How often shold I nurse to keep up / increase my supply?

[Snapdragon]

I have another thread up about the challenges I am having w- breastfeeding my 13  month old. now, because I don't nurse him very much, my supply is going down. How often should I nurse to keep up the supply? Will  more nursing/ expressing my milk re- increase my supply, or once I don't nurse often enough so that it goes down, will it never return? I would really like to get my supply increased as I want to start nursing him more, but now it is even more challenging to do when I feel like not a lot is coming out.

[cocoanib]

Hi Snapdragon!

 Does he wasnt to nurse more often? Are you offering often?

 How much are you pumping?

 If babe is'nt wanting to nurse often right now, I would pump more to jkeep your supply up. Once your supply drops you can get it back up, but sometimes it takes some work.

My supply dropped a couple of months ago, because I was slacking on my pumping when I was away. To get it back up I added a pumping session and also took fenugreek.

[Snapdragon]

hi cocoanib! I have a whole other thread on my issues so I don't want ot get too into it here- sometimes I offer and am underlying stressed about it and ds refuses, sometimes we have good nursing sessions, sometime sI end the sessions too short or don';t offer enough. I am seriously guilty about it and know I want to nurse more. I am just trying to understand if nursing more from thew point where I am now means that I will increase my supply? I try to express it when I am not nursing- I got a pump but nothing seems to come out when I uses it! IT does when I hand express. ugh. maybe I am using the pump wrong? it is a hand pump- a common brand one madela or something- but not much comes out when I try. When I nurse ds now, I feel like it is even more uncomfortablr and takes a lot longer for me to let down and get a good flow which increases our challenges about nursing.

I want to increase my supply and increase my nursing, but I am not doing that well with it yet.

ETA even as recently as last week a lot more was coming out when I expressed- now there is a lot less, a little will come out and then none.

when ds nurse, when he pops off during the session I check to see how my flow is and there is milk flowing, thank goodness. I just want to increase it all- the nursings and the flow.

[cocoanib]

Okay, I just read your other thread. So sorry you are going through all of this.

I think you should continue trying with the breast pump if you want to keep up your supply. I know that you want to inscrease your nursing feedings, but from the other thread is sounds like that may not be happening enough to keep your supply up. Also, you could give DS more expressed milk instead of the cows milk.  

Make sure you have a good fit with the cups. I notice a big difference of milk flow depending on which size cup I use.

[Snapdragon]

okay I need pumping tips! So far it is not working at all, and I get more milk out if I hand express it but that isn't enough-

so please advise me on how to effectively pump! I got a hand pump, because it was way cheaper and I thought it would fit my needs. I seem to have misplaced the directoins of it already- it seemed pretty straight forard, just put the thing on there and pump.  but it doesn't work for me. And I do still have milk- while not as abundant as before, ds still swallows while nursing and I also see it when I hand express. So are there different cups that come with it? How do I do it? thanks for any advice.

[Erin77]

First of all, I found the hand pump to be really slow and pretty ineffective compared to an electric pump but there were a few things to do to make it work a little better. You are trying to imitate how a baby triggers a letdown and then drinks, so start pumping fast and light at first, hopefully you will feel a letdown in 20-30 seconds. That's how mine works. Then, keep pumping relatively quickly until the milk slows down, then you want to be pumping slowly and at full sucking strength. Think about how the baby "nibbles" a little and then does the slow, deep swallowing. Try to do it rhythmically, and also do breast compressions at this stage. I never had the patience to try to get a second letdown with a hand pump, but the principle is the same- go back to fast and light. Good luck!

ETA: I have a Simplesse hand pump that has a "trigger" that you squeeze. It comes with a 3 oz bottle that you pump in to. Not sure what you have, maybe the instructions are available online?

[Snapdragon]

thank you! I have a manual medela harmony. I had thought I would only need it a little but I am still having such struggles (so sad!) with nursing right now- that I am using it many times a day to try to increase my supply which has dwindled. Today I pumped I think 4 different times (mayb3 3?) and got an ounce each time. that was better than yesterday which is when I posted this- which was my first day of trying it. Yesterday it took me such a long time to get an ounce. Today it came quicker- but still only an ounce.

As for nursing, right now ds's two middle top front teeth are coming down. he wants to bite everything. I offered to nurse him a bunch of times today- and it mostly went that he latched on and sucked maybe 30 seconds, then popped off. so then we switched breasts, same thing. back to other breast, short suck, pops off- etcetera- I think the slow flow is frustrating to him plus he absolutely senses my anxiety. he is so in tune with my feelings the way moms and their babies are. sigh. I am working on it- determined to get past this and get back to better nursing- I really hope! and in the meantime trying to increase my supply with pumping.

thanks for the tips Erin77

ETA after researching I realize that only pumping an ounce is a small am't- tonight  pumped an ounce, too about a 20 min. break, and then pumped another ounce- so I am just going to hope that my supply increases a lot- and of course try to re establish nursing more w- ds. sigh. I really want this to get better!  I am really hoping ds and I can work this out to where nursing is relaxing for both of us again. Before all this trouble I had a really good supply. I never pumped but for the first 9 months or so ds was ebf and then from 6-9 months mostly breastfed. At 9 months his solids increased a lot..

Edited by Snapdragon - 4/25/11 at 7:24pm

[Snapdragon]

what actually is an "average" amount that I could hope to pump in one session at this point?

[cocoanib]

Hmmm, I'm not sure an average amount. I think it's different depending on how often you nurse, supply, etc. For you and ounce seems fine. Especially since you say after a 20 minute break you get another ounce. It will increase as you increase pumping/nursing. Right now, I get 3-4 ounces per breast during a session. There have been times when I averaged more, but that was when DD was younger and eating more.

Erin gave good info about pumping. I use an electric most of the time, but I also have a harmony like you. Just as she said, I start of with the fast short pumps to stimulate let down and then go to full on pumping. I get a good amount like that.

Yes, there are different size cups depending on how big your nipples are. The soft cup that my harmony came with works okay, but when I use one of my bigger cups with it, I get more milk. I have large breasts and large nipples, so I use a bigger cup.  

[Snapdragon]

wow- 3-4 ounces

per breast per session? amazing! I am still at one ounce total and that takes a lot of work! But perhaps you didn't do the dwindling of nursing as I did so your supply never dropped. I am going to keep at it all, and keep at the nursing as much as I can.

[canadianhippie]

I never got the harmony to increase my supply! Which is unfortunate but id go for a rental or buy hospital grade electric double pump, it brought my milk in for my nicu baby! I was recommended to pump after my baby finished feeding for about 10-15 mins everytime he fed

[Snapdragon]

Good to know! how do I find a rental pump? is it through a hospital? Is it the same type that to buy costs about 350 dollars? What does it cost to rent?   Today was a little better with supply- honestly I only nursed him twice- once in the morning and once in the afternoon- though I offerred 4 times. But my little guy is so in tune with me- the two times he refused (he just rolls off my lap and crawls away!) were when I was tense but felt I should offer .  The 

[Snapdragon]

my computer just got weird so I had to do this in 2 posts-    anyway the 2 times he did nurse today were when I was actually calm and really wanted to. My supply felt okay and I forced myself to relax more with the latch thing- if it got uncomfortable I didn't take him off- unless it got bad! but he still nursed for a minute, then took himself off, thenwe switched sides, back and forth. but it was okay. I pumped once today and still only an ounce. I just hand expressed some now- same thing, an ounce- but it came much easier than the pump.  I am going to see how it goes with trying to nurse and hand pump but I am also gonna look into the logistice of a rental electric. thanks for all the advice- I learn so much on here it is amazing

[cocoanib]

Originally Posted by Snapdragon 

wow- 3-4 ounces

per breast per session? amazing! I am still at one ounce total and that takes a lot of work! But perhaps you didn't do the dwindling of nursing as I did so your supply never dropped. I am going to keep at it all, and keep at the nursing as much as I can.

I did have a period where it dropped. I was slacking on my pumping. It was not fun trying to get it back up, but it did with a little help. I made sure not to skip a pump session, offered BF to DD often and added a short session ohn days even when I was'nt away. In addition I took fenugreek. In 2-3 weeks, I was back golden again :)
 

Originally Posted by Snapdragon 

Good to know! how do I find a rental pump? is it through a hospital? Is it the same type that to buy costs about 350 dollars? What does it cost to rent?   Today was a little better with supply- honestly I only nursed him twice- once in the morning and once in the afternoon- though I offerred 4 times. But my little guy is so in tune with me- the two times he refused (he just rolls off my lap and crawls away!) were when I was tense but felt I should offer .  The 

Yay! That's good news :) 

Originally Posted by Snapdragon 

my computer just got weird so I had to do this in 2 posts-    anyway the 2 times he did nurse today were when I was actually calm and really wanted to. My supply felt okay and I forced myself to relax more with the latch thing- if it got uncomfortable I didn't take him off- unless it got bad! but he still nursed for a minute, then took himself off, thenwe switched sides, back and forth. but it was okay. I pumped once today and still only an ounce. I just hand expressed some now- same thing, an ounce- but it came much easier than the pump.  I am going to see how it goes with trying to nurse and hand pump but I am also gonna look into the logistice of a rental electric. thanks for all the advice- I learn so much on here it is amazing

I think you are awesome for continuing to work on this for your son. It will get better.

What a Mama!
 

[Snapdragon]

Today was much better!  I think my determination is working! I had more milk. I actually flet my breatst fill up.,  And niursing went better- no bad match! probably cause I had more milk. yay. I actually felt my breasts fill up with milk today and the one time I expressed it came out more abundant! gonna keep going with this!

[Snapdragon]

my computer is being unfirnedly so I cant edit my typos! I meant no bad latch!