is it wrong to expect child support?

[mandalamama]

specifically: in a case where the father loses custody and visitation rights with his child, indefinitely?

some history: while we were still married but having problems, he told me if i ever left him that he'd rather be homeless than pay a dime of child support. well, that is exactly what has happened!

the reason he's lost custody and visitation rights is that he has a history of domestic violence with both of us, and later he abused my daughter during visitation. from what little contact i've had with him, he feels strongly he shouldn't have to pay any support at all unless he gets joint custody, or liberal visitation.

i am receiving aid from the state because i'm disabled (long-term, started before i ever met him) and without child support, i make just barely enough to survive and stay healthy, but never enough to truly help my daughter thrive and flourish. i don't understand, he says he cares enough to want to visit his daughter, but he doesn't care enough to provide for her in any way!

if my ex gets a job, a report is triggered by his SSN to my state's child support enforcement agency, and he then owes 25% of his pay for support directly to that agency to pay back the aid i've received. however, if he were to work full-time, he would pay enough in child support that i would no longer need state aid and would in fact be getting more than state aid ever pays me.

our guardian-ad-litem says he keeps claiming he's homeless and jobless. last week i found proof online that he has a car, has some kind of apartment or a room, and some money. (i documented everything, of course!) the state agency does what it can, but they only rely on his SSN letting them know when he's employed. even if i provide documentation he has money, a car, a place to live, it doesn't matter without a lawyer, which of course i can't afford. (legal aid in my state doesn't get involved with child support cases.)

i don't get notification of his support hearings until about 2 weeks after they're final. the state agency apologizes for each delay, but that's it. every time he is found to be in arrears (in the 5-figure range) but somehow he talks the court into lowering the arrears down to zero. *boggled*

i'm thinking only of my daughter's future. i don't want a penny in my name, i'd be thrilled if he somehow supported her by paying for activities she'd like to be involved in, so he couldn't accuse me of using the money for  himself. her dad can't see or talk to her until she initiates contact and at this time she is nowhere near ready for any contact. but, he could at least be a fatherly presence in her life, in that he could help her do things she's interested in and really good at, like martial arts, or summer camps, or music or dance lessons. at least she'd have that to look back on when she's an adult.

obviously, she has a lot of things to deal with in therapy, but the lack of support is only exacerbating the distance between them. why can he not see that? when she is ready to contact her dad, not only will she be dealing with the abuse issues ... she'll also be aware that he's hasn't supported her, that he knowingly left us to struggle just to survive. i know that's going to hurt her heart so badly. :(

is it wrong of me to expect my ex to pay child support for our daughter, when i have sole custody and he has no visitation rights?

my head has been spinning lately, thinking about the future ramifications of our barely surviving for her entire childhood. she sees me struggling all alone as a single parent and she's already old enough to resent not having some of the basics that other kids have. am i being selfish or greedy for wanting child support from the father who isn't allowed to be involved in his daughter's life? isn't a father always a father no matter what? or does a woman give up all rights to child support if she takes legal action that separates father and child?

Edited by mandalamama - 4/22/11 at 9:52pm

[enjoythesilence]

You are NOT selfish or greedy to want your daughter to have her needs met.  Regardless of whether he has contact with her, he still helped make her, and is responsible to contribute to her financially. 

[Super~Single~Mama]

In my state (could be different in yours) if a father loses visitation due to his own actions, he is still responsible for child support.  And he has to pay until the child is 21, just like anyone else.  If he doesn't pay, it can be taken out of his paycheck.

You are not being selfish, he has a financial obligation towards his child, even though he can't be around her.

[sparklefairy]

No, I don't think it's wrong to expect a man to support his child. I think it's "wrong" to eat yourself up thinking about how things "should" be relative to how they are. An idea for activities: my city recreation department grants free and reduced status to people who meet some financial qualifications for taking classes through the city.

[bananabee]

No, it's not wrong! And it's not wrong to use the money toward household necessities and food. Who cares what he thinks? He abused you and her, so obviously he does not care about her well-being. Why would you want to make sure he doesn't get mad over what you use the money for? It's not his decision anymore, and that's the choice he made - to abuse you both and reap the consequences. You're taking care of her, you're involved in her everyday life, and you know her the way a parent should. I would not think twice about him being angry at you. He's already mad that he didn't get his way. The only reason I'd drop the issue would be if I was worried he'd be stalking us or trying to physically or psychologically hurt us. Also, chances are he's not really homeless, but that it's just what he wants people to think so he doesn't have to pay.

[One_Girl]

I don't think it is wrong to expect support, the courts still expect it in my state no matter what the visitation schedule is.  My biological father was allowed no contact with us and still had to pay support throughout our childhood.  I think that relying on support coming just because there is an order in place would be foolish given his history of not paying, but to expect that he will meet his legal obligations is not expecting to much as long as you keep reality in mind and aren't expecting it so much that you rely on it.  My dd's grandma is only now getting support for her grown children because her ex tried to dodge it most of their lives.  He inherited money that went straight to her and the rest comes out of his social security money. 

[MissLotus]

If he lost visitation rights, it was due to his own actions.  Those are simply the consequences - and they do NOT excuse him from being a deadbeat!  If anything, paying support is the very least he can do, considering what he's put you and your children through.   

You and your children should not be punished financially simply because you're protecting them from abuse!  And you never need to tell him how you spend the money, it's absolutely none of his business, as long as your children are provided for.  I hope that at this point you are not engaging in conversation with him, unless strictly necessary because it sounds very unhealthy. If you have a lawyer I would let the lawyer deal with him, and let the courts do whatever they need to ensure that he lives up to his financial responsibility.

[lilyka]

Heck yeah he should be paying child support.  Visitation and child support are not really related in any states I know of.  he could terminate his parental rights and still owe support.  You make a child, you support that child.  end of story.

[mandalamama]

thank you, that's what i thought, but i couldn't find info specific to this type of case. since i receive state aid, the state's child support enforcement agency investigates and prosecutes. unless i did have a lawyer, but like i said, legal aid in my state doesn't do child support cases (too many of them, i bet).

strange coincidence - today i got a call from a finance agency, wanting money for his car! they couldn't say if i was put on as just a contact, or as a co-signer, since they're just collecting. they did let me know what kind of car it is, so i gave that information to the child support enforcement agency as well.

it drives me nuts that my girl has a big family, yet we struggle, alone. other moms here in housing have families helping out, quite a few get child support even if it's not enough to live elsewhere. but her dad did tell me - after we were married - that he was the black sheep of his family. i just wish that didn't rub off on my girl! she deserves a decent life. i never give up! but i am just so tired.

[enjoythesilence]

Originally Posted by mandalamama 

it drives me nuts that my girl has a big family, yet we struggle, alone. other moms here in housing have families helping out, quite a few get child support even if it's not enough to live elsewhere. but her dad did tell me - after we were married - that he was the black sheep of his family. i just wish that didn't rub off on my girl! she deserves a decent life. i never give up! but i am just so tired.