How much supervision is enough? - Page 8

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by lightinmyhands 

ground transportation is a luxury and not a necessity as many, many families do not own or have access to vehicles and I myself was carless for 3 years and we walked/biked everywhere we needed to go and I felt that to be a much safer option for my family than riding in a car, though owning and using the car is mighty convenient.

I assume you've never lived in an area like I live... There are no stores within walking distance, biking is not an option because the stores are all on a big highway (not remotely safe for bikes, I tried once!), and there are no buses or anything... Having a car IS a necessity for me, if I ever want to get to work or buy food or clothes (nevermind any leisure activities that involve leaving the house)... Most people work 20-60 or more minutes (by car) from their home... Even if you want to go for a hike here, you need to get in the car and drive to the hiking trails! Maybe in many areas a car is a luxury, but here it truly is necessary.

[lightinmyhands]

APT.... I did go back and say in my last post that I've had a hectic year and after some recalculations and thinking on where we were located at different times, turns out I was off on the age and she was closer to 18 months...and not completely alone, bathing with her older sister with my ears constantly on them and my eyes checking with much frequency.  I do know that in spite of being advanced for her age she is still young and needs a lot of supervision.  I have heard of lots of horrible things happening to kids that I would never, ever want to occur in my home.... and I do take many precautions to safeguard against dangers, even the most obscure.  For instance, to jump in on this beach/life jacket conversation, I don't take my two girls to the beach alone, I feel as if the ocean is just too big and too crowded for me to have the only pair of eyes on my them, even with lifeguards, so my DH and I take the girls to the beach together.  I also don't allow them to play with water unsupervised when they play outside together as there are buckets and kids do sometimes drown in them, but in my home, with my parenting ears on them at all times and me checking on them constantly, I feel my girls are fine in a bathtub for a few minutes together while I let the dogs outside to potty or clear the dinner table (which in my house is literally just a few paces from the bathroom).

P.S.  I don't think the glass castle is at all relevant as it seems like the parents in that book were suffering from some extreme mental imbalance, all the way down to the theft and the heavy drinking.  

[lalaland42]

Originally Posted by lightinmyhands 

APT.... I did go back and say in my last post that I've had a hectic year and after some recalculations and thinking on where we were located at different times, turns out I was off on the age and she was closer to 18 months...and not completely alone, bathing with her older sister with my ears constantly on them and my eyes checking with much frequency.  I do know that in spite of being advanced for her age she is still young and needs a lot of supervision.  I have heard of lots of horrible things happening to kids that I would never, ever want to occur in my home.... and I do take many precautions to safeguard against dangers, even the most obscure.  For instance, to jump in on this beach/life jacket conversation, I don't take my two girls to the beach alone, I feel as if the ocean is just too big and too crowded for me to have the only pair of eyes on my them, even with lifeguards, so my DH and I take the girls to the beach together.  I also don't allow them to play with water unsupervised when they play outside together as there are buckets and kids do sometimes drown in them, but in my home, with my parenting ears on them at all times and me checking on them constantly, I feel my girls are fine in a bathtub for a few minutes together while I let the dogs outside to potty or clear the dinner table (which in my house is literally just a few paces from the bathroom).

P.S.  I don't think the glass castle is at all relevant as it seems like the parents in that book were suffering from some extreme mental imbalance, all the way down to the theft and the heavy drinking.  

A member here almost lost her DD a couple of years ago because she did the exact same thing. She came back to the tub after letting her dog out and her DD was face down with her big brother still in the tub. After a while in the hospital, she came home and didn't seem to be suffering from long term effects but still. The baby almost died.

[AKislandgirl]

Weather your child was 14 months or 18months makes NO DIFFERENCE! It is still extremely dangerous and neglectful.

[AllyRae]

LOL, I live 25 minutes (driving) from the nearest city.  I live 20 minutes from the grocery store that carries the allergen free foods we have to eat.  We are an hour (driving) from the kids' pediatrician, and there is not a pediatrician in our town (not even a wal-mart or target or anything in our town).  We are 20 minutes from my son's school, a school with no bus transportation.  DH is 30 minutes from work.  The nearest hospital is a 20 minute drive.  We live in a town with no access to public transportation.  I'd say driving is not just a luxury unless you live in an area that, at minimum, has a bus system.  Oh, and our very rural subdivision has deed restrictions against horses, so we can't just up and ride our horse into town... ;-)

ETA:  And yeah, we're talking about babies, and not adults.  Had you been an infant in an infant carseat, the car accident might not have been as serious.  Teens can slip and hurt themselves in the tub too (and some have even died).  But those are freak accidents that are not the result of someone's lack of supervision (assuming you were wearing a seat belt).  We're talking about the risks that happen when the infant isn't properly restrained in the car or supervised in the bath.  Accidents can happen on a bike too, so it's not like you're risk free on the bike obviously.  But a freak accident when you took proper precautions is much rarer than an accident that happens when someone's not taking appropriate precautions.
 

Originally Posted by lightinmyhands 

YoungFrankenstein, I understand how my first post sounded, sometimes I don't proofread before posting.  No, I am not leaving her completely alone in the tub while I'm off tending to other things.  She almost always bathes with her 7 year old sister, and when she's alone in the tub I will only leave to get pj's or grab a towel or let the dogs outside to potty... and my house is not big enough for me to ever get very far no matter what other stuff I may be tending for a moment, so I am always within earshot and will run to any sounds of splashing or quiet.  I also did some calculating of time as our lives have been hectic since my youngest was born and we have moved several times and I was wrong on the age, it was closer to 18 months before I felt comfortable leaving her for a few moments and she was always in the tub with her sister then. I do appreciate you recognizing what I was trying to say...and not so immediately jumping to paranoid conclusions.  And Ally...ground transportation is a luxury and not a necessity as many, many families do not own or have access to vehicles and I myself was carless for 3 years and we walked/biked everywhere we needed to go and I felt that to be a much safer option for my family than riding in a car, though owning and using the car is mighty convenient.  And I understand that car accidents aren't always fatal, but I was in an auto accident as a teenager that left me in a coma for a few days and head injured and hospitalized for a month and recovering for many months to come.  I learned in that in an accident  death is not the only awful thing that can happen and I would never want either of my girls to have that experience or anything similar and any time we enter a vehicle we are taking that risk. 

[artekah]

Hi everyone, I'm the OP. Wow, this thread sure took an interesting turn!

I just wanted to thank you all for your responses and let you know I'm reading them all, albeit slowly from my phone.

Interesting that people jumped straight to my *dog* as being a risk factor, as that's something I hadn't even considered! With my particular toddler, my particular dog and situation I definitely feel the dog's presence in my back yard only made things safer, because I know he would instantly alert me to any danger, be it a person walking into the yard, another animal, or what have you.

My dog has never bitten or even threatened to bite any person or any other dog, ever. He barks a lot but otherwise is almost comically timid. The only time I can imagine him biting would be (possibly) to defend my DS. He's not an old or sick dog (he's 2) and he's ridiculously tolerant. On top of that my DS is really good about not pestering him, especially when he's outside because he's busy exploring!

So yes, while I acknowledge the possibility of him biting my DS, I'd say it's about as likely as a random person on the street biting my DS. Or even less likely, really.

However, what a PP mentioned about the danger of "friendly fire" did give me food for thought. I can see how it would be possible for the dog to knock him over or something while playing. So I am going to be cautious about that.

I'm not in denial about dogs. I was bitten by a dog as a child. I used to have a dog who, while she was a total sweetie, I would *never* trust her alone with a small child. I do think I know my child and dog well enough to trust the situation, especially when I'm within earshot, can walk to the window and see them at any time, and could get out the door literally within 30 seconds! Thanks to those who gave me the benefit of the doubt!

It sounds like aside from the dog issue, most people think sending DS out to play is fine, but obviously it would depend on the particular child and the setup of the particular yard, which is pretty much what I was thinking. So thanks!

PS. As for the gate latch issue, not really a concern for us at this point. Our guy would have to be at least a foot taller to reach that, and it's always locked, and he doesn't show any interest in latches yet. For him it's more about finding cool rocks to show me.

[Ldavis24]

good for you op...our dog did totally send dd flying once when she was chasing a ball but that was us throwing her a ball and dd ran in the way... when it is just dog and dd it is as you said...dd is exploring, the dog laying in the sun catching some rays, very mellow.

[Thandiwe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightinmyhands 

but driving your child around in a car is also a very risky activity and I don't doubt that most if not all of you own vehicles and probably cell phones.... who talks on the phone while driving with their kids in the car? sends a text message? navigates using googlemaps?  

I own a vehicle and a cell phone.  There have been times I have talked on the phone while traveling (extremely dangerous), but I don't ever EVER text while driving (also extremely dangerous).

But here's the problem with your counter-attack and the biggest difference with the bath tub discussion: No one is sitting here saying it is safe to talk or text on the phone and drive. 

[lightinmyhands]

talking and texting while driving was only one of my points.... car accidents happen all the time, even without the involvement of cell phones.  I was involved in a pretty serious car accident as a teenager myself, and know first hand the dangers of motor vehicles.  I choose to drive my children places in a car because it is ultimately very convenient, this is a choice I as a parent make after weighing the potential risks/benefits.  just food for thought... 

Originally Posted by Thandiwe 

Quote:

I own a vehicle and a cell phone.  There have been times I have talked on the phone while traveling (extremely dangerous), but I don't ever EVER text while driving (also extremely dangerous).

But here's the problem with your counter-attack and the biggest difference with the bath tub discussion: No one is sitting here saying it is safe to talk or text on the phone and drive. 

[lemonapple]

As to the original question, Absolutely. I wish we had the set-up you described! We move constantly, and haven't had a yard in over a year...what I wouldn't give!! When I was growing up, we always had a huge fenced in backyard, and my brother and I spent nearly all our waking ours outside without our parents..some of the best memories of my childhood! 

As to the bathtub issue...I'm sort of surprised at the responses.

I DO think that cars are more dangerous than leaving a child unattended for a minute or two in the bathtub. I also DO think that too many people placate themselves on the danger of cars by convincing themselves that they MUST live in their current residence that seemingly REQUIRES the use of a car. For the record, we are car-less and will probably remain so for the next few years. Because we are aware of this, we choose to live in areas where public transportation will meet our needs as a family. I realize that not everyone can up and leave their homes and jobs, but that doesn't make driving in a car Safer than it actually is. 

Now, back to the bathtub. What about the children...young children...who have been taught water safety? What about the toddlers who know to hold their breath under water...and demonstrate said skill often? What about the young children who know how to SWIM? And, really, just what about the children who are just plain CAPABLE of bathing for a few minutes by themselves while a parent or caretaker keeps an ear out...or checks in every few minutes? 

When we lived in Hawaii, there were four young toddlers...all around the age of 2 who knew how to swim. They wore floaties, and they went into the water as soon as they arrived at the beach...even though that meant they swam without their parents for a few minutes...and I mean, far out in the water. It was Lanikai beach...very calm...there parents were able swimmers and watching the entire time. The children knew water safety skills. I would imagine that those children were capable of bathing unattended in their bathtubs. And..probably capable well before the age of 2. 

My son learned a bit of swimming skill from these children and their parents, and would often 'swim' far out in the water wearing just floaties while I swam nearby. i felt no danger in those instances. 

My son (nearly 2.5) bathes most often wth my husband. But, infrequently, he asks to bath ALONE. I don't have a single bit of reservation about it. I know the capabilities of my child,and I trust him in the bath. I do NOT think that the bath is any more of a danger to him than a shower is to me...or a bath in a larger tub. To tell the truth, I've allowed him to bathe alone for a very long time exactly because I DO know my child and the bathtub is really the least of my concerns. 

Idk, you can't just apply a blanket age restriction to things. It's a major problem in our society, and I hate to see it. You can't possibly imagine a child under the age of 4 (as I think has been mentioned) bathing by themselves? Seriously? All it takes is ONE child who is able to do that safely for the entire age thing to just not apply. It's a thing to be decided family by family child by child. And, to get hysterical about it...and as judgemental as has been illustrated by this thread is awful!