Transitioning to their own beds- or 3 in the bed?

[JennyKochhar]

I just found out I'm pregnant with my 3rd child. The first two are 14 months apart (DD:3 and DS:2). Right now, they both sleep with me in a king sized bed. DH sleeps in another room because he can't sleep well with any sort of movement/noise in the room. This has been working for us, but number 3 (Bean) throws a wrench into things. I need to figure out what we're going to do. As it is, I'm already causing the kids to wake when I get up to pee twice in the night. DS still night nurses, and is recently going through something developmental that has him waking 3 or 4 times a night and sleeping very lightly so he always notices and cries when I get out of bed. DD has always been a high needs kid who needs to be touching someone to go to/stay asleep. As long as I am in bed, she sleeps great now, 10-12 hours with no fussing. I've tried moving her to her own bed, but she is super restless and wakes multiple times, cries (ok, screaming tantrum is more like it) for me to be with her.

I'm not exactly sure how I'd manage with me and 3 kids in the bed, but I am CLUELESS as to how to 1. Nightwean DS,  

2. Get both to sleep in their own beds, 3. Manage night time peeing without waking the kids...

Any advice is welcome, but should assume I am doing this without help from DH. He is a wonderful dad, but utterly useless for night time parenting.

Oh, and the only non-negotiable for me is that Bean (due in December) sleeps next to me and not next to a sibling.

[virtualee]

Jenny, time to say "no" - no more nursing and time to move in own beds. It's okay; you're only human. Geez! Doing all the nightime parenting by yourself. Yikes! If you're empathetic, but firm in your decision, it should work. But you will get protest; major protest. Know that it will end eventually; hang in there, even through all the feelings of guilt. Doing over 3 days that your husband will be around to take care of kids in morning so you can sleep in.

I would wean first, personally. But this is a judgment call. Some people prefer to nurse child to sleep in new bed. I think that sets a bad precedent.

Here's a helpful link.

http://drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html 

For me, I said "no more nu nu." followed by "I know it's hard." Statements like that. Back rubbing, soothing voice etc.

As far as the transition from co-sleeping, I talked it up for a while, told stories about DS favorite stuffed animals going through the same transitioning and practice going back to sleep (while co-sleeping) without the "snuggle". I talked about how he was a big boy and he could do it. He would ask me if I was going to sleep there to,o and I was honest - No, but momma is close by.

I started on a night when we got a lot of exercise, outdoor play so going down hard.

I started with oldest first because I didn't want protest to affect others. Once eldest got it down, I moved my 2nd.

Don't do this until YOU are ready to do it, and make a full commitment. Otherwise, the kids will sense the waivering.

[kimkim]

How do you feel about them sharing a bed? I have no experience but have heard it can make the transition better...

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[JennyKochhar]

Virtualee, I was afraid that was what people would say. I am so dreading having to do that. My oldest is a very cuddly sleeper, and super sensitive to any sort of change. I bet it would take more like a week for us to get it done. The thing is, I can get them to start out in their own beds, but they always slip into my bed on their first wakening. Then if I tried to move her, she'd scream and cry this uber sad cry and wake everyone in our tiny house up. I guess I'm just not up for that yet.

Kim, I'd be happy to have them share a bed, but my son wouldn't have it. He can't stand it if his sister gets anywhere near him while they're sleeping. In fact, except when he's nursing, he doesn't even snuggle up to me. Maybe that's what I need to do- Night wean him and move him to his own bed. I don't think he'd complain too much since he doesn't like to snuggle while he sleeps. Then, maybe my daughter would see him in his own bed and decide on her own to sleep in her bed. Ha! A girl can dream, right?

[virtualee]

Jenny, I felt the same way about my eldest, super cuddly; took forever to get this kid from not sleeping literally on top of me. But let me tell you that once you get through the rough period, you might be surprised how proud your kids will be of accomplishing the sleeping on their own. They will move on, I promise; and they won't be wounded for life; they will likely forget about it in a few days/weeks, as long as you are committed to the process. Trust that you have good attachment, a good foundation for healthy sleep and that your kids after having 2-3 years of nice sleep, will eventually prefer that. (FYI My kids are 14 months a part.) I'm going to give you a few other recommendations.

***If you're eldest is going to wake up the whole house, so be it.She still needs to sleep in her own bed, you still love her and you "understand how hard this is". (If DH doesn't like it, he can help you then. BTW my DH was great with transitioning; I highly recommend getting him involved in anyway possible. This will be very hard and frustrating to do on your own.)   First night: My DS cried for an hour straight, mourning the loss of the co-sleeping the first night (I was there the whole time empathizing.) The next night he whimpered for a few minutes but went to sleep. A few days later he woke up once in middle of night and went back down with  help. On his own in about 2 weeks and prefers big boy bed.

1. When they get out of their beds in the middle of the night, hug them, tell them you love them, but they need to sleep in the "big kid" bed now. Tell them they can do it and that momma is right down the hall or whatever. If they crawl into bed, every time; they'll do that just as long as you let them. They keep crawling out; keep putting them back in.

2. Let your voice and your confidence in your kids be their new comfort. It's not constant physical contact, but it is still comfort. If you physically hold them in their new beds, they'll likely wake-up every time you try to move out. On whatever time frame works for you and your kids, see yourself moving physically further away, but still providing that comfort and reassurance "I know this is challenging, but you can do it. Time for sleep. Momma is here."

3. Look seriously about your response to the situation. Do you waiver when there is a major upset? Do you get anxious and overwhelmed when your kids get very upset? Remember, setting limits to the co-sleeping is normal, healthy and age appropriate at this stage, if this is what you need.

4. Allow for early morning family bed time in the beginning and give major props for accomishing the "big kid bed". Even after the first night DS was in the bed, when we complimented him first thing in the morning, he got this wry smile on his face knowing that he accomplished something big. POSITVE REINFORCEMENT - use it.

5. Make the big kid bed special, as special as family bed.

6. No need to do the same thing for nap; start with night time sleeping. Napping can be co-sleeping, if it works.

Good Luck! You'll be happier and more comfortable once this over; you'll probably wished you did it sooner....

Keep us posted!

[canadiangranola]

Just wanted to chime in. I am a mama who has three in her bed. Super high needs first babe wasn't ready to leave (and was still nursing to sleep) when dd was born. He wasn't ready to leave, and we didn't force it. I'm due with number four in November, and still plan on cosleeping with all of my kiddos until they are ready to sleep in their own rooms. Personally, I think dd (5) will be ready before ds (7), who still lies beside me and likes physical contact to fall asleep. 

I won't lie, there are times that it has been draining to be the primary nighttime caregiver, but I choose that for myself b/c it makes my kids feel safe and sleep easily, without crisis or tears. 

We have added beds through the years, and now have a combo of a single, a queen and a double (with a loft bed above the single) where dh sleeps. We love falling asleep together, and nighttimes are peaceful and cozy. DH is good about taking whoever wakes earliest in the morning so mama can get a few extra zzz's here and there. 

Your little ones are still very young. It's okay to keep them in your bed if that is what you want, but it's also okay to consider options or shift things around. Maybe one of them could sleep on a single mattress on the floor (this would solve the crashing into each other problem, and still allow you to have baby on one side. 

About the night weaning, which might help your son sleep through, although I have to say that I think it's pretty common for kids who are extended nursed to wake frequently to nurse at different stages in their development. If you really want to night wean, I can tell you what has worked for all three of mine (although number three pretty much did it herself when i got pregnant with number four)... ..

If your son is developmentally ready to night wean, he will do so within a few nights without too much stress. I would honestly still nurse him to sleep, but try to eliminate middle of the night feedings first. When he wakes in the night, tell him that milkies (or whatever word you use) are sleeping. He can nurse when the sun wakes up. Offer him water, cuddle him, sing to him, whatever will work to sleep without nursing. Within a few nights, if he's ready he will most likely stop waking so often or he will accept a sippy cup of water instead. I found that if my kids weren't ready, they were really inconsolable when I refused to nurse. If this happened, I waited a couple months and tried again. You know your son. You will be able to sense if he is really upset or just whining a bit. With my son, we tried at 18 months and he was devastated. We tried again a few months later (when i was pregnant and really desperate) and he went from waking 6 times a night to nurse to waking at 5 to nurse within a few days. That 5 am nursing was essential for him, give it and he would sleep till 8, skip it and he was up for the day. I chose to keep it :). 

I think it's key to have an alternative in case he's really thirsty, and also to reassure him that he will have milk again soon. Fortunately, you're still months away from having number three, so you have time on your side. No need to make a traumatic transition. :)

Our thought around here has always been that whatever gets everyone the most sleep is the way we roll, although admittedly, sometimes the best mama sleep happens on weekend mornings.

Do you share blankets with your kids? I wonder if having separate blankets would help with the waking them up when you pee thing? I can totally empathize with the middle of the night pregnant peeing thing. It sucks. 

Anyway, just wanted to respond with a different opinion than the "get them out now!" opinion, because as a mama of a high needs baby, I truly believe that trying to force a transition that a child isn't ready for can cause more negative than benefit. Sometimes a good reworking of the situation is all it takes :).

[meesh933]

I agree with canadiangranola that trying to force them out may make things harder on you in the long run. I have a 4 yo, a 14 mo and I'm due in November. I do not foresee my high-needs 4 yo being ready to move out of the family bed by then, honestly, so we'll probably have 3 in the bed. She moved into her own room for a few weeks a while back, of her own accord, and it was horrible. She started waking at night again, and I had to take the baby in there with me, which woke him up, and then I had to get both of them back to sleep. It was miserable for everyone.

We have an arrangement that we call "megabed" - a queen size bed and a full size bed pushed up against each other. (No bed frame, just on the box springs on the floor.) I've found that if one kid sleeps with me in the queen and one with DH in the full, we get a lot more sleep. Whoever is with DH usually ends up back with me, but DS will drastically cut down on or eliminate his frequent night nursing if he's snuggled with Daddy instead of me. I'm hoping to transition DD into bed with DH full time by the time the baby comes. I can still reach out and touch her, but she can't roll up onto the other bed because there is about a 3" height difference. So that would put me in a position to reach out and touch all three kids, without having either of the big kids in a place where they can roll near the baby.

I also wanted to add that night weaning may not be the ticket to STTN with your youngest. My DD self-weaned during my last pregnancy, but she still woke at night until she was well over 3. And it was harder to get her back to sleep for a while, too. So you could end up going through all the hassle of night weaning, only to still be up 5 or 6 times at night. 

[canadiangranola]

meesh933 : good point on the night weaning. My dd (almost three)is night weaned, on her own, but still wakes up frequently from bad dreams through the night. Sometimes nightweaning just takes away your easiest way to get your kid back to sleep