How do we handle our new DRUNK BFF? Update

[Ldavis24]

Sarcasm there. 

We live on a very private cul de sac but the bike path is directly behind us and there is a store right next to that. Sooo for years now people have walked down the driveway and then onto the yard and on a path that goes to the bike path. DH has grown up with this so he is completely used to it.

I myself HATE it in general. It drives me crazy, our dog goes nuts and runs to see people whenever they walk (and it is often, at least 3 people a day during the winter and more during the summer, usually just neighborhood folk) down the driveway and path and then I have to chase after her. People also throw trash all over the place which is another big annoyance to me. If I had the money myself I would fence off the whole yard but that is just who I am..

Oh this is on the edge of the property (the path) BTW...

So for the past few days this guy in his mid forties has been walking on the path and I actually watched him stumble and almost fall the first day. DH and I are outside almost all day today and he comes by at about 10am and yells something to DH and I who are doing a burn pile. We couldn't hear him so we just kinda go "oh yeah..."....He goes by (to the store obviously) and comes back a few minutes later, yells at us again and DH says he sounds drunk..

Later in the day at around 1ish he comes AGAIN dragging a little dog so I have to once again grab our dog to stop her running up there...He yells more, we still can't understand him and he goes to the store again. Comes back 15 minutes later and I am inside with DD...DH recounts that the guy stumbled down the hill that the path is at the top of and almost falls. He gets in DH's face, tells DH that he likes "smoke and drink and he does a whole lot of it!" and then asks DH if the next time he walks by DH would like to smoke with him... DH is shocked, polite and confused and just says, "No thanks." The says well next time if he wants to!...

DH then goes to get lunch and asks the woman who works there (whom we are friends with) about the guy. She said bought a pint of vodka each time he came in and was CLEARLY wasted the second time. Awesome...

So I am not cool with this guy regularly walking across our property regardless of whether he is drunk or not. He mentioned to DH that he lives "right down the road" so apparently we will be seeing a lot of him...We can't afford a fence to keep people out...The path is really well worn and it is very well established that the neighbors can use it as much as they want. I don't care about the other people, I care about this creep walking down our driveway being drunk, being an arse to me and me having to deal with it all summer because DD and I spend practically all day outside...

I have a few options I can think of but if anyone has more that would be great...

Next time guy comes just get serious and tell him to keep his drunk behind off our property.

Tell him we have to close the path so he needs to walk some other way.

Call the non-emergency police line and ask them what we can do.

We can't afford to fence it or block it off in such a way that people wouldn't walk around the blockade...

Any suggestions?

[peainthepod]

Can you put up a "Private Property - No Trespassing" sign at your property line? It sounds like the path isn't paved, so would it be possible to plant a few thorny bushes on it to block it off? People could still walk around it, of course, but you'd be making a very clear point. You might also think about re-sodding the path so it's not as obvious/visible.

Something like this wouldn't look too awful and that plus the rose bush or heavy cement planters or whatever would make it pretty clear.

Other than that I guess you just have to be vigilant about chasing people off your property, or even calling the police whenever the drunk guy trespasses. I'm sorry, mama--that sounds really frustrating. I wouldn't like it at all if people were using my lawn as a communal sidewalk. That's what...sidewalks...are for. 

[Ldavis24]

I find it is irritating but I think DH is used to it since it has been happening since he was a kid (his mom's house) and laughs because I am the kind of person that doesn't really want anyone on my property...I'm that grumpy old dude with a gun just sitting on his porch waiting to yell at people who put a foot on his property

I hadn't actually thought about trying some BIG thorny bushes! I think that is a great a idea and something we could afford. At one point DH's mom put a few downed tree limbs across our driveway's entrance to the path and 2 no trespassing signs...Didn't slow people down a bit. It is VERY entrenched in most people's mind in the neighborhood that hey this is totally acceptable. I grew up with the message that I never go on other people's property (knowingly) without permission so it blows my mind to see everyone from teenagers to old women walking down our driveway and onto the path..

The part that kills me is they actually have to walk 50 yards down the driveway just to get on the path and get very close to our house, that is part of the reason I hate it!

It came to a head with drunk guy who apparently will be walking this path A LOT...I cannot abide it. What if he fell down our lawn and hurt himself...LAWSUIT or just a PITA at the very least. I am going to talk to DH about it today...Like I said if I had my way I would fence off the whole yard but it is a very large yard and we cannot afford that at all so maybe it is time to invest is some nice big shrubs...

[mattemma04]

I gave up a new driveway and house siding to install a fence around my entire property. I too hate people cutting across. Drunks are a concern.People do things(sexual) that they otherwise would not. I would be concerned for yourself and dd. If it were me I would get a boundary survey done to know the exact property line.Then I would install some Tposts and in the least run some fencing wire on it(atleast 2 strands).Wire fencing would be better for keeping pets in/out.

Hawthorne and berry bushes can also be planted.Raspberry canes grow fast. My personal favorite is stinging nettle.That stuff will sting you for hours.It is healthful in a stir fry too!

Some other options are to add some fencing yourself(cheap prefab panels) that extend from the side of you home out to the property line.Then run it down as far as you can afford,and either do more wood or the wire fencing.If you do wire you can grow some corn on the inside of it for privacy. I have corn that growns 15 feet tall.

Across the drive you can run a chain to eye screws that are set in metal or wood posts.I have seen this across peoples drives where I am assuming they had a lot of turn-around issues.

If the path is on your property fence it in and make it disappear. People need a bit more excercise in this country, and it would do them good to take the long way.Dh may be OK with it,but that does not mean you have to tolerate it. Do what you can to get people away from your yard.Personally I would not make exceptions for kids or the nice couple next door-everyone needs to stay off.Best wishes!

[Ldavis24]

thank you for the advice mama!

DH and I have been talking about it a lot this morning and I think he really gets why I am so bothered by it. He feels bad though because there are a few nice neighbors who in theory we wouldn't object to using the path...Unfortunately it has to be all or nothing so we both agree NO ONE is allowed to use the path anymore. We are going to transplant some decent sized trees we have on the property onto the path. We have a lot of chicken wire leftover from building our coop and we are going to set that up on posts to block it off as well. We are going to get more no trespassing signs and put them all over the place. We are going to make a sign at the top of the driveway saying sorry NO MORE WALKING DOWN THE DRIVEWAY...

What I don't understand is there are people like this drunk guy who we have never seen before...How does he know it is ok to walk down some random person's driveway? Who told him it was ok? I feel like there is someone out there going "yeah just go down this driveway and onto the path..."

I would like to find that person and throttle them.

I hate it, I spend all day outside with DD during the summer and half the time we are playing in our bathing suits in the kiddie pool...The dog ALWAYS runs when someone comes down the path and I have to chase her every single time. I am sick of this. I don't know where people got the idea it is cool to invade other people's property but where I come from we have respect for someone else's property and I would NEVER go down someone's driveway. Period

[JudiAU]

Well a fence is what you really need. Consider a cheap option or thrifted or CL or freecylce fencing to get it done. Otherwise, I'd get a lot of Private Property - Fierce Dog signs and outline your property line. If you want to change behavior, you need to give people notice. I doubt most people think or consider that they are on private property.

Also, you said you were friendly with the store owner. Consider asking her to hang sign or instruction patrons about how to access the pass without going on private property. If you weren't friendly, I'd regularly call the ABC for your state and complain about her license. It is illegal to sell alchohol to drunk people.

[laohaire]

Technically if someone wanted to challenge it, you might have already given that path to the public. I'm not that familiar with real estate laws, but I know that after some amount of years (20?) if you permit others to use the property, then it becomes theirs/public. You might want to look into it. Sorry, I forgot the word for it.

Anyway, I agree you should do the transplant or whatever else you can dig up. And a No Trespassing sign. Tell your neighbors you're sorry about it but you don't want to be liable for any accidents on your property. And you just had a guy on it that looked like he might take quite a tumble, right?

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by Ldavis24 

I find it is irritating but I think DH is used to it since it has been happening since he was a kid (his mom's house)

Unless your dh is still a teenager, you may now have a public right of way through your land. Most places its 20 years of common usage makes it public. You may be out of luck.

[Irishmommy]

And laohaire beat me to it!

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by laohaire 

Technically if someone wanted to challenge it, you might have already given that path to the public. I'm not that familiar with real estate laws, but I know that after some amount of years (20?) if you permit others to use the property, then it becomes theirs/public. You might want to look into it. Sorry, I forgot the word for it.

Anyway, I agree you should do the transplant or whatever else you can dig up. And a No Trespassing sign. Tell your neighbors you're sorry about it but you don't want to be liable for any accidents on your property. And you just had a guy on it that looked like he might take quite a tumble, right?

ETA: Regardless of the path being public or not, the driveway could not possibly be public no matter what right....right?? The driveway is the ONLY way to access the path.

My family is in realestate and my grandfather has been in the game for years so I will ask. I had never heard of this and frankly the thought disgusts me.

I couldn't stop this traffic because now it belongs to the public??? So if I just filled it in with downed trees and shrubs and made it impassable what would happen? I doubt most people in the neighborhood know about that particular law and I am afraid it would be past the 20 year limit which sucks. 

Maybe a fence will be the only thing that works...The upside to that would be not worrying about the dog running off so much which would be nice..

Yeah the guy almost fell down the hill according to DH so it is a major liability issue in that regard. So if it is "public" land what would it look like on a property map? Also if someone hurt themself on the path who would be responsible? The town, I very much doubt the town would be cool with that..

I think we will stick with our plan and just fill in the path with shrubs etc, Raspberry bushes are actually already all over the place adjacent to the bike path so I know they grow well and they are like weeds.

We will proceed as planned regardless of the pulblic domain thing... That is the kind of BS that makes me hate real estate/ zoning laws.

[laohaire]

I think you should try to fence it off - just sayin', it's POSSIBLE you could have some trouble with it. But I would just fence it off quietly and try to sneak it by, and be nice and apologetic to the neighbors. Y'all sure don't want anyone spraining their ankle tripping over your dog or something, right? :)

For it to be declared public, somebody is going to have to object. It's not like someone just wrote in the records at the town hall "it's public" on December 18, 2004, 20 years to the date of the first neighbor who took a shortcut :) Somebody would have to dispute your actions, and I'm guessing it's possible you could effectively "undo" it if nobody speaks up and if you prevent further public use.

ETA: About the driveway, I don't know... it's POSSIBLE that could be declared public too. If someone tried. Even more of a reason to button this up now.

EATA: I asked my DH, who was in real estate for a little while (not long, and he's not a lawyer or anything). He thinks the fact of the driveway doesn't really matter - it could still be declared a public right of way anyway. BUT he also thinks that it's very unlikely anyone will challenge your actions if you close it off. Someone would have to be darn committed - hire a lawyer, all that. So go ahead and seal that off.

[greenmulberry]

Yeah, what you are talking about is "adverse possession", and it is very hard for it to actually occur. Sure there have been some publicized cases in the media, but you have to actually live somewhere that has this rule, and someone has to challenge you for it. Do you really think any of these people are going to make a drawn out court case so they can cut through your yard? No!

It usually only works when someone essentially abandons a piece of land for over a decade then wants to come back and finds that someone has been farming it or something.

Put up the dang fence. That is what I would do. Just put up whatever is the best fence you can afford.

Here in Iowa, we do have an adverse possesion law, which is how I know about it because when DH was in law school they learned about it.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by laohaire 

I think you should try to fence it off - just sayin', it's POSSIBLE you could have some trouble with it. But I would just fence it off quietly and try to sneak it by, and be nice and apologetic to the neighbors. Y'all sure don't want anyone spraining their ankle tripping over your dog or something, right? :)

For it to be declared public, somebody is going to have to object. It's not like someone just wrote in the records at the town hall "it's public" on December 18, 2004, 20 years to the date of the first neighbor who took a shortcut :) Somebody would have to dispute your actions, and I'm guessing it's possible you could effectively "undo" it if nobody speaks up and if you prevent further public use.

ETA: About the driveway, I don't know... it's POSSIBLE that could be declared public too. If someone tried. Even more of a reason to button this up now.

EATA: I asked my DH, who was in real estate for a little while (not long, and he's not a lawyer or anything). He thinks the fact of the driveway doesn't really matter - it could still be declared a public right of way anyway. BUT he also thinks that it's very unlikely anyone will challenge your actions if you close it off. Someone would have to be darn committed - hire a lawyer, all that. So go ahead and seal that off.

thanks laohaire! I was momentarily freaking out and just being irriated at the thought of someone's driveway being public property..

I do agree that I think we will just do this quietly...We can get the very very basic stake and wire type deal and do it ourselves easily..If a neighbor complained (which frankly I think someone would but maybe not to us directly, more just you know @^#%in about how we suck) I would put up a fight. Like you said it would be a lot of work on their part to prove it etc...Most of the people around here are busy with their own lives you know...The key will be to get this fence up in ONE day so we don't have to deal with it being partially done and people tearing it down. They are really disrespectful of the property. I can't tell you how many BAGS of trash we have hauled away and BROKEN GLASS is everywhere. I am a huge barefooter and I can't do it safely nearly the path because of the broken glass...

Ok I am gonna talk to DH about this and we are gonna get a plan of action going...It sucks though because we can't really afford the fencing now but I'd rather get it over with quickly...Oh, MIL has to ok this but I was telling her about the drunk guy today and she was really upset about it so I don't think it will be an issue she isn't a fan of the random people either.

[MariesMama]

We had a similar situation when I was a child - a street dead-ended into our driveway and picked back up on the other side of our lot.  There was a well worn path right along a fence (neighboring trailer park) on the very edge of our property.  Drunks, crazies, you name it.  My dad found that moving our compost pile, particularly the part with the manure, right into and along the path did wonders. 

You could try this until you are able to buy the fencing.  Nobody likes a stinky pile of poo.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by MariesMama 

We had a similar situation when I was a child - a street dead-ended into our driveway and picked back up on the other side of our lot.  There was a well worn path right along a fence (neighboring trailer park) on the very edge of our property.  Drunks, crazies, you name it.  My dad found that moving our compost pile, particularly the part with the manure, right into and along the path did wonders. 

You could try this until you are able to buy the fencing.  Nobody likes a stinky pile of poo.

I like the way your dad thinks!

We spoke with my MIL tonight and she is full on board with it. I talked about the whole "public property" issue and she that is why she has repeatedly, ever since the property was bought posted no trespassing signs. Apparently they get torn down all the time (thank you rude neighbors) but they have been posted over and over again for the past 2 decades which I believe negates the whole "public property" argument in the first place. Plus as a PP pointed out how could anyone prove that anyway?...Why would they waste the time/money...It is a non issue...

So tomorrow DH and I are implementing "the plan" which will involve moving several large shrubs to the path, and erecting a barrier of chicken wire as well. In addition we will post notices at the top of the driveway and the again at the both entrances to the path. I will not longer stop my dog from running up to someone rude enough to continue trying and if I am asked about it I will politely explain that it is a liability/safety issue and NO ONE is welcome to use it anymore. Period. 

We need to get it done really soon though because once the summer people come, the foot traffic more than triples and we literally have people coming and go all day...

So here is hoping "the plan" works!

[number572]

Poor man's fencing?  AKA, dig holes, place 2x4's at 6' high in buckets of concrete (all temporary), and wire it off.  Hang the 'No Trespass' signs on that.  You'd only need it for the area that is unclear to trespassers.  Until you can find a true fence that you can afford to have installed for your entire yard.

As a kid, we lived rurally and I remember some signs that read "trespassers may legally be shot on sight" or something similar, those worked really well for us to keep out of people's property!

Good luck, sounds annoying and unnerving.

EDIT

Oh, we were posting at the same time.  Your plan sounds effective!  Best luck.

[number572]

Actually, with the level of foot traffic you mention... what about charging a bridge fee?!  lol.  You could make some summer cash!

[Ldavis24]

hehe we could!...That would mean I have to intercept everyone all day though, I'd say on a summer day mid season there are at least 30 people that go down the path. it is CRAZY...I want to play with DD outside all day and not chase my dog up the hill every 10 minutes...It is her yard she has a right to be concerned about strangers in the property so I can't fault doggie for it. 

We are working on the fence again today. People are going to be furious (the locals) and I know we are going to be doing a lot of repairs in the beginning and sign repostings..People literally just tear stuff down, which I find amazing because I was raised a little more respectful than that...Sigh...

Here is hoping it works I will update when we see how things go.

[Dandelionkid]

Adverse possession wouldn't apply (according to Wiki). One short blurb among others that would disqualify anyone from claiming rights: 

"Basic requirements for adverse possession

Adverse possession requires at a minimum five basic conditions being met to perfect the title of the disseisor. These are:

• Actual possession of the property - The disseisor must physically use the land as a property owner would, in accordance with the type of property, location, and uses. Merely walking or hunting on land does not establish actual possession"

Good luck!

[mommy2two babes]

I dont have alot of time, I wrote a long response last night but it got eaten.

Not sure where you live or the laws there but it wouldn't be advese possesion but rather implied right of way/easement.

Like this

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Law/Question283626.html