bi-polar sociopath daughter

[Beatrice Easter]

I have the unfortune of having given birth to a bi-polar daughter who gave us plenty of grief since she is in her early teen age years. After 3 suicidal attempts, 3 psychosis and many attempts to save her, I now had to admit she is also a sociopath and I had to tell her she is no longer welcome at our house. Of course, she shows no remorse and it breaks my heart. She has stolen from us, has shown since childhood no respect for other people's property and change friends as with underwears. I was blinded for years with her lies and manipulations, then blamed myself when she was diagnosed bi-polar as it is genetically given.

Lately, it is obvious she stopped her meds, she lost job, stopped school and lost her place to leave. Out of my good heart, I let her come home, only to find her using our cars at night, using drugs, stealing from us and of course constantly lying. She shows no remorse and my heart already broken times and times over, is still pouring out tears every night. I am a christian but I am torn with my decision of having to kick her out of my life but I need to protect myself and my "liver transplant" candidate of a husband. How can I make peace with this horrible conflict of kicking your own child out of your home. I also spoke very harshly to her, telling her she lost her mother, that she has a black heart bla bla bla etc and now I feel bad. I see from her facebook page that she is planning to leave-without saying good bye and of course non apologetic from stealing from us etc. She is 22, I know she is going to crash again. I am having a hard time making peace with not seeing her again. Does anyone have experienced having to kick out what I now see like a monster out of their lives? I also feel quite horrible I gave birth to such individual who had shown such promises earlier and was my sweetie for so long. She is only 22 and from what I read, her life will be havoc, how can I make peace with this?

[Amatullah0]

God tests us in different ways, to strengthen our faith, and He doesn't give us a test that is too hard to handle. 

Your daughter is a blessing. She has mental illness, but that doesn't make her a terrible person. What is she like when she is on her meds?  

ETFix: really bad wording.

Edited by Amatullah0 - 5/2/11 at 10:48am

[lalaland42]

*hugs* Can you search out a local support group for parents of mentally ill adult children? Mental illness can be so tough but that doesn't make your daughter evil. It sounds like some IRL support would be helpful to you right now.

[Marnica]

I agree with above poster. You need support not criticism. Please contact your local NAMI chapter and get some help for yourself.

 I found some feedback a bit harsh. The OP is clearly conflicted and heartbroken about what has become of her relationship with her daughter. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but in this case I fail to see how it would be helpful to the OP. As an LCSW who works with the chronically severely mentally ill population, I work daily with folks like this and their families. It is easy to just say love your child no matter what (as a parent I appreciate the sentiment and would like to think given this type of challenge, I would be able to rise to it) but the reality is so much harder and more complicated/complex.

[Amatullah0]

This should probably be posted in personal growth if you're trying to make peace with leaving your daughter. But honestly, it sounds like it would suck to have OP a a mom. And yeah, I know my above comment came out harsh, I'll go back and try to fix it if I can find the right words.

OP, have you tried to HELP your daughter? Inpatient therapy would keep her on her meds, if the meds actually help. I really think she needs love. It wont "fix" everything, but it might make you both feel better. 

If you decide to let her go, then make peace with her dying soon. And be aware that you will probably feel worse if that does happen.

My parents treated my brother like this, didn't get him enough help when he had a drug problem(mixed with antisocial personality disorder) EVEN after he ODed on alcohol before age 18, then he went and ODed on heroin at 18. 

OP, you should find a good therapist for yourself too. Thats another mistake my mom made. She put all of her kids in therapy, but refused to go herself, because she didn't realize that since her kids had(real or perceived issues) she also had a problem(with accepting her children). 

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Amatullah0 

This should probably be posted in personal growth if you're trying to make peace with leaving your daughter. But honestly, it sounds like it would suck to have OP a a mom. And yeah, I know my above comment came out harsh, I'll go back and try to fix it if I can find the right words.

OP, have you tried to HELP your daughter? Inpatient therapy would keep her on her meds, if the meds actually help. I really think she needs love. It wont "fix" everything, but it might make you both feel better. 

If you decide to let her go, then make peace with her dying soon. And be aware that you will probably feel worse if that does happen.

My parents treated my brother like this, didn't get him enough help when he had a drug problem(mixed with antisocial personality disorder) EVEN after he ODed on alcohol before age 18, then he went and ODed on heroin at 18. 

OP, you should find a good therapist for yourself too. Thats another mistake my mom made. She put all of her kids in therapy, but refused to go herself, because she didn't realize that since her kids had(real or perceived issues) she also had a problem(with accepting her children). 

 WOW. Obviously you blame your mom for not saving your brother. I can see why that would cloud any objective feedback you might be able to give OP. What makes you think she hasn't tried to help her daughter? She stated clearly that they have had multiple attempts trying to "save" her to no avail. Her daughter is 22 years old. She cannot be hospitalized by her mother. She would have to go willingly at this point. You have not walked in this woman's shoes - perhaps you should refrain from judgeing her so harshly until you have. I'm not in disagreement that she should seek therapy for herself. Op I hope you do! Sometimes you have to let the people you love go if they are refusing help to maintain your own sanity and stop enabling the behavior to continue.

[laydeediana]

I can feel your heart breaking.  I have a 19 year old daughter that I have given her savings bonds and told to leave last Saturday with the realization that she is a sociopath, and the lying and stealing will not stop.  She had no regard for the other members of the family and their things.

She too was diagnosed with bi-polar.  She also would not take her medication unless I watched her as she took it.  Which made it impossible for me to go away on vacations, or for her to go away on school trips. I continued to watch her until she left home last year to live with an Aunt.  That lasted 3 weeks, until she was thrown out for sneaking out in the middle of the night.  She came back and I took her.   She has dropped out of her senior year in high school for the second time.  This time, she has 15 missing days, when I found out.  The school had not been calling me because of her age.  She had been lying to me the whole time.  She has never shown any remorse for lying, stealing or any other misery she has caused our family.

We have had the best help for her, psychiatrists, counselors, school counselors, teachers, and church ministers.  Most of them agree, that it is now time for tough love.  You cannot MAKE a person continue to take their medication.  They must take responsibility for themselves.

Our other two children are so relieved to see her go.  They are tired of being manipulated by her and her outbursts.  They are just regular kids,  One is graduating with his associates in criminal justice and has been working parttime for 2 years.  The other is a freshman in high school  in honors.  They were all raised the same way.

Everyday is a struggle for me emotionally.  Somedays I break down and cry.  I pray for myself and her.  But, I try to keep telling myself that what I did was right... and that having her stay NOTHING would have changed.  Pray.  Read uplifting books.  Go for walks!  Being outdoors helps your mind clear...it does for me and it always makes me feel a little better.  Best thoughts are being sent to you.

[tasmom]

Oh my goodness, Beatrice.  I FEEL your pain. I am so glad to have found someone with a child such as you have described. I have been searching and trying to find support for myself in dealing with a son who has been diagnosed bipolar and is a sociopath. He too has tried 3 or 4 times to take his own life; I say 3 or 4 times, because he is pathological lier it is difficult to tell the truth from fiction, except for  the 2 times he was found by others. He has been  held in psychiatric hospitals 2 times since March due to the attempts. He is a 27 year old adult and with Hepa privacy laws I have been "almost" cut out of his recovery process, and with sociopathic behaviors he manipulates every aspect without truthfullness. I feel so many emotions and feel so very fatigued from it all! You are now not alone, we are not alone, we have each other. Hopefully we can share and help each other through this long difficult journey our children and ourselves are faced with. Hold up and try to keep strong, there are others who need you.

[Annie Mac]

Oh Beatrice, I am so sorry you are going through this. I have been through something similar with my oldest. My daughter, thankfully, outgrew the horrible behaviours, but I can completely, completely relate to the heartbreak and guilt you are feeling. It's not your fault. It really, really isn't. The idea that the parents (especially the mom) are entirely responsible for their children's outcomes is such a destructive myth. It's not an input-output equation. There comes a point when you just have to treat your child like you would treat any other adult who was behaving that way. I don't have any words of sage advice. It sucks to be in the position you are in, but you are not alone. 

[tasmom]

You have good advice to give. We, those who have these kinds of children, need to support and be there for each other. I have been trying to deal, but the emotional roller coaster ride has worn me down. I am a strong woman, but this is the most difficult time in my life and I have been through some difficult times. I have been searching for support groups and have come up with blanks, with the exception of founding this forum. NAMI seems to be filled with parents of younger children. I am dealing with a 27 year old adult child who can and is making his own terrible decisions about his care and progress. As his mother my feelings are different than those of his father, stepmother, stepfather and siblings. My heart is breaking for him and my family and I don't feel there is any thing I can do about it, except stay strong for them. I have a coworker whose 27 year old son took his life last summer, she and I have had some talks. Our stories are similar but different. My son is not only bipolar and sociopathic, he is an addict of heroin, marijuana and alcohol and lord knows what else. He has attempted suicide a minimum of 2 times since March, has been hospiatlized twice. He came out the first time the day of my mothers funeral. I am tired and need ears and shoulders. Thanks for listening. tasmom

[Katherine11]

Thank god there are others out there. Its all about how to help the bipolar child and it seems like a maze of stress and treading on egg shells whilst we the mothers slowly lose our minds. I have three other children and my bipolar child is now 21. What about the kids still in the family, what about their welfare, their right to have a sane mother. That some money and time might be left in the pot for them. School after school after school. Money and money and money is all we have done. Not to mention the tears and the pain. I now suffer from depression because the absolute feeling of helplessness and despair for my other children and the panic attacks that wont go away. I mean its like whats next. You never know what she will throw at you next. The lies, the destructive lies. Oh my mother cuts me, was one. So in come social services, the nurse, etc etc. Of course it was found she hadnt a mark on her. But then the principal said take her to an institution she is frightening the other children. She was 8 then. Now she has gone to her biological father, a man who has never paid maintenaince, had his parental rights removed over a decade ago and who raped me when i was 14. You see i have put my foot down and said you dont come back here until you seek help and take your medication because the rest of us have a right to life aswell.So she is tearing the world apart in a huge tantrum that is destroying me. Of course the new father is wonderful and i receive emails about how i lied and im having trouble coping.I have been married for nearly twenty years now and my life would be so wonderful if she would just dam stop it.I have a wonderful husband and thre fantastic sons, all extraordinary people, and i am embarassed that i brought this person into the family unit.SHe has given her biological father all of my contact details and i am reduced to square one after twenty years of growth and a distant memory of pain to not be able to slepp and nightmares again. So what about the family, what about the other children, how bad does it have to get before we do whats right by them. I have done the specialist patrol, the home schooling, given up my career to dedicate to her. The lies, the stealing, the destruction. The sexual promiscuity. What about us. Everywhere else i read tough love isnt good for the bipolar person. Well it comes a time when we must protect ourselves and we must protect our other children.I know she needs help but at her age of course i would be powerless to do anything but endure her. SHe will cut herself or do things like she has done now to make me do her bidding.But not this time. Im afraid im past some point where i have anything left for her. I have to be there for my other children, my husband and for myself. So maybe tough love is the wrong word. But if you have the knowledge of what this person is and you allow them to continue to hurt us and our other children isnt that wrong?

[southy]

hi beatrice,

i have the same problem, my daughter is 23, just tried to commit suicide, and only because she has a 18mth old son, who has been placed in foster care,

has to go to a psychologist and a psychiatrist,  but from what i have read i don't feel hopeful, and like you it breaks my heart,  and to deal with it i think i will have to seek help myself.

it feels like she has died, because i know i will never have a proper relationship with her.  Oh wouldn't it be wonderful to have a normal loving daughter.

I now realize she inherited it from her father.

i have just got back from seeing her, as we live in different cities, She asked me to come down and go to the child services meeting with her, and she was also feeling like committing suicide.       I left early because, she just left me high and dry while she went out and played, after i had been to the meeting and she had got what she wanted.

got to go beatrice am pretty tired,  Let me know how you get on, maybe we can help each other,

Love southy

[TornN2]

 Hello everyone. I am new here. I also have a sociopath daughter, she is 28 now. I have 3 daughters and she is my middle child. I recently had to cut  her out of my life. It was so hard for me as a mother. But for my own sanity I did. It has been a roller coaster ride that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. To love someone so much, and to get nothing in return but heart ache. Most people have no idea how vile her lies can be. The pain she causes just everything. It tears me up so. I am glad that I found this forum and hope to connect to other mothers with the same issues. 

thanks for being here everyone

Torn

[Imakcerka]

Just so you all know, these people can heal.  When they decide to heal.  They create chaos where ever they go.  And it's sad.  For them and for their families.   Stepping out of their lives when you need a break is the best thing to do.  You need to get away and watch.  Know her patterns understand what and why she is doing what she is doing.  This will help you know what to do the next time you are involved.  This is mania... this can go on for weeks, months or years. 

Drug use is normal in people with a mental illness.  Don't hound the drug use.  Leave that alone for now.  They use it to make themselves feel better.  Not taking her meds... that's because she hates how it dulls her.  Imagine bright lights and overwhelming feelings.  Now turn it all off... now what?  Some people think the meds alone will fix the problem.  It won't.  Some of them make them worse and some of them make them unbearable.  Believe it or not, she does know she hurts you all.  And she can't stop it.  She doesn't have that ability.  She's not a monster.  You're not a bad mother. 

[tracyserenity]

I just wanted to say that my 19 year old son is currently in the psych ward and though this is his first trip there, he has had drug issues and anger issues most of his life. I am thankful that I now know why. Is it easy, no, but knowing does help. I have just been clear and straight-forward with him about everything. He knows that he cannot live with me any longer due to past behaviors, so he doesn't even go there. Once I drew that line, our relationship actually got better, at least for now. I have had to kick him out and we have had all the same issues that you have, but making sure to keep myself healthy has been the best thing for him. Had I given in to the stress and the ups and downs, I would not have been strong enough for him when he was finally ready to get help. We do what we have to do. They are adults, mental illness or not. We show our love not by enabling them, but by standing firm and holding them accountable to their choices and actions. Will we fight again, oh, I am certain we will, but that doesn't mean he doesn't love me or that he is evil, it just means that it is a struggle for him, one that I can't fix. I am glad he is choosing to get help, but I've been praying and waiting for him to do so for 6 years...they have to want it for themselves. We cannot force anything on them. Love them from afar with prayer and understanding and when they do decide to get help, be there for support. In the meantime, take care of yourself and your family.

God bless you!

[TornN2]

Hello everyone, thanks for your input. I wish that this forum was more active. I just feel alone. My daughter just had her 5th child. She is sometimes with her husband and sometimes with her boyfriend. MY newest grand baby belongs to the boyfriend and my daughter. He was born addicted to pain meds. But she had a script for it from her doctor so she didn't have to get treatment or in trouble for it. Poor lil guy only weighed 3 lbs. It breaks my heart but my hands are tied. So I just keep praying and watching from a far. 

thanks for listening to me ramble.

Btw Tracy, I feel your pain, hoping that some how we can all help each other.

hugs Torn

[Three~Little~Birds]

Hugs to you all. You are all living one of my worst nightmares.  I wish that I had some advice for you.  Take care of yourselves.

peace to you

[kmamma]

I don't think any person is born with a mental disorder, especially if they're born physically healthy. I do think the environment has a big effect, but that's not only limited to the home. School environment and circle of friends are also huge factors that play in during childhood.  

Then there are physical causes, especially nutritional. When I studied nutrition I was amazed at seeing a comparison of the brain scans of a diabetic person vs a bipolar person--the scans looked identical. If you consider it, it really isn't so strange. The up and downs of blood sugar regulation due to eating high sugar foods, feel much like being manic one second and depressed the other. 

Some kids have a higher sensitivity to environmental factors in the home/school/community, as well as to nutritional imbalances. You can't rule non-genetic causes only because the person's siblings don't have the same problem (eating the same diet, growing up in the same house, going to the same school). Someone might have a genetic predisposition, but no one is born a sociopath. A word that shouldn't be used as it puts all the blame on the sick person. Someone who got sick at an early age, did not have the opportunity to be molded into a healthy human being, with all that comes with that (moral faculties etc). Blaming them for not making the right decisions, is like blaming a fish for not being able to breathe out of water. 

As for finding help, you could try and look outside of conventional medicine. Being the Mothering forums, I can only imagine there are lots of people on this board who have found relief from mental health problems using alternative methods. 

[DoubleDouble]

Originally Posted by kmamma 

I don't think any person is born with a mental disorder, especially if they're born physically healthy. I do think the environment has a big effect, but that's not only limited to the home. School environment and circle of friends are also huge factors that play in during childhood.  

Then there are physical causes, especially nutritional. When I studied nutrition I was amazed at seeing a comparison of the brain scans of a diabetic person vs a bipolar person--the scans looked identical. If you consider it, it really isn't so strange. The up and downs of blood sugar regulation due to eating high sugar foods, feel much like being manic one second and depressed the other. 

Some kids have a higher sensitivity to environmental factors in the home/school/community, as well as to nutritional imbalances. You can't rule non-genetic causes only because the person's siblings don't have the same problem (eating the same diet, growing up in the same house, going to the same school). Someone might have a genetic predisposition, but no one is born a sociopath. A word that shouldn't be used as it puts all the blame on the sick person. Someone who got sick at an early age, did not have the opportunity to be molded into a healthy human being, with all that comes with that (moral faculties etc). Blaming them for not making the right decisions, is like blaming a fish for not being able to breathe out of water. 

As for finding help, you could try and look outside of conventional medicine. Being the Mothering forums, I can only imagine there are lots of people on this board who have found relief from mental health problems using alternative methods. 

In other words, take some vitamins and drink organic mineral water and breathe unicorn farts. It's magical and is the solution to everything in life - will treat bipolar disorder and brain cancer, and will do your laundry too.

Way to go to guilt the mother.

[Mom31]

Originally Posted by kmamma 

I don't think any person is born with a mental disorder, especially if they're born physically healthy. I do think the environment has a big effect, but that's not only limited to the home. School environment and circle of friends are also huge factors that play in during childhood.  

Then there are physical causes, especially nutritional. When I studied nutrition I was amazed at seeing a comparison of the brain scans of a diabetic person vs a bipolar person--the scans looked identical. If you consider it, it really isn't so strange. The up and downs of blood sugar regulation due to eating high sugar foods, feel much like being manic one second and depressed the other. 

Some kids have a higher sensitivity to environmental factors in the home/school/community, as well as to nutritional imbalances. You can't rule non-genetic causes only because the person's siblings don't have the same problem (eating the same diet, growing up in the same house, going to the same school). Someone might have a genetic predisposition, but no one is born a sociopath. A word that shouldn't be used as it puts all the blame on the sick person. Someone who got sick at an early age, did not have the opportunity to be molded into a healthy human being, with all that comes with that (moral faculties etc). Blaming them for not making the right decisions, is like blaming a fish for not being able to breathe out of water. 

As for finding help, you could try and look outside of conventional medicine. Being the Mothering forums, I can only imagine there are lots of people on this board who have found relief from mental health problems using alternative methods. 

WOW.