just are who they are. I have seen beautiful babies and children across the spectrum, and I have also seen babies and children where I can only remark that they are "precious or darling." With that being said, if the remarks are really bothering you, you can do what I would do when my kids were really little - ask the person making the comment if they have kids and if their kids ARE NOT of mixed heritage, do they think their kids are unattractive as a result. Watch them shut up very quickly!

post #96 of 158

One thing I forgot to add...check out the book "Curly Like Me" or the author of the book, Teri LaFlesh. I reference this because she has resources on her website (which I can't remember the URL for right now) that has several different websites and books that offer information and support for interracial couples and parents of bi/multiracial children.

Never had this issue when I lived in Germany. Only in America...

post #97 of 158

Hi all,

 

I just stumbled upon this thread and am so glad!  I have a 10 month old bi/tri-racial little girl and when I was pregnant I heard many of the same comments others did about bi-racial cuteness.  Generally I wasnt too bothered by it because I truly felt that these comments werent coming from a bad place.  But...

 

I also got some not so thinly veiled racist comments - though the people who said them would be horrified if I said that to them.  Quite a few times I heard - oh her dad is light (African American/multi-racial) and you are so fair that she wont be that dark...ookkkaayyy so what does that dark mean?  Now that her hair is getting a little longer people have commented how staight it seems to be - many times I feel like they are congratulating her on winning the genetic lottery because her hair doesnt seem "kinky".  I also squirm at the term exotic - mostly because while "exotic" women are seen as beautiful, often their beauty is fetishized.  

 

This is probably worth another whole thread but...Her dad is not in our lives and I often think about how I am going to answer her inevitable questions about him.  One aspect is his race and how being bi-racial will be incorporated into her identity - if at all.  I honestly just want her to be her as I am who I am but is that denying her something?  With her gorgeous dark brown eyes and olive skin it is obvious that her dad is darker than I am but (to use a completely vulgar term) she can "pass".  So she probably will not encounter the racism that many people of color experience - so how does that factor into her self-identity as bi-racial?  I have seen interviews and read much on the subject of being bi-racial and one common thread I have noticed is that very light skinned people who choose to identify as Black but do not encounter racism because of their lightness get resistance from some in the Black community to identifying as Black.

 

I will probably get "Does Anybody Else Look Like Me?" to read but since she isnt obviously bi-racial and her dad isnt involved, I wonder if it will still be helpful...

 

 

post #98 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosemommy View Post

Hi all,

 

I just stumbled upon this thread and am so glad!  I have a 10 month old bi/tri-racial little girl and when I was pregnant I heard many of the same comments others did about bi-racial cuteness.  Generally I wasnt too bothered by it because I truly felt that these comments werent coming from a bad place.  But...

 

I also got some not so thinly veiled racist comments - though the people who said them would be horrified if I said that to them.  Quite a few times I heard - oh her dad is light (African American/multi-racial) and you are so fair that she wont be that dark...ookkkaayyy so what does that dark mean?  Now that her hair is getting a little longer people have commented how staight it seems to be - many times I feel like they are congratulating her on winning the genetic lottery because her hair doesnt seem "kinky".  I also squirm at the term exotic - mostly because while "exotic" women are seen as beautiful, often their beauty is fetishized.  

 

This is probably worth another whole thread but...Her dad is not in our lives and I often think about how I am going to answer her inevitable questions about him.  One aspect is his race and how being bi-racial will be incorporated into her identity - if at all.  I honestly just want her to be her as I am who I am but is that denying her something?  With her gorgeous dark brown eyes and olive skin it is obvious that her dad is darker than I am but (to use a completely vulgar term) she can "pass".  So she probably will not encounter the racism that many people of color experience - so how does that factor into her self-identity as bi-racial?  I have seen interviews and read much on the subject of being bi-racial and one common thread I have noticed is that very light skinned people who choose to identify as Black but do not encounter racism because of their lightness get resistance from some in the Black community to identifying as Black.

 

I will probably get "Does Anybody Else Look Like Me?" to read but since she isnt obviously bi-racial and her dad isnt involved, I wonder if it will still be helpful...

 

 

 

Hi I would recommend the book or others like it (I haven't actually read it) even if it does not specifically apply to her.  As a multiracial person who has "passed"  for large portions, but not all of her life, I can tell you that, first of all, features change overtime.. Though she passes at 10 months she may not pass at all at 13-- genetics is funny that way. 

 

The other  thing about passing is that you hear disparaging remarks about your ethnicity and race in contexts that a person who looks more fully one race will never hear.  So you still need to be prepared for those kinds of encounters. 

 

It won't be the same for her as it would for a darker, more obviously black girl,  and in someways its harder to prepare children for what to expect when you don't look stereotypically one race or another.  For example those children's books featuring a girl learning to feel pride in her African features and dark skin won't read the same way to a girl with say some typically African features but light colored skin or dark colored girl with a more stereotypically white phenotype, or a girl considered black by US standards because one parent is black but whose features are predominantly those of a white girl.   But those books still help gain understanding that there are many ways to look and that there is no wrong way to look and that the white norm so often projected is just one of many ways to be.

 

As for identifying as any race when you are mixed-- you get resistance from everywhere; that is just the way it goes.  Now, I certainly don't mean to say that everyone will object to every self identification; but I notice that if I identify as "mixed" people can often feel like I'm white-washing my "of color" sides or trying to play it both ways.   If I identify as white, whites think it's suspect and people of color will point out that in the US the one drop rule still exists and that I am kidding myself.  If I identify as fully "of color" people will say it's so easy for me to say that since I can pass and change my mind at any time-- And you know what? to some extent they are all correct-- the thing is they are all wrong too.  There can be a tendency to choose one aspect of a race or ethnicity and decide it is the key feature to be used to define if people can belong.  For a few people in the black american community it is "have you encountered oppression?" ie "do you look black enough to directly experience racism?"  But this just defines black culture solely as overcoming racism or "sticking it to the man." That is important, but black culture would be poor indeed if this was its only characteristic--and I don't think that anyone thinks that it is--unless they are using it to be exclusionary.  Similarly some  latinos  use Spanish as the litmus test for whether people are really latino-- again if language is all being latino is about, it's a pretty limited identity.  That said, a latino who doesn't speak Spanish, or a black person who passes and therefore doesn't encounter the same kinds of impediments to success, will have a different experiences from Latinos that speak Spanish or someone obviously black.

 

As multiracial, my experiences within all of my ethnic/racial communities have been different than they would be if I had grown up more specifically one race.  There is no way around that, and to some people different equals not authentic or not as real.  But times are changing people are growing more used to multiracial people; I have noticed that my little cousin's experiences have been somewhat different than mine even though we have similar background (I am 15 years older than she is). 

 

What any multiracial child needs is a strong sense of self and a strong connection with all of her communities.  The challenge in your particular case might  be to keep her connected with the black american community if the father isn't  involved.  Because it's that connection along with her connection to  your community  that will keep her strong and teach her to navigate the world at large.  She will be who she is, as you are who you are.  but, if you are white american the reality is that you have probably gotten away without thinking about how your race affects your life.  White as she may look, she will never have that option unless you lie about her background all together--and obviously no one would recommend that.  There is a price paid to being a minority in that you are aware of race and privileges accorded  or  negated because of it, in a way few white people are, but you can turn that awareness into a benefit too (not everyone does of course--  nor is it necessary to be of color to be aware).  Being aware can be annoying but you can also use it as a tool to teach you to be sensitive and aware of all kinds of issues of power and equality. 
 

 

post #99 of 158

Taqah,

 

Thank you so much for the reply and sharing your perspective and your experience as a multiracial woman!  Any resources you can think of to help me further would be great.

 

  

post #100 of 158

I would try to reassure you about the impact this will have on your daughter (as I think everyone is pretty much trying to do).  I am a mixed race mom (Chinese/Anglo) and my sister and I got a variety of comments (some good and some bad) when we were growing up 20+ years ago. 

 

The thing is that I do think that there are a number of layers to the comment that mixed race kids are cuter. 

1) People are trying to be sure you know that they aren't racist by expressing approval for your mixed race relationship.  They could be trying to overcompensate for feelings of disapproval since they are demonstrating that they're aware of the racial difference. 

2) People may genuinely think that.  Mixed race kids do have unexpected combinations of features, and the novelty of that is often appealing whether or not it's inherently better or more attractive than being of a single race. 

 

I always appreciated it when people expressed approval for the mixed race appearance of me and my sister (as a girl it was hard to escape a focus on appearance whether it had anything to do with race or not).  The comments that troubled more were the ones that focused on our identity and the ambiguity surrounding that.  I have an uncle who has questioned a number of times how my sister and I can have a racial/cultural identity since we're mixed.  That definitely rankled me since I feel we are simply the individuals we are, with the heritages that we have. 

 

Sorry if I've kept a thread gonig that you were ready to have expire, but had to throw my two cents in :-)

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