Waldorf ?? (LuxPeretua or others) -- delayed seat time?

[Momma Aimee]

I have read only a little about Waldorf , but my BFF had her son in a Waldorf  school for 2 or 3 years in Pre-K (started in momma and me then did a class alone) before they moved to China.

I understand one 'basic' of Waldorf  is dealying seat time, fine motor stuff like writting and so on, till is it 7 or 8 --

I instinctive agree with that for my very boy boys -- and am following the pratice to some extent.

I wondered if anyone could point me to some reading specifically about the delay in formal education and the logic or science behind it -- I'd apperciapte it.

Aimee

[pigpokey]

The Waldorf delay has to do with the fact that, according to Steiner's spirituality Anthroposophy, the soul is at high risk of not incarnating properly if kids leave the dream world / learn to read before the milk teeth are falling out.  Or something like that. 

Go here:  http://www.openwaldorf.com/ 

[LuxPerpetua]

As with most things in Waldorf, I have found some things to be true for us and some things not.  I love living 3-dimensionally, for learning to be holistic, internalizing the value of everyday practical work, learning crafting skills, experiencing life on a deeper level.  I will say, though, that with my dd (nearly 5.5) that I follow her lead because, honestly, how can one stand against a tidal wave? LOL.  Dd is definitely doing her own seatwork at this age, but it's driven by her, not me.  Dd loves to draw, write, and make books for people.  We get a few puzzle books in the mail (Have you tried out Puzzle Buzz?  Take a look at it if you haven't heard of it.  We love it for car trips and such.)  I have known other kids her age who would absolutely rebel against this and it would be detrimental to them--they need to be running, jumping, banging trucks together, etc.  Not that dd doesn't do this kind of stuff, but she balances it out in her own way.  I'd recommend staying away from Waldorf resources because Waldorf carries its own set of ideological baggage and look more into the secular aspects of delaying academics.  I would recommend Better Late Than Early and even John Holt's unschooling books for this, like Teach Your Own.

http://www.excellenceineducation.com/better_late_than_early.php 

My rule of thumb is that if dd shows any signs of stress (fussing, being contrary, acting out, etc.) then she's not ready for whatever we're doing.  Regardless of any educational philosophy I move on.  If she inititates it, however, then I let her run with it at her own pace.  This has always worked for us.  However, with that said, I have put up with a lot of verbal baggage from other parents who felt that I should be more forceful in how I parent.  That has given me grief, but I have never regretted just following her lead and doing my own gentle prompting every now and then.  I'm not a full unschooler but I have learned a great deal from them and incorporate a lot of that philosophy in a Waldorf-inspired way.

Blessings, Aimee!

[Momma Aimee]

Thansk, both of you.

I have the Moore's Better late the Early (must go fine) and I need to look at some Holt.  I am stuggleing in the "he is 5 isn't he in kindy..." and the fact he has an IEP for speech so is in the 'school synic' -- also i admit, i feel it internally -- he is 5.5 and really NOT taking off academically on his ovn; i feel a bit let dovn by all the "leave them alone and they'll do it on their ovn" out there.

but on the other hand, he isn't ready -- he is emotionally immature and stuggling vith life skills and emotional stuff all the time -- he doesn't have 'room' for a lot of the academics.  but so many of his peers (children of moms that i knov parent like i do, good moms) are so advanced academically -- and he tests as gifted butttt is currently doing nothing compared to his peers.

just a momma fit i guess, thansk for the reading suggestions.

[CCJWGM]

I understand and feel your frustrations Momma Aimee! My DD's favorite playmate is reading 2nd grade level and working with circuit boards at age 5. 

One thing I've learned in my homeschool struggles is to trust my instincts.  Even though we aren't Christian I have been falling back on Ecclesiastes 3.1 which sings to my heart.  "To everything there is a season."  It's not the season (in my mind) for academics.  But there will be. What does your instincts say?  Listen to that over what other people say and do. 

Withholding academics will not mean your son is less gifted. In my mind gifted is less about "what can they do" and more about "what is he capable of."  He will shine:  I promise you.  You are a caring loving mama and that is what counts. 

Life skills and dealing with emotions also IS learning.  It's very important learning that many children aren't getting from either their parents or home.  So YEAH!   You are helping him grow into an adult who will be able to handle himself.  I'm having to work a lot with that with my 4 y.o. DS who also starting speech therapy for a disorder.  (I thought it was a delay and it is not).  I personally choose to go private over school for the therapy to take any pressure off of myself.  That's just me though.  :)

To check out what a five and six year old should be doing you should read the waldorf blog parenting passageway.  She has blown me away sometimes with discussing age appropriate expectations.  Societal expectations usually far exceed what a child is actually capable of. 

[Momma Aimee]

Kimbery -- i, personally, look at his therapy and his OT and his ST and all that as his main 'school' for this time.  i see a potential massive fail to try to strech him too far = emotional stuff, academic stuff, yk?

i think about if he sat in a classroom all day (kindy here is all day) -- emotionally could he cope?  no.  so in the end all he'd learn would be fustration and bad habits born of that emotional overload.  Granted ve are not thinking of putting him in the classroom, but it is how i compare it in my mind's eye.

thanks for the link reminder -- i guess that is what i am looking for -- something that discusses the actual 'readyness' of a child at different ages and not what people think.  but i understand kids are all differnt -- the peers BS1 has that are reading and doing 2nd grade spelling lists and math, do so naturally -- they have not been pushed -- both are 'schooling' only due to their desire (and in one case a desperate attempt to keep the child from driving the mom nuts LOL).

I guess i am just feeling the pushg to classroom him this fall, and i guess i kind feel like if he was reading or excelling in stuff HERE then I'd just say "why he is reading, he is doing ______" -- but since he is NOT doing any of that, ....

momma fear and momma gulit

[pigpokey]

Have you had his eyes checked?  Is he refracting and converging normally?

As far as it goes, if he can curl up with you to read a book, he MAY be able to do something like Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons the way we did ... that is to say, we didn't do the comprehension or the writing or follow the entire script.  I did use the script a bit particularly if I was feeling unimaginative.  We would just sit together for 10 or 15 minutes and do a lesson, and that was probably it for home schooling at first.  But it was extremely effective.

[calynde]

I live in Switzerland, and the public schools here do not introduce any academics until first grade...which here means going on 7 years old. Sounds a bit like Waldorf, eh? :-) the logic is that up until that age, there is still too much variation in maturity levels and other abilities. It is seen as counterproductive to present concepts to those children who simply aren't ready for them. Those children who ARE ready earlier cannot be stopped anyway...i liked the tidal wave analogy, lol...so it isn't discouraged AT ALL! It just isn't institutionalized before 7 or so. Of course woth homeschooling, it can be even further individualized!

Everything really does flow so much better and is so much more a pleasure when the timing is right. I would keep life as fun and simple and inspiring for as long as possible...lots of good stories and nature...until it all lines up. Five still seems so little to me, there is really still so much time.