Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy
Originally Posted by choli
Because they are being taught in Abstinence Ed that condoms and birth control don't work, and they have the kind of parents who equate birth control with stealing and using illegal drugs, so they can't discuss birth control at home and find out the truth.
That is the kind of parenting that tends to lead to unplanned pregnancy.
Wow. That was unnecessary and untrue.
It may be unnecessary, but it appears to be fairly well documented that abstinence only education leads to more unplanned pregnancies than comprehensive sex ed does.
Originally Posted by treeoflife3
Comparing teaching kids how to stay safe should they decide to have sex to doing drugs is faulty logic. Drugs aren't a biologically normal part of life. Our bodies don't hit a drug puberty where hormones tell us to go out and get speed and meth.
There are lots of hormones that might lead a teen to try drugs! Adolescence is such a confusing time & all those hormones pumping through can lead kids to be more likely to take risks, to search for something to improve or alter their mental state, etc.
That's a far more indirect process, though. We don't have a biological imperative to do drugs.
Originally Posted by treeoflife3
It is ridiculous to try to compare something human being are driven to do to keep the species alive to something humans do that has no vital or necessary purpose whatsoever.
If birth control is used, then technically sex would have pretty much the same purpose as drugs. Both can relieve stress, fulfill a desire, make you feel good, etc. and neither would do much to help keep our species alive.
Drugs don't improve your health, though. Sex may have its risks, but it also has actual physical and emotional benefits. Feeling good through drugs doesn't generally have a beneficial effect on one's health. Feeling good through sex does.
Originally Posted by treeoflife3
Moreover, using birth control is not the same as stealing food. There are many ways to acquire food legally, but there is only the use of contraceptives to avoid pregnancy and disease. It is naive at best to expect ALL people to not have sex unless they are married.
Contraceptives are NOT the only way to avoid pregnancy and disease. NFP can help avoid pregnancy, for ex., with better rates of effectiveness than artificial BC... Actually, I would love if NFP were taught in schools because it can be so empowering to have that kind of knowledge about how your body works... Abstinence is another option and that doesn't mean JUST 'waiting until marriage' but could also include waiting until you know & trust someone 100%, abstaining during high-risk periods, etc. Maybe you don't like the abstinence option but it IS an option that can't be discounted.
Nobody is discounting abstinence as an option. We're discounting abstinence only "education". Those are two different things.
Originally Posted by JavaJunkie
It would be wrong to teach stealing because stealing is ILLEGAL. Using bc may be IMMORAL(in your eyes) but it is not ILLEGAL.
OK smoking then??? It does serve a positive purpose (relaxing, keep a few extra pounds off, etc.), it's not illegal... I chose illegal examples only because they were the first to pop into my head and I thought maybe people could relate to it... It was meant to explain my point of view, not necessarily to insult anyone...
Personally, I think smoking is stupid (and that's from someone who smoked off and on for about 10 years). But, I don't think it's immoral. It's just stuipd. It's also inherently self-destructive, which sex is not.
Hormonal birth control is not natural & can have tons of negative side effects. Even condoms contain chemicals, can cause allergic reactions, can break, etc.
Neither of those things are the same as birth control being immoral, though. Taking risks (side effects, allergic reaction, condom failure, etc.) isn't immoral.
I don't think there is anything wrong with asking people to control their impulses and not give in to every urge. Obviously it's possible, because most teenagers seem capable of waiting 'til they are alone, 'til the parents are gone for the weekend, etc. so it's not like it's impossible to have a little self-control. Maybe it's not easy but that doesn't mean it's pointless. BC basically says you can do whatever you want and there won't be any (or very small likelihood of) consequences. I don't believe that's a healthy attitude, and then when the BC fails (not just talking about unplanned pregnancy but also disease) it's a huge shock because "I was being safe, I was being careful, how could this happen?"
The bolded part is funny to me. IME, as someone who both had sex as a teenager, and as someone who had sex with my now-dh when we'd both sworn up, down, left, right and sideways ahead of time that we were going to be purely platonic, these things are very rarely an issue of "waiting" for the right situation. It's usually more a matter of finding themselves in a situation where sex is possible. Sure - sometimes people manufacture those opportunities, but that's not the norm, ime. And, nobody is talking about whether or not people give in to "every urge". I had the urge to have sex about 20 times a day throughout my teens. I can't imagine anybody realistically suggesting that anybody, ever, just drop everything and have sex every time they have the urge to do so. There's a difference between finding appropriate times, places and partners, and waiting from the onset of puberty until marriage, whenever that may be. In my case, that was about 11 years, but it obviously varies. Having a bit of self-control and waiting 10 years are two very different things, and suggesting that being able to wait for the right situation has anything to do with abstinence makes about as much sense to me as saying that if you can wait to eat until dinner's ready, it shouldn't be a problem to go a month without eating - two totally different situations, which only have the delay of food in common. (I can also tell you that it's not always about trashy sex, the way a lack of self control usually seems to be portrayed. I the case of dh and I, it was about the fact that he was going back home for a couple of months the next day, and I just couldn't stand the idea of losing him for so long, and it made me desperately, desperately want to be closer to him. The couple from ds1's class that had the baby last year - she's been the only girl for him since a case of "puppy love" in fifth grade.)
As to the latter part, the fact that birth control can fail, and people don't bother to take that into account doesn't make birth control immoral. It means that people can be stupid. This isn't news. People make stupid decisions, and having sex while being completely sure that you can't possibly get pregnant is not using your brain (or not having good information/education). And, it also doesn't really relate to abstinence only education, as there are plenty of married people who also use birth control, for various reasons. Heck - NFP is birth control.